Zero Motorcycle Replacement Pack

[cenesdelavega]

Anyone have any ideas on replacing my Zero-X and MX batteries? Mine seem to be losing power - going up a steep hill, they just don't have the oomph they used to have. They are the standard 2010 Molycel battery packs. The ones from Zero used to be pretty pricey, and don't even appear on their web site any more. Thanks! Roger

[amberwolf]

If you're up to building your own pack, there are a few options, including the A123 20Ah cells that appear to flooding the market right now.

If you look around, there is a thread about some pre-built pack modules, probably easy to build your own pack from those.

[999zip999]

How many volts ect.

[cenesdelavega]

They are built from these cells: http://www.molicel.com/ca/pdf/IMR26700.pdf .

There are 14 banks in series, to get a total of 53.2V at 3.8 volts (nominal) each. Each bank has 12 cells in parallel for a total of 168 cells. Each cell has a nominal capacity of 2.9Ah. Total capacity is 1850 Wh. The controller is rated to pull a maximum of 300A.

Would a pack made with the A123 20Ah cells source this much power? I'd really like less voltage sag, and longer life than the Molicels.

Thanks, Roger

[picasso]

The drop with a123 will be well under what the e molicel can do. All of the new zero packs are a123.

[Doctorbass]

All of the new zero packs are a123.

Oops!.. the 2012 are made of EIG cells not A123.

[Doctorbass]

Problem is that the original BMS of the zero is made for a range of 3.0 to 4.2V and the A123 are 2.0 to 3.6V so you can not just replace them by the A123 and hope that the BMS will work.

I have a zero 2011 with the 3.8kWh pack ( 14s24p) of the emoli cells 2.9Ah . I opened the battery to add some baalnce connector in and i can say that you have alot of room to include a new battery setup and a new BMS as well.. but i'm not sure if your actual zero ( a 2010?) have a BMS that communicate with the ECU to enable it to work.. like mine is.

The LiFePO4 cells like A123 need to be 16s to match the 14s pack of the zero. maybe building your own pack with the A123 pouch and to make a circuit that fake the 14s cells detected by the BMS to make it "detect" the 14s limn cells but it would just have to be a 14 resistor in serie( voltage divider) that fake the original cells of the zero and enabling the ECU from the signal of the BMS that detect the fake cells.

Than
build your new pack in 16s A123 and connect it to teh main positive and main negative.. ?

Doc

[picasso]

Odd I was at zero a week back and saw a stack cells, I asked if those guys have changed to the pouch a123 cells and was told yes....

The other problem with a change in cell type is the dash on the MX. It will pull out the solenoid on signal from the BMS. Havent looked if its active or just passive signal.

[liveforphysics]

Odd I was at zero a week back and saw a stack cells, I asked if those guys have changed to the pouch a123 cells and was told yes....

The other problem with a change in cell type is the dash on the MX. It will pull out the solenoid on signal from the BMS. Havent looked if its active or just passive signal.

You asked the wrong person evidently.

[cenesdelavega]

If you look on the EIG site, indeed, they are crowing loudly about the Zero deal. However, which EIG cell did they choose? I talked to Zero a couple months back and they said they have raised the 2012 pack voltage so I would need to replace just about everything in order to use their new batteries (if they are even selling them). Personally, I think there will be a reasonable demand for replacement 2009-2011 Zero packs now and in the next couple years as the Molicel packs bite the dust. Otherwise there will be a lot of Zero-X and MX that will be gathering dust. A drop-in A123 or EIG pack (or other cell type) would be very cool (and fast!). Any takers? I'm willing to be a guinea pig... Or, if not, I'll try to build my own. At one time I was a EE... Some preliminary questions:

1) Best place to buy A123 or EIG cells or modules?
2) Can I use the existing Zero charger (probably yes, if I use the "fake 14S" method)
4) If I use the fake 14S method, then how should I keep the real 16s cells balanced?

[picasso]

1) http://www.victpower.cn seems to be the cheap a123 suppler.
2) The charger can be reprogrammed, I have never done it. But you can find info on the deltaQ chargers here on this forum and also DIY.
3) I would think one would just ditch the ZERO BMS, I have a newer "MX" bms here and it is now sealed in epoxy. No way to get at any tap points to see what it is doing. The newer MX batts have a metal plate do help dissipate the heat from top balancing.


I bet zero gets a module from EIG and not naked cells. But I did see a stack of pouch cells at Zero that looked a heck of allot like the a123 sized cells.

[Ykick]

Odd I was at zero a week back and saw a stack cells, I asked if those guys have changed to the pouch a123 cells and was told yes....

The other problem with a change in cell type is the dash on the MX. It will pull out the solenoid on signal from the BMS. Havent looked if its active or just passive signal.

You asked the wrong person evidently.

Ya think? LOL...

[Doctorbass]

Odd I was at zero a week back and saw a stack cells, I asked if those guys have changed to the pouch a123 cells and was told yes....

The other problem with a change in cell type is the dash on the MX. It will pull out the solenoid on signal from the BMS. Havent looked if its active or just passive signal.

You asked the wrong person evidently.

Ya think? LOL...

Yes it's EIG

but if you preffer thinking it'S A123 it's up to you

Doc

[Ykick]

Ya think? LOL...

Yes it's EIG

but if you preffer thinking it'S A123 it's up to you

Doc

Doc, I was agreeing wholeheartedly with Luke...

[Doctorbass]

Ya think? LOL...

Yes it's EIG

but if you preffer thinking it'S A123 it's up to you

Doc

Doc, I was agreeing wholeheartedly with Luke...

All right !

[cassschr1]

Luke, you need to tell people where you work.