Zippy vs Turnigy vs nano-tech according to HK

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cwah

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TURNIGY® Batteries explained
Zippy: Great value for money. Average Cycle Life* (100+) and minimal voltage sag under load.
TURNIGY Standard: Excellent value, Longer Cycle life* (160+) and very low voltage sag under load.
TUNIGY nano-tech: Unbeatable performance, Longest Cycle Life* (250+) and almost 0 voltage sag under load.
*Cycle Life results from discharging at full C rate to 3v. End of life when battery has 80% capacity.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/ebasic.asp

So nano-tech, when they don't have cell problem, are probably the best for ebike (according to HK)
 
I prever the turnigy standard over the zippy packs, they have an extra layer of protection under the shrink wrap, the ballance leads are silicone instead of stiffer plastic ( makes routing parallel packs easier without stressing the wires ).. and the turnigy packs are square ( usually.. unless you get a puffer ) vs the zippy that are staggered a tiny bit..

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Testing the nano packs now on the KMX trike..
 
Ypedal, I was always wondering about the turnigy. They are a bit bigger than the zippy but if they last longer that may worth it.

Ohzee, if you're not discharging to 3V and using the lipo at their full C rate, you should expect much more cycle. But if the nano-tech can have 250 cycle initially, they should have much more at lower C rate
 
Yep anymore I usually run 16 6s 5000mah turnnigy/lipo's. Charge to 4.1 discharge to 3.85.

Working great so far they also even all stay nice and balanced.
 
Most of us are very careful about how the LiPo is charged, discharged, and stored, so typical RC use cycle counts tend to be a very low estimate. Plus, most e-bikes have sufficiently large packs that a little degradation isn't a big factor in power or range. If your pack starts sagging a little bit more after 100 cycles, or you loose 5-10% capacity, you're probably not going to chuck it.

Those RC guys tend to be very hard on packs. No real cell level protection, often using cheap balance chargers that shoot for 4.20V and ESC's that discharge down to 3.0V average. Plus, they tend to actually run very high C rates whereas if you were running near the C-Rate limit on a reasonably sized RC LiPo pack on an ebike, your motor/controller would probably burn down very quickly.

We do have another issue, lots of cells. Toss a hundred cells together, and one or two is probably going to have an issue after a few years and few hundred cycles. All in all, you should be able to expect a few hundred easy cycles out of a well made pack thats used gently. It's not that uncommon to see 1,000+ cycles on a Turnigy pack, as long as you never deep discharge it or constantly overcharge. It's probably going to have 60-70% of its rated capacity, and probably twice the new IR, but it will still 'work'.
 
Using HK numbers Nanotech doesn't promise double cycle life of standard Turnigy bricks but Nano often seems to price double or more. For my needs standard Turnigy is what I been very satisfied with for over 2 years and an honest +500 shallow cycles delivering low C rates.

Most Nanotech users seem to be performance oriented so it's probably not accurate to use their seemingly numerous failure rates as any indication of Nanotech longevity. However, we come back to HK's numbers and most the time Nanotech is double price or more when compared to standard 20C Turnigy. Daily commuters don't need high C rates so longevity of low C rates never really becomes much of an issue.

Personally, 3 years and I'm ready to try something newer anyway.
 
ZOMGVTEK said:
Most of us are very careful about how the LiPo is charged, discharged, and stored, so typical RC use cycle counts tend to be a very low estimate. Plus, most e-bikes have sufficiently large packs that a little degradation isn't a big factor in power or range. If your pack starts sagging a little bit more after 100 cycles, or you loose 5-10% capacity, you're probably not going to chuck it.

Those RC guys tend to be very hard on packs. No real cell level protection, often using cheap balance chargers that shoot for 4.20V and ESC's that discharge down to 3.0V average. Plus, they tend to actually run very high C rates whereas if you were running near the C-Rate limit on a reasonably sized RC LiPo pack on an ebike, your motor/controller would probably burn down very quickly.

