GNG Drive Gen2

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Post Reply
User avatar
crossbreak   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2879
Joined: Aug 02 2011 11:20am
Location: Germany
Contact:

GNG Drive Gen2

Post by crossbreak » Nov 19 2012 7:04pm

Since this this discussion got OT, I made a new one

caijunze wrote:Bro ... i've got the news about the new kit of Brushless motor GEN 2
Here Fresh from oven ( TODAY JUST MADE IT !!) even The GNG still havent put it in his web ^^
Wanna to know it ^^ ? I think GNG Mr Chan will sell it about $320 - $350 [...]

Image

Image

Image

Image
The weight about 3.5 kg , but the salesman said that the climbing ability not as good as the GEN 1 ,,,
this kit design for the road bike
there are 2 option 36v 350w and 48V 450W

kfong   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1956
Joined: Sep 02 2008 11:34am
Location: SE Michigan, USA
Contact:

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by kfong » Nov 19 2012 7:40pm

I'm liking this new design. More field reports! Pics of the internals as well!

User avatar
crossbreak   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2879
Joined: Aug 02 2011 11:20am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by crossbreak » Nov 19 2012 7:46pm

kfong wrote:I'm liking this new design. More field reports! Pics of the internals as well!
that what i'm keen to see also. think it will take some time till these kits get ready to ship.

Edit: just calculated:

The drive sprocket is 9T
if we use a 44t crank wheel, this is 4.89 reduction. If the planetary reduction is 5.3 like my hub conversion drive, total reduction to the crank would be almost 26 :shock: that would be ~2100rpm motor speed @80rpm crank cadence - that's amazing! The GNG Gen1 only does ~1680rpm

The next quetsion would be... how long will the 9T sprocket last :?
Last edited by crossbreak on Nov 19 2012 8:39pm, edited 1 time in total.

caijunze   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 13
Joined: Jan 24 2012 5:19am

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by caijunze » Nov 19 2012 8:11pm

WOW So fast !~~~ ^^
i just bought it ... but need some of test report ^^
wanna to know the eficiency and the tourqe ,
BTW if the controller used a (crsytalyte 50A) ... this kit will do much better than the standard controller though!~


eramachinery   10 µW

10 µW
Posts: 5
Joined: Oct 03 2012 10:29pm

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by eramachinery » Nov 19 2012 9:25pm

I dun email ~I just Phoned the salesman directly to the factory ^^ just bought the GEN 2 kits
this kits will come to my country about 3-4 weeeks ... to much longer X....X"

User avatar
Miles   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11026
Joined: Mar 16 2007 4:15pm
Location: London UK

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by Miles » Nov 20 2012 2:12am

You're only allowed one id, caijunze.....

Architectonic   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 491
Joined: Nov 05 2011 8:46pm
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by Architectonic » Nov 20 2012 3:07am

Looks interesting. I was considering crank drive for a dual sus. off road MTB, but I was a bit put off by the problems with the Cyclone kits, belt problems (and the size) of the GNG kit, so I'm looking forward to seeing how this holds up.

User avatar
bzhwindtalker   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1705
Joined: Dec 01 2008 1:03pm
Location: Lyon, France

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by bzhwindtalker » Nov 20 2012 3:16am

The freewheeling is probably quite bad with the 9t and hub motor type clutch. This is a way taller gearing than the typical rear wheel use of a geared hubbie, but changing the 9t for a small freewheel would work if the drive really spin at 80rpm stock.
Good thermal transfer, compact, simple... looks really interesting!

User avatar
crossbreak   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2879
Joined: Aug 02 2011 11:20am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by crossbreak » Nov 20 2012 7:53am

Subject: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400
stocaz wrote:
crossbreak wrote:Looks like my converted hubmotor. I guess it uses a planetary reduction as well so it might actually be 2-stage. The missing freewheel on the sprocket is also a sign for that.
but this way is it as louder and noisy as cyclone?
The cyclone is also two stage, but probably has a higher primary reduction (9.33 primary). Usually noise rises with higher reduction ratios. I guess the Gen2 GNG has nylon planetary gears which are known to be much less noisy than the metal gears in cyclone drives.
bzhwindtalker wrote:The freewheeling is probably quite bad with the 9t and hub motor type clutch.
roller type clutches aren't all bad. The BMC and Stieber ones actually spin very good. The Bafangs are also ok if lubricated well. If this drive is really geared fine, one could at least swap the stock 9/42 crank reduction for a 10/48.

caijunze   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 13
Joined: Jan 24 2012 5:19am

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by caijunze » Nov 20 2012 8:00am

yep i still waiting .... anything u want to ask about the kit gen 2 ? give it to me , i will help reply to u immediately.
BTW i had 2 a/c one is ERA machinery and Caijunze (Same person ) ^^ sorry .. due to one of my computer in office used eramachinery

User avatar
Miles   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11026
Joined: Mar 16 2007 4:15pm
Location: London UK

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by Miles » Nov 20 2012 8:10am

caijunze wrote:BTW i had 2 a/c one is ERA machinery and Caijunze (Same person ) ^^ sorry .. due to one of my computer in office used eramachinery
We're strict about that because of numerous instances of people with a commercial interest having faux dialogues with themselves... :)

User avatar
parajared   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 849
Joined: Apr 16 2012 11:33pm
Location: Northern Arizona

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by parajared » Nov 20 2012 9:34am

Why are people predicting that it will be less efficient than a two stage reduction? Wouldn't it be more efficient due to less drag from the two reductions?

