Your thoughts on a "new" refurbished computer

[markz]

I think the best, most reasonable option is to buy a refurbished desktop with Windows 7 Pro 64 bit.
I found in my local physical store they sell W7 for $180. Online Amazon $100, and some shaddy character out of Eastern Europe is selling for $30.
I did find a online reputable store selling for $100, but it was sold the next day. Bestbuy store is all out, online and in store.

There were just tons and tons of refurbished Dell Optiplex computers with some HP.

I ran across these two systems that look interesting, both Lenovo.
Lenovo Think Centre M91P Small (4480) release date Nov 8, 2011.
I believe this to be a little smaller case, so I dont know if my current 600W PSU or current graphics can be swapped out.
This system is W7 Pro 64 bit, i5 Quad Core 2400S 2.5Ghz, 4G DDR3 with 500GB HD, DVDRW, WIFI

Lenovo M90/M90P.
The m90 is looks like a regular ATX case.
Hopefully my current 600PSU and current Video GTX can be swapped out on the M90, dunno about the SFF M91P.
Core i5 3.2 GHz Dual Core (LGA 1156), 4 GB 250 GB HDD Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit
Internal 2x3.5", External 1x3.5" and 2x5.25"
Slots - 2 PCI slots fulll height, 1 PCI-e x1 full height, 1 PCI-e x16 full height
10/100/1000 Ethernet, better then my 10.


Both are DDR3 1033, which is an upgrade from my DDR2. I can easily upgrade the ram, and its cheap. Both are the 1333 variety.
Both are Win 7 Pro 64 bit (Some say - The best o/s ever), which is an upgrade from Vista (One of the worst o/s ever)
The computer release dates bring me past the Sata III release date of July 2008, so I can install a SSD-HD at SATA III speeds 6gbps.

What do you guys think? Basically both the same, ones dual core, others quad core. I am leaning towards the M90/M90P, because its a larger case. The case just sits under the desk, out of site. My thinking is its easy to upgrade things with a regular ATX case.

All I will have to do, and is the trickiest part for me to do, is to do a true copy of the stock HD to a SDD-HD, boot from SDD-HD, and do an image copy for backup on a USB memory stick, or just leave the HD alone, buy a 1TB. I think the 1TB might be too big, take more time to search. Would it help if I partition the 1TB in 4 partitions, 250GB each? We literally only use 180GB.

 

[DAND214]

I bought my Lenovo Think center. I5 3.33 6 gb ram 500 gb hdd with Win 7 pro 64bit almost a year ago, refurb for 195. runs great with no problems.
Bought thru Amazon.

 

[markz]

I got another question, if I leave my Vista computer hooked up over WiFi Ethernet 10 link, buy the refurbished Lenovo, is it then possible to use any software or program on the Vista,like Office Home & Office 2007, on the Lenovo?

I have Windows Vista Home Premium. So I CAN NOT be on the Lenovo, and connect to Vista using MS feature. Vice-Versa would work. So what about this service/program? gotomypc.com $10/m though
This might work, Method 2 of 5: Windows Vista, 7, or 8 It will save me $199 for Microsoft Office Home & Student 2013.

Connect the two computers using a crossover cable. At least one of the computers being connected should be using Windows Vista, 7, or 8.

Open the Network and Sharing Center. If you're connecting a Windows 7 and Windows Vista computer together, use Windows 7 to perform these tasks.

Click the Start button, and then click Control Panel. In the search box, type "network," and then click on Network and Sharing Center.

Link

Notes

You can't use Remote Desktop Connection to connect to computers running Windows Vista Starter, Windows Vista Home Basic, Windows Vista Home Basic N, or Windows Vista Home Premium. You can, however, connect from those editions of Windows Vista to computers running other versions of Windows.

You can't use Remote Desktop Connection to connect to computers running Windows XP Home Edition.

 

[mark5]

To remote into Vista install on Vista TeamViewer, one of the VNC servers, or RDP Wrapper.

 

[markz]

Thanks Mark5, I looked at your recommendation and the "VNC Servers" looks good. This will save me an extra $200 easily!
Is this the main one? RealVNC

 

[mark5]

You could use RealVNC. Or google "vnc comparison" for others. There are lots. Just make sure it's free because there's no point in paying for it.