We do have another issue, lots of cells. Toss a hundred cells together, and one or two is probably going to have an issue after a few years and few hundred cycles. All in all, you should be able to expect a few hundred easy cycles out of a well made pack thats used gently. It's not that uncommon to see 1,000+ cycles on a Turnigy pack, as long as you never deep discharge it or constantly overcharge. It's probably going to have 60-70% of its rated capacity, and probably twice the new IR, but it will still 'work'.
Click to expand...

Agreed, i use single 2200 mah 25c turnigy,s on my rc sport planes and im drawing 70 amps peak and 20/30 constant, yes they have puffed a bit prob mainly to over/under volting
but still hanging in there,
As its 1 3s who cares[ $12], it is the rc guys who commonly do/ can afford this type of treetment, i wont be abusing my $350/$400 :shock: ebike lipos.
Ps you can checkout the rate of climb on my just a quick flight vid on my sig below.
 
So potentially the turnigy may have longer cycle life than zippy.

Actually, the low C rate nanotech (25-50C) are 'only' 50% more expensive than the 20C turnigy but also 15% lighter. This one is at 160wh/kg:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/%5F%5F18210%5F%5FTurnigy%5Fnano%5Ftech%5F8000mAh%5F6S%5F25%5F50C%5FLipo%5FPack.html

So, if you consider that it is lighter, has almost no sag, potentially double the cycle life and factor the shipping cost from HK, it may worth it
 
Worth it if you need the perfromance.

If you want longer cycle life and don't need as high performance, why are you considering RC lipo at all, when you could be using A123's. If you need performance, and the lightest and smallest possible pack, then don't fret about cycle life.
 
Then you want the performance of the nano's.

You keep drawing fire because you come and post " this is the best whatever" It's not best, it's best for your needs, which you don't bother to specify. Others have different needs.
 
Silly.
I know people on this forum who have >300 cycles on their turnigy 20C and zippy 20C batteries. YKick and el_steak both made it into the 300-600 cycle zone.

You are a fool if you listen to their marketing hype. There is no science in it at all. They don't even have discharge graphs. They even underrate their nominal voltage as being 3.7v when it is 3.8v-3.85v in reality.

Set up a pack with an extremely conservative C rating for your controller's max amp load and it will last a really long time.

For example, i run 20AH of 20C Turnigy on my MAC bike.. 20 x 20 = 400, but i run a max of 42A on my controller :lol: My packs are almost 2 years old now and i still get only 1V of voltage drop on peak amps :)

Nanotech is useful if you are creating a drag bike. Otherwise put a large amount of lower C rated packs for an equivalent power output and you'll have more amp hours at a much lower price.
 
I agree it's mostly my needs, but I think most ebike user are looking for the best compromise for a cheap, light and long lasting pack.

I know I shouldn't believe in their specs... but I'm hoping that the nano-tech should last longer. Even the product specialist guy from hobby king told me that it has a longer shelf life than standard lipoly.

It seems that most of us have better experience with turnigy than zippy however.
 
Maybe it has a longer shelf life, but a longer cycle life? i have my doubts.

If you want to pay that kind of money per kilowatt-hour, you might as well invest in some commercially made battery packs or cells which have a much longer lifespan.

When you get into the nanotech world, RC Lipo suddenly isn't so cheap anymore.
 
Perhaps he knows they'll say anything to sell batteries?

Skeptical till you see the proof of it is the rule here. It will take a while for people to rack up 400-600 cycles or on nano packs rigs, in the real world, on the bike, as we use them. Data from helicopter use may not be that similar to how we use them.
 
I just received a pair of 6S 8000mah 25-50C Turnigy Nano-Tech batteries from the Hobby-King USA warehouse. The batteries were nicely packed in their own carboard boxes and arrived unscathed.