User avatar
crossbreak   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2879
Joined: Aug 02 2011 11:20am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by crossbreak » Nov 20 2012 11:04am

parajared wrote:Why are people predicting that it will be less efficient than a two stage reduction? Wouldn't it be more efficient due to less drag from the two reductions?
That is the very theory. But we already know from the pics that this motor has a planetary reduction. It works exactly like the cyclone, just to make things clear.

stocaz   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 28
Joined: Nov 01 2012 4:00am

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by stocaz » Nov 20 2012 12:27pm

Gng site says only 350 w model available..

kriskros   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 863
Joined: Feb 03 2009 5:28pm
Location: OSHAWA

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by kriskros » Nov 20 2012 4:32pm

would the nylon planetarygears from the GNG fit a cyclone?? maybe use one steel and two nylon,could be much quieter... if so, are they available?? :mrgreen:

User avatar
boostjuice   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 959
Joined: Jul 27 2008 8:50am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by boostjuice » Nov 20 2012 8:46pm

kriskros wrote:would the nylon planetarygears from the GNG fit a cyclone?? maybe use one steel and two nylon,could be much quieter... if so, are they available?? :mrgreen:
I don't think a nylon/composite gear made in such a fine Module 1 pitch (such as the cyclone planetary gears) would withstand the torque required. I think Cyclone users are stuck with the 'swarm of hornets' as necessitated by steel gears.

User avatar
crossbreak   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2879
Joined: Aug 02 2011 11:20am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by crossbreak » Nov 20 2012 8:58pm

helical gears are more likely a whisper than hornets, even if they are steel. The gears in my 250W swxb bafang are mod. 1.25

User avatar
Cyclebutt   100 W

100 W
Posts: 284
Joined: Jun 07 2012 5:05pm
Location: Memphis, TN , USA

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by Cyclebutt » Nov 20 2012 9:05pm

VERY interesting...
Though the river tells no lies, many do not trust it.

kriskros   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 863
Joined: Feb 03 2009 5:28pm
Location: OSHAWA

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by kriskros » Nov 21 2012 2:58pm

i am running the cyclone 1200w through a nuvinci hub with 44v,20amp lipo....motor screams on acceleration,but is not bad cruising in low gear.. i am not up on modern synthetics but there must be some thay are as durable,or better,than steel...delrin eg was very durable ...i ran a puma[mac] on the same power,using one steel and two green bmc gears....no problems in about 1800 miles...very quiet after break in:mrgreen:

User avatar
crossbreak   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2879
Joined: Aug 02 2011 11:20am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by crossbreak » Nov 21 2012 4:41pm

The problem with gears is that most controllers only use a battery current limit but no phase current limit . This way the gears always get crushed when trying wheelies :shock:

User avatar
boostjuice   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 959
Joined: Jul 27 2008 8:50am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by boostjuice » Nov 21 2012 7:12pm

kriskros wrote:i am running the cyclone 1200w through a nuvinci hub with 44v,20amp lipo....motor screams on acceleration,but is not bad cruising in low gear.. i am not up on modern synthetics but there must be some thay are as durable,or better,than steel...delrin eg was very durable ...i ran a puma[mac] on the same power,using one steel and two green bmc gears....no problems in about 1800 miles...very quiet after break in:mrgreen:
With an increased gear tooth pitch Module - to compensate for some reduced material performance properties - I've no doubt delrin/composite/nylon gears would work much quieter, even in straight cut profile. And to take this a step further and also move to a helical profile would necessitate an even larger gear pitch for the same torque loading to further compensate for the lower tooth contact surface area. But when we're not willing to build/adapt an entirely different gearbox onto these motors due to time/cost/effort/tooling & machining access......this is all academic.

When it comes to noise though gear speed plays a role too...

Geared hub motor rotors (and the attached sun gear) spin up to only ~1500rpm whereas the cyclone motors spin up to anywhere between 3500rpm > 7000rpm depending on the selected system voltage (24V >48V).
Last edited by boostjuice on Nov 21 2012 9:06pm, edited 2 times in total.

Animalector   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 862
Joined: Mar 17 2012 4:50pm
Location: Mareeba - Queensland

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by Animalector » Nov 21 2012 8:10pm

so.. can we order one? or not yet?

Andy

caijunze   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 13
Joined: Jan 24 2012 5:19am

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by caijunze » Nov 21 2012 8:15pm

"Gng site says only 350 w model available.."

Actually yes ,only 350watt available now ,
DUE to lots of customer need 48 volt so i asked the salesman and they said that actually you can use the GEN 1 controller 48v 22 amps also no problem.
48volt will coming soon , they now out of stock for 48 volt controller ^^"
so thats why GNG Mr Chan said only 350w available ... :D

But for me i want to use other controller that higher than the factory gave it to us in order to make new experiments
chain guide 2.jpg
chain guide 2.jpg (233.58 KiB) Viewed 1741 times
chain guide.jpg
You can Attach a spring to the chain guide to the small wheel there ^^
chain guide.jpg (198.39 KiB) Viewed 1741 times
Whole bike dh.jpg
Whole bike dh.jpg (224.41 KiB) Viewed 1327 times
Last edited by caijunze on Nov 21 2012 8:28pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
liveforphysics   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14134
Joined: Oct 29 2008 1:48am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Re: GNG Drive Gen2

Post by liveforphysics » Nov 21 2012 8:23pm

boostjuice wrote: I've no doubt delrin/composite/nylon gears would work much quieter, even in straight cut profile.

Helical cut done right is virtually silent, even in hardened steel gears.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

Post Reply