If you use the Chrome browser, also look up the "chrome remote desktop" addon.

 

[markz]

Would a hardwire Cross-Over Cable, from NIC to NIC work, to be able to access software on Vista, using W7?
or is it just easier to use the VPN, I got two in mind, wikipedia has an extensive list, I just looked for drag and drop, file transfer. Dunno about encription, "AES-256" listed on some, "SSL, TLS" listed on others, and "SSL, SSH".

There is lots of stuff here to research, one thing leads into another.

 

[mark5]

Try a regular cable, before crossover, first. Modern network controllers are supposed to be smart enough to adapt. But why is crossover needed at all--won't all your PCs just go through your router?

RDP Wrapper is a modification to make Vista Home allow RDP connections into it.

Also there's free Microsoft Office Online through your browser like Google Docs ( https://www.office.com/ choose the icons under "No install required." ) but I probably already told you that before.

 

[markz]

Mark5, you probably did, but I assumed "free" was the Office 360, or like the "free" Windows 10 upgrade scam Microsoft tries to pull. Or maybe I thought it was a free trial period. I did find the website but I am always thinking Microsoft is pulling something shady. I am not used to MS giving stuff away for free, to me I think there must be a catch.

A lot of things have changed over time, and I am not as computer savvy as I once was.

I am choosing Lenovo (IBM) over Dell and HP. However the system I picked I think is from 2010 because it has i5 Intel 3.2Ghz CPU (Still cant figure out if its 2 core or 4 core on the specs it does list either), I am aiming for the highest speed 2 core CPU I can find, this one is a LGA 1156. It has DDR3 1333MHz ram with 4 DIMM slots, so its cheap to upgrade and the system has 10M/100M/1000M Gigabit Ethernet. The specs do not hint at the SATA speed (I / II / III), but it can have SSD HD.

The confusing thing is Lenovo has the same computer systems in different cases. I have no need for small or compact when I have a 2.5' high x 3 to 3.5' wide x 2.5' deep space under the "L" shaped desk. So there is enough room there to have my current HP from 2007/2008 and have it hardwired to use Office 2007, even Windows Mail icon on desktop (not available with Windows 7). Maybe too I can use the HP to download shady program which may contain virus', then install and use the Sandbox program. I've been pondering using it as a server and learning about that, but I am reluctant.

OK I just learned I can buy a PCI-e x1 or plain PCI internal card to obtain USB 3.0, which is good.
I dont know if SYBA is any good.
I will also buy some cheap DDR3 1333Mhz RAM, up it from 4GB ($30) to 8 or 12GB.

 

[marty]

Forget about Microsoft Office. Use
https://www.libreoffice.org/
Free and as good or better then Microsoft.

 

[markz]

Do you smell that?

It smells like Vista, DDR2 Ram, AMD A2+ being tossed into the city gutter drain like a washed up "Lady of the Night" and a breath of "No Crashing Program Windows" Windows 7 sweeping in for the new outlook on computing. Just got to remember to image the drive first thing. Then I wonder if when I download free trials for programs (like Malwarebytes and others) and do a TOR and/or VPN if that bypasses the time lapse?

 

[markz]

I am getting really upset that Mozilla Firefox is causing havoc, takes forever to resolve DNS (I think thats what its called, where it searches and searches and searches and searches) plus I get "Server not found" constantly when I know for a fact the websites are fine, or I will get text all on the left side instead of a normal website.





AAAaaaarrrrrghhhhhh!!!!!!






I just want to smash the computer to bits and peices. I'd uninstall but I got a ton of favorites.
I am beginning to hate Bill Gates, Microsoft.






Does Apple do this too?





Linux here I come, crawling back to you baby. Accept me with open arms, I will bribe your free butt.

 

[Jonathan in Hiram]

I have two Optiplex 755 quad core boxes running, one with Windows Ultimate 64 bit and 8 gigs ram/1 gig PCIe video card the other with Windows Home Premium 32 (I think) and 4 gigs with a 512 meg video card, they both run quite well. I like the extra size fan in the Optiplex towers, it's inaudible under normal loads and only gets to a loud whisper when I'm running BOINC, Hugin, Visual FSM, Meshlab, Registax, Deep Sky Stacker or something like that which takes a lot of processor power over a sustained period.

