X5304 + 36v 20ah. Distance calculations

[RayB]

Hi,

I was considering an RC setup initially but being in an area where I have to ship in anything at great expense I am thinking of opting for a non fiddly system with readily available replacement parts should I ever need.

Anyhow, I am curious if anyone knows of how I can estimate potential distance abilities with the following:

Crystalyte 5304, LiPo 36v 20ah, 700c, mostly flat commute. I aim to get 20 miles out of the equipment and am fine with a 25 mph consistent speed.

Any ideas are greatly appreciated.

 

[Zoot Katz]

http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_batteries.php
How to Choose a Pack

The considerations that affect your battery pack choice include range, current capability, geometry, weight, and budget. The range that a particular battery pack will give is easy to estimate if you know approximately how many watt-hours per kilometre you use.

To calculate the range for a battery, multiply the battery voltage by the amp-hours to get the total watt-hours, a measure of energy. For instance, a 36V 8Ah battery has 36*8 = 288 watt-hours, roughly. Therefore, based on an average 10Wh / km of energy usage, you could expect a reasonable range of 288/10 ~ 29 km. If you don't pedal much, are traveling at high speeds, or hauling a load, then the actual range could drop to less than half of this value. On the other hand, if you only use the assistance when needed you could quite reasonably double this range.

The current handling capability of the batteries is a fairly important consideration, as ebikes put more demand on cells than the manufacturer intended. The result is a lower cycle life before the pack starts to wear out. All of the batteries we stock can be used with 20A controllers without trouble. With the higher current 35A motor controllers, the smaller 8Ah packs will be OK at handling this current as a peak, but if you have a motor setup that draws high current continuously then you will certainly have reduced battery life. In these situations it is recommended to either put two packs in parallel, or use a single higher capacity battery like the 18Ah NiMH.

My 5304 is running 48v 18Ah NiMH with a 48A controller. The average for 40 battery cycles has been ~85 km between charges. I planned for sixty kilometers with a bit of headroom for picking up passengers. I average around 13Wh/mile.

I pedal but don't maintain anywhere near 25 mph in the city. That's more like WOT on the flats without traffic and without pedalling.
If your bike is geared tall enough, you can maintain 25 mph on the flats by pulling some chain and lightly using the throttle to overcome the drag, little rollers and wind resistance to extend your range. Are you able to charge at work?

Check the justin_le thread "Cross-Canada by Ebike" and download the xls spreadsheets to get an idea of what a loaded 5304 will do on 36V.

 

[swbluto]

See my sig.

 

[dogman dan]

you might be better off with a smaller motor for the battery, unless you have chosen a higher c rate battery like a headway. A 20 amp controller will really help if you choose a big motor to go with a duct tape lifepo4. A nine continents or clyte, or aotema if you want front hub would match a duct tape lifepo4 better. At similar speeds, 23mph, or 25 with pedaling, I get 23 miles out of my 36v 20 ah battery. I like to just call it one amp hour per mile since you don't want to drain the pack to cutoff every singe ride anyway.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Just curious, why are you going for a Big heavy motor if you're looking for distance?

a 5304 on 36 volts is wasted expense and weight. you could get similar preformance from a 40x motor on 48 volts, save 10 pounds in weight, and run farther on the same battery. Not to mention it would be a couple hundred $$ less
I think a Clyte 409 on 48 volts would have within one pound the same torque, and maybe a little more speed.

BTW, a 5304 on 26 volts would only do about 20-21 mph
A 408 on 48 volts would do 25mph+

 

[dogman dan]

In my climate at least, a similar motor run at 20 amps 36v for long enough gets pretty hot. Like Justin on his ride across canada, underpowering a big motor might be the key to long hard rides without overheating the motor.

But for a 20 mile flat commute, most motors will do it fine, no need for the 5304. Even at 36v my atoema will easily do 23 mph for 23 miles, including at least 500' of hills. And heat will not be an issue unless its 20 miles uphill all the way. Same would be true of a 9 continents or a 407 clyte. Maybe he wants the big motor for a bigger battery to come later.

 

[RayB]

Thanks everyone.

It is good to get some advice. I think you are all right about the 5x motor. I was going for that as I was under the impression the build quality may of been a little bit better plus the power.

So,

I recokon I could get an ok distance, speed and power from everyones recommended

48v, 20ah lipo4 battery
408 crystallyte motor
35a controller

This is in a 700c wheel and if I am going for the smaller motor I will probably now get a front wheel model. Come to think of it, it may be too late for
me to change the battery. Does everyone reckon the 36v 20ah battery on the 408 would also be ok?

Thanks for all the help!!

Ray

 

[dnmun]

and there are geared hubmotors too, ezee from justin, 9 continents has a geared motor, bafang from knuckles, bmc is more expensive, and dogman is testing a fusin motor now too. call the battery seller and ask if you wanna change your order, it may not have shipped. i would prefer 48 myself, and in fact don't expect to ever run 36V, started at 48V. going to 72V eventually.

 

[dogman dan]

36v will be fine if you like slower speeds, like 20 mph, and the hills are not so steep. With my aotema motor, I find 7% grades go fine with 36v. I can climb at least 15 mph. Above that, like 10%, it will still go up it, but I have to pedal a lot. 48v will have a lot better snap off the line, but nothing wrong with 36 if you don't need to go real fast or climb a super hard hill. At 36v, you can still kinda argue that the bike is not a moped in the US. At 48v, you are not a bicycle in most of the world unless the controller has a very low amp limit. Much of the US, the cops don't care, but in some places it matters.

 

[RayB]

Thanks again,

I have tried to change my order but it seems to be to late. So, I ordered another 408 .. then I can just sell on the X5 if I dont end up using it for anything else.

Cheers....