which rear 36v 250w hub motor for mountain bike?

[oded]

looking to convert my full suspension Schwinn 405 comp mountain bike.
they have hydraulic disc brakes. 135 rear fork size.

like to use a small rear geared hub motor with pedal assist only, and a very light 10s 5000 mah lipo.
I like these light conversions for some added power without loosing the bike experience (and keep it legal).

these are my final options, wanted to hear your recommendations:
1. GBK 100R
http://www.greenbikekit.com/gbk-100r-36v-rear-hub-motors.html

2. GBK 100CST (is the cassette freewheel nesecary?) -
http://www.greenbikekit.com/e-bike-cassette-freewheel-hub-motor-36v-250w-light-weight-high-speed.html

3. FDM mini motor (1:6.28 gearing?) -
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/FREE-SHIPPING-ebike-motor-Brushless-Motor-24V-36V-180W-250W-for-Rear-Wheel-e-bike/332222_1894500832.html

I would like to stick with those companies because of past experience & shipping costs.

thanks.

 

[motomech]

None of the above.
If you use the Cute CST, you can retain your 8-speed cassette and it will shift just like it does now.
If you go with a non CST, you will need to buy a heavy DNP free wheel that probably won't shift as nice.
GBK only offers the Q100 CST in a slow(201) and fast wind (328). What you want with 10S and 26" wheel is a medium wind(260).
The Q100 (260) on 10S in a 26" wheel will top out around 20 mph. The 328 will do 22 mph, but it will be hard on the controller and hills may over-heat it.
BMS Battery has the Q100 CST (260) and I would suggest you mate it with the SO6S sine-wave controller and SLCD-3 display.
The SLCD-3 is very neat and offers among other things, 5 level assist adjustment. A sine-wave controller with that motor will be dead silent,
a square-wave will not be nearly as quiet.
If you have the room to mount it, you could up-grade to the S12S controller and adjust down the current in PAS.
I.M.O., A CST rear mated to a sine-wave and 5-level display is the best mini-motor combo available.

 

[motomech]

The third motor looks like a MXUS(it would be a 260 wind), but the info from that vendor is sketchy. MXUS motors are very good, but once again, I would recommend the CST version.
It's available in the MXUS . search Aliexpress. And again, I would recommend their sine-wave controller and 5-level assist display

 

[oded]

Very usefull information. Thanks.
Shipping cost from bmsbattery is extremely high. I am limited to the two companies i linked ( GBK & Aliexpress FDM).

I will be using the con63 sinewave controller with their lcd display -
http://www.greenbikekit.com/250w-brushless-e-bike-controller-lcd-display.html

Looking for light assistance, not much more than that.

How important is it using a freewheel cassette. Biking without is a major flaw?

Thanks again

 

[docnjoj]

Even though I am having a bit of difficulty with mine, the Xiongda 2 speed seems very good for off road riding. It might be worth reading about it.
otherDoc

 

[athletic91]

speaking of the the cute cat , u will need a special cassette tool due to the protruding axle. A normal cassette tool won't fit

 

[oded]

speaking of the the cute cat , u will need a special cassette tool due to the protruding axle. A normal cassette tool won't fit

That's important to know, but not very familiar with the mechanical details - "cute cat" is the GBK CST motor? For the other motors i won't be needing the cassette tool?

 

[d8veh]

Rhe Q100 was originally called Cute by BMSbattery. The GBK motors are the same as the BMSB ones,. The cassette version the same as the Q100C is the GBK 100CST. It's also the same as the Elifebike.com QQ M140R CST. Note that ELfB have listed the weight incorrectly.

This motor doesn't have a lot of torque, so the 328 rpm version is unsuitable for 26" wheels. You need the 201 rpm version, which does about 15 mph. If you want more, you need to increase the voltage to 12S, which gives it a bit more pep.

 

[cwah]

d8veh would you still recommend the Q100H over the Xiondga?

 

[oded]

Thanks.
As much as i like the GBK CST, it requires a special cassete tool and 8 gear cassette freewheel which GBK do not sell.

If settling on the q100 without cassete only means i'll have 21 (7 x 3) gears and not 24, so be it.

Am i missing something here?

 

[motomech]

With the CST, you use the cassette that is on your bike NOW and install it on the motor.
Cassette-slide on to splines.
Free wheel-screw on.
You will need to buy cassette retainer removal tool available in any bike store.

 

[oded]

Thanks for clearing that out for me. Hub motor with cassette it is than.

 

[athletic91]

With the CST, you use the cassette that is on your bike NOW and install it on the motor.
Cassette-slide on to splines.
Free wheel-screw on.
You will need to buy cassette retainer removal tool available in any bike store.

Be careful about the cassette tool to buy due to the protruding axle of the cute cst motor


This won't work .
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/sg/en/x-tools-cassette-lockring-tool/rp-prod10183

This should work.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/sg/en/park-tool-cassette-lockring-tool-fr5/rp-prod7213

 

[athletic91]

just some speed advice from my experience on the cute 100 cst on 26" wheels

Trottle only speed
201rpm 10s 28km/h
201rpm 13s 35km/h
328rpm 10s ??

Since you are on 10s maybe you like to help me take the risk and try the 328rpm to check the top speed?

 

[d8veh]

Don't be tempted to go for speed. These motors don't have enough torque. You only end up melting your motor and/or controller.

The CST version is actually smaller than the standard Q100 and Q100H. If you need good torque, say for off-road use, it might be better to go with the Q100H. The Q100CST is OK for tarmac use.