One limitation is only one PCIe card slot on the motherboard, if you have other hardware besides a video card that wants a PCIe slot you are out of luck. The onboard audio is not that great but it's passable with my Yamaha monitor speakers and Aiwa sub combo.. I've been thinking of upgrading to a Turtle Beach USB card or something like that but I'm not in any hurry.

 

[markz]

I have made up my mind. I am keeping the old HP case, my upgraded 650W PSU and GTX 650 Graphics Card. I will source a 1866MHz DDR3 motherboard with OC possiblities of 2133 and higher, and 64GB of ram.

Example: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX47975 $100 fits those needs listed above.

Needs FM2+ CPU - Will most likely bypass the integrated graphics like on the A8-7600 APU 3.1GHz w/ 4MB Cache for $110, still need to check out Athlon X4 860K Processor, 3.7GHz w/ 4MB Cache for $105. Not entirely sure about it. I know it doesnt have graphics. Next up are $150 CPU's

AMD A10-7800 APU, 3.5GHz w/ 4MB Cache $154.99
AMD A10-7850K APU, Black Edition 3.7GHz w/ 4MB Cache $154.99
AMD A10-7700K APU, Black Edition 3.4GHz w/ 4MB Cache $169.99
AMD A10-7870K APU, Black Edition 3.9GHz w/ 4MB Cache $184.99

RAM - 8GB is $60


And a SSD-HD of 240GB, Windows 7 installed bought online and imaged Brand: Corsair
SSD & HDD Cloning Kit $30 http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX45733

$450 all in, beats any refurbished unit I ever saw. The most were 1333 ram, dual core, some quad core. I think I need quad core for the ton of web pages I have open most of the time.

AM3+ looks like a better option now that I am reading Toms Hardware.

 

[markz]

AM3+ is a definate goes well with my current GTX650 Graphics.
FX chip I hear nothing but good reviews from.
ASUS Motherboard will be my choice.

In terms of good brands, ASUS, Gigabyte and MSI are in the top 3. ASUS seems to be #1, with mixed flip-flops of Gigabyte and MSI depending on posters experiences. One comment about horrible MSI customer service leans it to the #3 spot.



4-core AMD FX-4350 Processor 4.2Ghz w/ 12MB Cache (Unlocked) $149
I dont know if 6 cores is really needed.

When using multiple internet pages, 4 pages with 10 tabs open on each page. Is more cores better?
I still have not gotten a confirmed answer on this. I have viewed System Explorer which I see in my average usage below that this indeed is the case, but how do I overcome this, more cores, higher CPU speeds, more ram, SSD HD.

Right now I got memoryexpress open on 6 tabs, and the ES Forum all on one page. Next page I have several ebay pages and several mouser.com pages. I have Irfanview program open, to copy screen and save selection to desktop for E.S. posting. I have World of Tanks online game on, which is a one core game. I also have a basic MS Word document open right now for a To-Do list. This currently is I would say below average usage, I normally have more webpages open, I would say another page with 5 tabs. No video, but I would say I would be using more forums, cnet.com, perhaps newegg.ca type pages.

Picking ram and SSD is the easy part. A jump of $30-$50 to get 6 cores, instead of 4 cores with the same CPU speed. Some Motherboards have a 64GB Ram capacity, its common for them to only have 32GB.

A performance speed difference between DDR4 and DDR3 is very minor. But then DDR4 is intel based, which is way more money too. So it might be best to have 64GB capacity MB.

 

[markz]

Found a source for Windows 7 64 bit, great price, might buy a few copies.

Anybody know if I can call up Microsoft and see if they are fresh keys?
Probably wont install other 2 copies of W7 until 5 or 10 yrs down the line.