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For the better part of a year now I've relied on a pair of 6S 5000mah 25C Zippy packs as my sole power source for my ebike. I don't ride nearly as much as I once did and I don't keep a log like I used to but the cycles I do have on the 21 month old batteries have been hard ones with most rides of 15-30 miles depleting the pack 90-100%. Capacity is still close to 5ah but the little pack does get warm especially when used on my latest ebike with a 27A limit. The internal resistance seems to be up a bit to at around 0.14 ohms (as calculated from the voltage drop at 1,2,3 and 4C discharges).

I've only been on one ride with the Nano-Techs but when I returned home the pack felt barely warm. I also checked the voltage drop at 1, 2 and 2.5C and came up with an average internal resistance of just 0.043 ohms. Will see how they hold up in the years (fingers crossed :wink: ) to come.

-R
 
Yeah those figures are to be taken with a grain of salt talking about ebike at ~5C or less in most cases.
I actually like the slightly smaller 25C zippys (non-silicon balance taps aside) for mounting convenience in PVC tube and have just retired my original pack with over 600 cycles on it (and only because 1 cell out of 18 died) but even that isn't an accurate indication of how long they should last because that pack had the snot beaten out of it (noob to bulk charging took half the cells up to ~4.5v/cell while the others were discharged to 2v - but that was 500 cycles ago)

Based on this as an example and using HKs logic, nanotechs should last as long as lifepo4...
 
Helloo Hyena,

You have very good stats on your pack. How did you use your pack on daily basis? I mean:
- Charge rate?
- Discharge rate?
- Max voltage?
- Min voltage?
- And do you only charge your lipo when you need them or do you keep them full charge?
 
18S 10ah pack parallel bulk charged to 25.1v/6S pack @ 20 amps - so 4.18v/cell avg ( rarely balanced though so could have been over) at 0.67C

LVC was set at 63v in the CA with no cell level monitoring and in the last 2 weeks before the cell died altogether I noticed it was hitting this LVC after only 7.5ah The other cells were still around 3.6v so it was probably dipping to 2v for the last few weeks.

Discharge rates were 8C peak (80 amps, 5000w) but for the most part were only around 2-3C with regular 4-5C bursts of ~30 seconds.

The cycles put on it were twice daily - setting off with a full charge and discharging 6-7.5ah (depending on riding style) and then recharging at work during the day (9a parallel for the most part - so at 0.3C and then 30a parallel for the last month - so 1C)
The faster charge rates towards the end (loaned my charger to someone else so had to use a beefy one) may have contributed but probably not considering I'd always charged it atleast once a day at 20a anyway.
I then discharge another ~7 on the way home and charged it up again at 20a (usually leaving it on the charge until the following morning when I'd set off again.

Clearly nearly all of the above are all the things you're not supposed to do with lipo but as a pack that I'd written off a year ago (was given back to me "dead" ) i was keen to see how long it'd last under the worst, noob conditions.
 
This is a low sample size, but for what it's worth I always run standard turnigy on my RC car (Associated B44) and planes and have had not problems with 6 or 8 packs. They all seem to live up to specified capacities and deliver all the current I need without too much sag, heat, puffing etc.

Then a friend of mine got a pair of nanotechs and they sagged so bad under load on his RC10T truck it would trip the LVC after just 2 or 3 minutes of driving. I let him borrow a similar sized standard Turnigy pack and it blew the nanotechs out of the water, 15 minute run time no problem.

The packs he got must have been defective and hopefully aren't representative of a good specimen, but after that experience I didn't really see any need to spend the extra money on them, they can be quite a bit pricier than standard Turnigy packs.
 
the 12 nano packs on my KMX ( 100v 13.5ah from 4.5ah 6S packs ) are gonig strong.. i've pulled 10ah from the pack holding 90v dipping to 88v on 60 amps at the end of the cycle... i bulk charge them like i do my zippy and turnigy and the nano's seem to retain their ballance more accurately so far ( consistency ) .. still early days.
 
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