Here's a comparison. Q100CST on the left:

 

[d8veh]

d8veh would you still recommend the Q100H over the Xiondga?

No. The Xiongda has probably double the torque in low gear, and the Xiongda is a bigger motor, so more power potential. It runs happily at 20A. I don't know what the limit is for the Q100H. I only tried it with 15A, and I've not heard of anybody that's pushed it to the limit.

 

[motomech]

just some speed advice from my experience on the cute 100 cst on 26" wheels

Trottle only speed
201rpm 10s 28km/h
201rpm 13s 35km/h
328rpm 10s ??

Since you are on 10s maybe you like to help me take the risk and try the 328rpm to check the top speed?

I used 10S last nite.
CST 328 in a 24"wheel=20 mph.
But I weigh 250 lb.s.
In 26"" wheel w\ lighter rider=21 to 22 mph.

side note; two 328's on 10S=25 mph.

 

[oded]

Ended up ordering a compromise - 261rpm motor from elifebike http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2011-3Y-12GE.4Q2HX
They call it m100

 

[d8veh]

Ended up ordering a compromise - 261rpm motor from elifebike http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2011-3Y-12GE.4Q2HX
They call it m100

I believe that that one is their name for the BMSB Q100H. What are you doing for controller and battery?

 

[oded]

I plan on getting the GBK sine wave controller CON63 with LCD -
http://www.greenbikekit.com/250w-brushless-e-bike-controller-lcd-display.html

I like the idea of the "fake" torque sensing they advertise for this controller. if you think it's not worth it, than I'll go with one of FDM's (Aliexpress) controllers, as their shipping times are faster (they have a deadline in which they have to provide a tracking number, or the customer gets a refund. with other sites, you can pay for a 4 days delivery, but it takes 3 weeks for the package to be sent...).
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/E-bike-controller/332222_254057727.html

 

[motomech]

That's the motor I was reffering to, but I was mistaken about the model.
The sine wave controller you linked should be fine. It is low power, so it should low stress on the system.
On a 36V battery, you should see about 20 Mph or 32 Kph.
You will need to buy a free wheel, but if you want to be able to pedal along up to top speed, it will have to be a DNP with an 11 tooth low gear. not the ones ELB or GBK sell.
there are some other little things you will need, but not knowing what bike you have and if you intend to use PAS, makes it difficult to recommend them.

 

[bowlofsalad]

just some speed advice from my experience on the cute 100 cst on 26" wheels

Trottle only speed
201rpm 10s 28km/h
201rpm 13s 35km/h
328rpm 10s ??

Since you are on 10s maybe you like to help me take the risk and try the 328rpm to check the top speed?

I actually have been pretty confused on the whole RPM thing. http://www.advanced-ev.com/Calculators/TireSize/ This website has a tool that might help answer that question. I honestly don't know if I am doing it correctly, but I put 1 for the differential ratio.

How I figure out speed with other voltages is pretty simple. Say the motor is labeled 201rpm at 36v. I take a new voltage that I'd be using, and divide it by 36. For illustration, lets use 52v. 52/36=1.44. I then multiply the RPM of the motor by 1.44, lets use the 201 I mentioned a moment ago. This gives us 289.44 or 289RPM, I punch that into that websites calculator I listed above, and instead of a top speed of 15.6mph with an RPM of 201 I get 22.4 with an RPM of 289.

Please, if anyone has corrections to this, share.

I hope this isn't too off topic or derailing to this thread.

@D8veh Are you saying the m100 at elifebike.com is the same hub as a Q100H sold at bmsbattery.com?

 

[motomech]

Yes, it's the same motor.
A "201"wind is really 238 rpm @ 36V
A 260"" is 260, and
a "328" is really 287 rpm @ 36V.
You really don't need to calculate the speeds. they are well known here.
A "201" @ 36V in a 26 "wheel will top out around 17 to 18 mph.

 

[oded]

Eventually i found the 260RPM motor you recommended. Shipping was reasonable, so I went for it.

Actually, this my 3rd bike conversion. This one goes into the rear wheel of my schwinn
405 comp mountain bike. Full suspension, hydraulic disc brakes, 26 wheels.

Plan to use PAS only for some trail biking.
Will be using a 10s 5000mah lipo from hobbyking. Would like as much as possible to make them look "un-electric" as possible to the unprofessional eye.

What got me started was a test ride on the KTM erace electric MTB. Wow, what a ride.

http://www.schwinn-bikes.cz/images/schwinn/catalogues/schwinn_kola2009/405-COMP_1_big.jpg

 

[motomech]

I don't use PAS off-road because of pedal strikes, but my pedal clearance is a little low.
But if you use it, it is necessary to have an Ebrake, which usually involves a reed switch and a home make bracket.
You probably know this, but if you want to add a throttle, many of us put it on the left, leaving the right hand to shift gears.
Also, I believe to "H" motor will take more Amps than 15A, enhancing it's climbing ability.
Depending on your priority;
The Sine-wave is nicer on the street and 15A is plenty for light assist.
Off-road, more Amps might be better.
I have ridden my mountain bikes on trails with a MXUS(little stronger than the "H") and unless I can pedal up them, I stay off the steeper trails.
And one needs to be careful of the plastic gears, no jumps or drop-offs. The funny thing is, it's possible to feel the gears stressing and back off.
I guess what I'm saying is, sometimes it's good to order some extras with BMNSB\ELB\GBK orders because getting one item later on is expensive because of shipping. Although, now you can get some stuff from them on Ebay.
Anyhow, should be a cool bike when finished.