I am flip-flopping over to Intel for their DDR4 RAM - LGA 1151 Mobo's, AMD had too many cores which were always underutilized which worries me, as I read PS4 and the like use much much less speeds and ram. And Intel utilizes their cores. Also DDR4 is the next thing, faster speeds which make up for Latency issues.

http://www.corsair.com/~/media/Corsair/download-files/manuals/dram/DDR4-White-Paper.pdf
Awesome, unbiased read. Intel and Corsair teamed up.

DDR4’s architecture was specified to allow for considerably higher IC and DIMM densities
than DDR3’s. Mainstream DDR3 DIMMs currently scale to 8GB, but a modified DDR3
specification (Load Reduction DIMM) allows for an increase to 16GB or 32GB DIMMs. This is
unfortunately only visible chiefly on the enterprise side; while AMD’s processors can handle
16GB DIMMs, current generation mainstream Intel processors can’t support individual DDR3
DIMMs larger than 8GB.

Very common to see 64GB RAM mobo's available.

 

[markz]

3 hours got the new 120GB SSD Patriot Blast Hard drive in, cheapest there was at my local brick and mortar store, guys there are always helpful, its formatting it now.

Trying to find a full bootable for a fresh install onto SSD. I did not partition it, was going to partition it at 20480 (4096 block x 5) Vista needs 15GB space, but Toms Hardware forum stranger mentioned to not do it, unless 256GB or gaming or something.

Also bought a new Logitech Wireless keyboard and mouse. Its so much smoother now compared to the cheesey Staples keyboard my family member bought. Staples keyboard lasted a 5 months. Keyboard was USB, but mouse was some pinned connection plug. Odd. Old Skool.

Not to sure what else to do, might go with an upgrade AMD Phenom Quad-Core (Agena) up to 9950, (AM2+), if the price is right. Newegg/Amazon/ebay had one for $15-$20 see how that goes. Right now I got 4 DIMMS of 1GB each of DDR2 800MHz, so might go to 4x2GB or 2x4GB = 8GB DDR2 800MHz, $25.

Might solve some issues. When surfing today, I didnt realize hard drives slow down and cause internet to slow too.
Youtuber waited 5 minutes to reboot, and open Chrome.

So $50 for a new CPU quad-core ~3GHz and 8GB of ram might do the trick.

If not, if it stays the same, I am just going to wait a year and hopefully prices will decrease a lot by then.

 

[mark5]

Found a source for Windows 7 64 bit, great price, might buy a few copies.

Anybody know if I can call up Microsoft and see if they are fresh keys?
Probably wont install other 2 copies of W7 until 5 or 10 yrs down the line.

There'll be no more security updates after Jan 2020 when Windows 7 support ends.

 

[markz]

2020 is not too bad, but after that security will be an issue wont it. How often is MS currently putting out security updates for W7?

Found a good Vista ISO file in another forum.
Anyone ever hear of MEGA cloud, they are out of New Zealand. I had to download their transfer programs, but it seems to be working I am at 20% at a rate of 1.3MB/s, seems to be the average, sometimes 2MB/s if I am lucky, its just past midnight MST so it should be quicker, but its coming from the other side of the world. I have only ever done an ISO install once or twice before, but I totally forget what to do. I will save the Microsoft Vista SP2 ISO file onto a USB Memory Stick for the future.

My plan is to insall the ISO file onto the SSD-HD, but disconnect my WD 320GB 7200RPM or maybe put it last on boot sequence in BIOS.

 

[markz]

Well I just did a fresh install with a Vista ISO file I found, OEM code on the side of the HP desktop tower worked (besides the one B being an 8), a little hiccup on the internet wifi driver, my ethernet is wonky dont know what the issue is there, I would like to hardwire my desktop to the router, its only 3 feet away, maybe I might get no more lag. The mobo's wifi is only 2.4GHz 1/10 or might be 1/10/100 but no 5GHz channel like my ASUS router.

Found some 3rd party drivers that to me might be shady, unknown if I picked up some unwanted crap-ware. I really cant notice a difference so far with the 120GB SSD-HD, dunno if I should have partioned it. Only used 15GB so far. In the back of my mind I wanted to partion it at 25GB but I really have no clue if ones better then the other.

Went from 1 minute and 25 seconds on the old 7200rpm WD HD down to ~50 seconds on the Patriot SSD HD.
This is from when I change and save the BIOS startup sequence and click enter to save & exit.

