new eZip motor

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latecurtis
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 08, 2017 12:26 am

NO dual suspension BS. 40 mph BMX style. YEEHAAA
HELL NO :!: :!:

I was walking and got to thinking and I always thought a 24" bike wheel was 24.5" as that is what the sprocket calculator on page 71 is set at before you enter the number. The default setting. It is why I have been going with a 20" wheel and not a 24" wheel.

I just measured a 24" wheel and it measured 23.5" NOT 24.5" . I measured a 20" wheel and got 19"

Then I went to sprocket calculator and gearing went from 32.5 mph to 37.5 mph which is actually perfect for those two motors working together. From what I recall on those charts DA posted awhile ago.

1,000 watts = 30 mph
1,500 watts = 35 mph
2,000 watts = 40 mph

If that is true then 1,750 watts = 37.5 mph and since the front motor is 36 volts and 800 watts and the rear motor is 48 volts and 1,000 watts then I am 50 watts above the power and speed limit. :D

Also if it is NOT broke do not fix it. The 24 volt 500 watt motor on the back of the 20" cargo bike will stay. It is running the #25 chain and 11T motor and 80T wheel sprocket which bolts to the freewheel. I will be able to get a second 500 watt motor and will put it on the front to replace the 36 volt 800 watt motor and keep them both at 24 volts each but have the 36 volt upgrade for 1,500 watts and 30 mph.

I will keep everyone posted on my progress. Thanks.

LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 09, 2017 2:41 am

IMG_2999.JPG
Not Sure but these look really small. My friend downstairs says they look like Hot wheels batteries.

I really hope I did not get robbed. One of these packs don't look like they will make it one mile let alone 7 miles.

:cry:

no charger yet. :roll:

I don't see a BMS either. I could have probably built a 60 cell pack with the money I just wasted if I knew what cells to get.

I know I should have ordered the Samsung pack when it was available. Instead I waited and got kiddie toy batteries. :oops: :oops:

I knew I got ripped off when I opened the box. Too light. A dead giveaway and when I saw two packs in the box I knew I was screwed. If it were one and the other box was on the way then I may have got 3 miles out of one but way too light. About 3 miles total with both packs if I am Lucky. Three 10Ah SLAs would go farther than those.

Thanks anyways.

LC out.

PS.

been searching hard and saw these guys sticking up for the hot wheels batteries they sent. I need to punch someone in the face I think.
The guy looks like a blithering idiot.

There is no way in hell these batteries are any good. LIFEPO4 is heavy I heard. these 18650 cells are light. I wish is were true and they would go 7 miles but without a BMS I know I got screwed.

It is not what was advertised and if one of those were equal to Three 10 Ah SLAs then the SLA company would go out of business as nobody would ever buy lead ass batteries or LiPo as one of the 5S packs Dan sent are a lot more heavy than one of these.

I am disgusted and do not see why these guys are lying. Looking for a test by Richard Loyed on them but can't find it. he tested the LG batteries and I thought it was these. It looked the same as the LG but $34 instead of $44 so the cheaper price was all I saw and blind to the name brand. I really screwed up. :oops:
Last edited by latecurtis on Dec 09, 2017 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 09, 2017 7:45 am

No test results on Sona batteries yet?
Pack voltages, as delivered?
(BTW ... I can see the BMS's from your little pictures)

Samsungs doing great!
Somewhere(?) I picked up a Nintendo Gamecube bag that works perfectly.
Very sturdy and insulated with strong strap and Stainless Steel clips.
Might add more insulation for cold weather durability.
4 batts, 36V 17.6Ah fit nicely!

Image

Added speedometer and V-A-W-Ah meter.
Which lets me know exactly how much battery I have used and how much left.
All these packs have BMS's which protect packs from overcharge and over discharge.
Which should prevent catastrophic destruction but does not prevent the typical abuse LC afflicts batteries with.

Image

Just a temporary rig, testing old front hub motor.
See - Rescue Motor - Aotema (Wilderness Energy BD-36)
Controller stuck in side pouch, will mount on bike for easy battery bag removal for charging.

Laced into a 26" wheel that cruises (full throttle) at 23mph. "Geared" a bit too high, for legality or best performance.
20" wheel provides Legal 20mph with great performance enhancements!
Full throttle in 20" wheel:
drops speed from 23mph >> (legal) 20mph;
improves efficiency from 72% >> 80%;
improves hill (below 12mph) and starting (35lb >> 45lb) torque;
increases level road cruising range from 23 miles to 32 miles!!!
See - Speed vs Range
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There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 09, 2017 8:17 am

Well I lifted the tape and saw a bunch of little red wires going somewhere. it has to be a BMS. i did not want to remove the tape as it protects it.

