Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan

TylerDurden

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VIDEO: http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=84561&videoChannel=74

Jun. 13 - Japanese company Genepax presents its eco-friendly car that runs on nothing but water.

The car has an energy generator that extracts hydrogen from water that is poured into the car's tank. The generator then releases electrons that produce electric power to run the car. Genepax, the company that invented the technology, aims to collaborate with Japanese manufacturers to mass produce it.

SOUNDBITE: Kiyoshi Hirasawa, CEO, Genepax.

Michelle Carlile-Alkhouri reports.
 
Uhm... driven by an unkillable, mass serial murdering movie star? Japanese culture sure can be odd at times. :?:

:mrgreen:
 
pwbset said:
Uhm... driven by an unkillable, mass serial murdering movie star? Japanese culture sure can be odd at times.

Yeah, not sure if engadget member chopped it or what (posted Fri 13th)... :?

Reuters report is real, tho.

:D
 
I have problems with it too. Especially this part: "Jun. 13 - Japanese company Genepax presents its eco-friendly car that runs on nothing but water. The car has an energy generator that extracts hydrogen from water that is poured into the car's tank." I call bullsh*t!

They need to please explain the "energy generator" and what powers it ..water too? I doubt that! Most likely gasoline or probably diesel. Therefore, no advance at all.


At any rate, why not make a bigger "energy generator" and run the car on that and forget the electrolosis part?
 
Great. Now water is going to be $5/gal. :shock:

I've heard stories about this water car for years. I have no clue how it's supposed to work without violating the laws of physics.
 
Defies the laws of thermodynamics. Something for nothing you CAN NOT GET!
 
Some more info via the interweb:

Genepax Co Ltd explained the technologies used in its new fuel cell system "Water Energy System (WES)," which uses water as a fuel and does not emit CO2.

The system can generate power just by supplying water and air to the fuel and air electrodes, respectively, the company said at the press conference, which took place June 12, 2008, at the Osaka Assembly Hall.

The basic power generation mechanism of the new system is similar to that of a normal fuel cell, which uses hydrogen as a fuel. According to Genepax, the main feature of the new system is that it uses the company's membrane electrode assembly (MEA), which contains a material capable of breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen through a chemical reaction.

Though the company did not reveal the details, it "succeeded in adopting a well-known process to produce hydrogen from water to the MEA," said Hirasawa Kiyoshi, the company's president. This process is allegedly similar to the mechanism that produces hydrogen by a reaction of metal hydride and water. But compared with the existing method, the new process is expected to produce hydrogen from water for longer time, the company said.

With the new process, the cell needs only water and air, eliminating the need for a hydrogen reformer and high-pressure hydrogen tank. Moreover, the MEA requires no special catalysts, and the required amount of rare metals such as platinum is almost the same as that of existing systems, Genepax said.

Unlike the direct methanol fuel cell (DMFC), which uses methanol as a fuel, the new system does not emit CO2. In addition, it is expected to have a longer life because catalyst degradation (poisoning) caused by CO does not occur on the fuel electrode side. As it has only been slightly more than a year since the company completed the prototype, it plans to collect more data on the product life.

At the conference, Genepax unveiled a fuel cell stack with a rated output of 120W and a fuel cell system with a rated output of 300W. In the demonstration, the 120W fuel cell stack was first supplied with water by using a dry-cell battery operated pump. After power was generated, it was operated as a passive system with the pump turned off.

This time, the voltage of the fuel cell stack was 25-30V. Because the stack is composed of 40 cells connected in series, it is expected that the output per cell is 3W or higher, the voltage is about 0.5-0.7V, and the current is about 6-7A. The power density is likely to be not less than 30mW/cm2 because the reaction area of the cell is 10 x 10 cm.

Meanwhile, the 300W fuel cell system is an active system, which supplies water and air with a pump. In the demonstration, Genepax powered the TV and the lighting equipment with a lead-acid battery charged by using the system. In addition, the 300W system was mounted in the luggage room of a compact electric vehicle "Reva" manufactured by Takeoka Mini Car Products Co Ltd, and the vehicle was actually driven by the system.

Genepax initially planned to develop a 500W system, but failed to procure the materials for MEA in time and ended up in making a 300W system.

For the future, the company intends to provide 1kw-class generation systems for use in electric vehicles and houses. Instead of driving electric vehicles with this system alone, the company expects to use it as a generator to charge the secondary battery used in electric vehicles.

Although the production cost is currently about ¥2,000,000 (US$18,522), it can be reduced to ¥500,000 or lower if Genepax succeeds in mass production. The company believes that its fuel cell system can compete with residential solar cell systems if the cost can be reduced to this level.



Source: http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080613/153276/
 

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EMF said:
Some more info via the interweb:
...
Genepax Co Ltd explained the technologies used in its new fuel cell system "Water Energy System (WES)," which uses water as a fuel and does not emit CO2.