No issues getting Office 2007 key, Jelly Bean Finder worked great. Install of 2007 didnt take long at all. Just installing Windows Mail now.

 

[markz]

I have never ever updated any BIOS ever. I will have to interweb it and see, if there are any updates and on how to actually do it. The motherboard is from 2008 so there must be an update, its an MSI mobo.

I plan to install two SSD-HD's, so my next one will be another 120GB.
In the meantime, I boot from either HD now. Just trying to figure out what to install on my fresh Vista and Office 2007 install on SSD-HD. This saved me probably $100 for Office, I did spend $100 for three Windows 7 keys, but will use one on a new 2016 motherboard, cpu, ram setup. I will probably wait a year for DDR4 prices with their corresponding high priced CPU's to decrease. $300 is the sweet spot. It amazes me that baseline CPU's can be more expensive then Mobo's.

Microsoft Security Essnetials I still to install. Malwarebytes is on a trial basis.
Got Windows Mail working, which W7 doesn't have, its a convenient feature for family members to have.

I am slowly deleting and uninstalling stuff from the old drive. This can give me an idea of what programs I need to redownload onto the fresh Vista SSD-HD.

I have read that Vista is pretty much crap-ola, but I will give it another chance. Especially if I want to save $150- $200 on Office 2013 or 2016. On the fresh install on the SSD it seemed to hang up on something I was doing the other day, and I had to press cntrl alt del for task manager and close some programs. But that did not simulate the existing problems on old HD.

 

[ccmdr]

Asus user, damn thing doesn't like 'cold booting' with any under or overclock. Used to be AMD quite heavily, bank for buck they're good if your after a low/mid APU aswell has a decent CPU. Mordern mobo's bios updates are generally using a windows utility and USB, but some still prefer with BIOS/CMD method. Tbh unless it's nackered don't bother, BIOS upgrades are a pain and unless there is something critically wrong with your system the time spent doing it won't show any results .

If your just a 'light' pc user the G3260 K anniversary is a lil gem, blow all price ranged competition out the water , teamed with a MSI mobo and your laughing. Yes it's not 'brand new' tech, but have a mosey at some benchmarks and you'll see that it's still very competitive. DDR4 vs DDR3 depends on your application, web browsing and gaming isn't going to effect it. Also, just getting 'faster' RAM sn't the end all, it's the latency the RAM runs at that makes the most difference... 3-5 fps . 8GB of DDR3 ram still isn't utilized in many on the headlining games etc... so any decent matched pair will do, just make sure they are in the right slots .

Not overly sure why you'd want two SSD's instead of one larger one, unless they are cheaper? If your dual booting O/S just a simple partition will do the job nicely. Running RAID 0 can cause issues so i don't think thats your intentions?

OpenOffice is pretty much MSOffice and saves in the same format. Sometimes you have page format issues, but then going from 03-07 you can do :lol:.

Not to suck eggs, but have you gone through all the changes you/r need/recommended to put in place with SSD drives.

SpyBot Search and Destroy, good program to use.

 

[Ohbse]

Sounds like you've already decided against it, but just FYI the Lenovo systems do NOT use standard ATX power supplies and will not play nicely with powerful graphics cards. I've given away/thrown out hundreds of these and the optiplex units.

Rolling your own is a good option, but I would caution against buying the cheapest of anything. There's always a 'bang for buck' curve, find the sweet spot and invest for a much longer, happier experience. a 128gb SSD can get really old once it gets close to full just from Windows and applications. I tend to upgrade my PC every 3 years, alternating between graphics and CPU/motherboard - this seems to work quite well, as long as I buy GOOD parts I get a long lifespan. Mid 2014 bought my current i5-4790k/16gb DDR4 combo and then in december finally replaced graphics with gtx 980 ti. Still running my old OCZ vertex 3 SSD which must be 5 years old at this point. I don't expect I'll have need anything new for quite some time.

I would not re-install Vista at all - get a Windows 7 install. If you get stuck for sourcing a copy give me a PM. Think I still have a bunch of MSDN keys.