The system can generate power just by supplying water and air to the fuel and air electrodes, respectively, the company said at the press conference, which took place June 12, 2008, at the Osaka Assembly Hall.
...
Lots of words, EMF, but no CLARITY! The sentence immediately above is a clear as mud! What are the "fuel and air electrodes". Unless, I am mistaken, more energy must be expended in splitting the hydrogen and oxygen in water than will be gained by any subsequent process extracting energy from recombining them. Thermodynamics - you don't get something for nothing!
 
I think the argument with thermodynamics that everyone brings to table could be false. No one says petroleum is against the laws of thermodynamics because you can get energy from burning it either. And the company claims to have found a CHEMICAL way to separate water into hydrogen and air. Who knows?
 
This will be VERY interesting as long as it is not another cold fusion. Hydrogen as a fuel has its inconveniences, yes, but the real problem with it, and many other technologies is the COST, to crack it out of hydrocarbons, or do electrolysis. I have thought for some time that some type of cheap chemical way to bust the water into gas would be world saving technology. Chemical reactions do not break the laws of thermodynamics. The power has to come from somewhere, but none of the info here says where. But chemical reactions create more heat than they need to keep going all the time. Scale this up, and put it on powerplants on the mississippi river. Or turn the sewer effluent into hydrogen to run the citys power plant. The way ev's are developing, we won't need fuel cells, just clean electricity.
 
petroleum is at a higher potential energy than the chemicals after its combustion, water is at a lower potential energy than hydrogen and oxygen, water is the byproduct of hydrogen and oxygen burning. turning water into hydrogen and oxygen is an endothermic reaction, it takes energy to do, turning gasoline into CO2 and H2O is an exothermic reaction, it releases energy. petroleum isn't magic, it took energy to make it, millions of years deep underground with enormous pressure and temperature with dead animal and plant matter was what it took to make it. actually the rel energy source for petroleum is the sun, the molecules that make up the bodies of the plants and animals that decayed into oil all were formed by energy originating from the sun, plants use the sun directly, and animals eat the plants, and other animals eat those animals. so really when we burn oil, we are restoring the atmosphere to the level of CO2 there was when the dinosaurs lived since the plants built themselves from CO2 in the air and water.
 
Exactly. Which is why i was saying the energy has to come from somewhere. Reading again, they mention somthing about nickel hydride. Maybe the reaction is consuming that? Something HAS to be going away here or it does violate the laws of thermodynamics. Even if it is electryolysis dressed up to look pretty, a new way to make that reaction take less energy would still be a great thing.
 
paultrafalgar said:
EMF said:
Some more info via the interweb:
...
Genepax Co Ltd explained the technologies used in its new fuel cell system "Water Energy System (WES)," which uses water as a fuel and does not emit CO2.

The system can generate power just by supplying water and air to the fuel and air electrodes, respectively, the company said at the press conference, which took place June 12, 2008, at the Osaka Assembly Hall.
...
Lots of words, EMF, but no CLARITY! The sentence immediately above is a clear as mud! What are the "fuel and air electrodes". Unless, I am mistaken, more energy must be expended in splitting the hydrogen and oxygen in water than will be gained by any subsequent process extracting energy from recombining them. Thermodynamics - you don't get something for nothing!

Yes, I agree- but it is still a bit more info. I figured it still needed gas or diesel and this does not refute that - as an outside power source is required even for the 300 watt system, to maintain a current flow. Also, the car is just a mockup or something that they used to haul thier demo materials in as they have not created anything even colse to powering a e-tricycle, let alone a car. Looks like they are trolling for "investors". A lot more info is neeeded.
 
If they were serious about producing someting that worked they would address the basic points raised above. But why bother when you can get gullible news media to give you publicity and even more gullible investors throw loads of money at you. Strip away the alt tech dressing and the substance of it is just another form of advanced fee fraud.
 
Duhh, i had the idea the car at least rolled at 2 mph or something. They really are looking to gather some gullible investors.
 
The point is that WATER IS NOT THE FUEL! If they use nickel (or other) hydrides THAT is the fuel. And it may be a viable way of driving a car to use energy derived elsewhere to make a fuel, but I have the deepest suspicion of a manufacturer who says his car is fueled by water.
 
yes its simply not in any way possible to use water as a fuel source, unless its nuclear fusion, which i don't think is going to happen in a vehicle any time soon.
 
I agree, the nickel or something has to be consumed, or enegry added at some point some how. And you have to look at the cost of all of it. Its fun to say my bike takes me to work and back for a dime, but if I pro rate the ping battery, its more like a buck. Still cheaper than a gallon of gas, but its a big difference to count the total cost. For the car, its 15 bucks. But if the hydrogen IS produced cheaper than current methods, like cracking it out of oil, then it is still a valuable tool for the future. Electrolysis is pretty expensive.
 
Or we can start using ammonia (NH3) as fuel. Much easier to store than H2 and no COx emissions.
 
This Danish company is developing that technology:
http://www.amminex.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=71&Itemid=110
 
NOT a water powered car!!!!!!!!!!!! :evil:
As it says in the URL you gave:
"used as a fuel additive in a standard gasoline or diesel engine"
 
Ahhhh, i missed that. We kicked that horse dead in another thread allready.
 
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