I might remove the green tape when I mount them. They need protection and waterproofing. Is the bag you are using waterproof ?
These batteries are small and lightweight. If the LG and Samsung will really do 7 miles a pack then if two of these will do six miles and take 400 charges I got my moneys worth and that is on flat ground.

Up hills if it will go downtown and back they are fantastic. Right now I don't know if the old LiPos can make the trip but know they did many times over before and I know three 10 Ah SLAS will do it about 50 to 100 times if no full throttle. The single 10.0 - 6S LiPo pack did many times over before I killed it and even the 8.0 LiPo pack did so if these do then I will have got a good deal.

I need to get bullet plugs on them and on the charger when it comes. It would make no sense to order a dozen adapters as all the controllers on each bike I own have bullet plugs so I would need to spend a lot of money to change when I just need to put bullets on them.

No balance plugs so when I charge them can I hook them in parallel to two bullet connectors and charge them in parallel ?

if they make it downtown and back without slowing down I will buy two more and another cheap charger next month. then will make a parallel cable to hook all four up and run together.

I could buy eight more and 4 more chargers after that and always have batteries on standby. I would never need to build a huge pack with 60 cells then. Actually we already know that was improbable anyway due to my chronic laziness :oops: .

I really want to start working on my new 37.5 mph dual motor build but so far after several days not even removed the variable controller from the old 24" cargo bike let alone uninstalling the motor. Then I will have to take two spoke sprockets off two 20" wheels and installing on the 24" wheels. then the motors. Then at least one brake somewhere. Man it's a lot of work. :oops: Thanks.

LC out.

PS. Just got a 40.8 V reading on one and a 36.4 V on the other. that don't sound good. However they are a little heavier than I first thought. compared to the 8.0 LiPo pack inside the LiPo pouch I have not run in awhile they are close to the same weight. They are not LIFEPO4 I guess but Lion Lithium ion. I will look up the weight now. If they are close in shipping weight to the Samsung or LG cells than I should be good. If not I got robbed. Thanks.

LC out.
Last edited by latecurtis on Dec 09, 2017 8:36 am, edited 6 times in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 09, 2017 8:32 am

latecurtis wrote:
Dec 09, 2017 8:17 am
I need to get bullet plugs on them and on the charger when it comes. It would make no sense to order a dozen adapters as all the controllers on each bike I own have bullet plugs so I would need to spend a lot of money to change when I just need to put bullets on them.
Don't be foolish!
Buy some xt60 parallel cables and 1 xt60 to bullet adapter.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Dec 09, 2017 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 09, 2017 8:46 am

IMG_3004.JPG
The dual suspension won't work for a 24" solid fork. I had to use an old Schwinn frame hanging up. I managed to change the forks but am going to need to change them again as those forks are not heavy duty enough for a dual motor 37.5 mph bike.

I will need to locate a pair of solid forks for the front motor mount. The rear wheel is also slightly bent and will need a true. It does not look like this dual motor project will happen any time soon.


yea but got no money. the cheap charger is a three prong and I have absolutely no idea why. Only looks like two wires in the cord. It needs to hook to bullets.

These will run every bike I own. which all have a female bullet for positive and male for negative coming from the controller.

the Schwinn , the Currie and the new 24" cargo bike. Therefore I need bullet plugs male for positive and female for negative coming from each pack to plug in to the controllers.

Dan sent me a bunch so soldering like I did All my LiPos seem like it will save a lot of $$$$$ than buying all those adapters. I will need to pick up solder and shrink wrap. I like shrink wrapping better than electrical tape but usually use both anyway.

This cheap charger will work for now but if I am getting four or eight more packs will need a parallel board for Lion and a 300 or 400 watt charger I think to do four packs at once. that way I will have four packs always ready on standby.

I will still need to build a 48 volt pack as all my bikes work on 48 volts also. i am just looking for cells with similar capacity to what those are. 2 Ah per cell tested. I will need 60 minimum as four rows of 14 should work very well. however for charging with one of my LiPo chargers I should build two 6S packs or four rows of six and hook to four rows of six in parallel. that would allow me to charge with my LiPo charger that works for LIFEPO4.

Some kind of deal LIKE the Full river but NOT the 4 river. (they got bad reviews) but at least 4 Ah per cell tested and 60 minium in a box for around $100. Thanks and please let me know.

LC out.
Last edited by latecurtis on Dec 10, 2017 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 09, 2017 9:43 am

DrkAngel wrote:
Dec 09, 2017 8:32 am
Don't be foolish!
Buy some xt60 parallel cables and 1 xt60 to bullet adapter.
or
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-XT60-male-t ... SwvZZZdcC1
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 09, 2017 4:27 pm

OK. The price is right as soldering is a royal pain in the ass.

However when I plug them in will I get the correct, or the reverse polarity ? The positive bullet plug coming FROM the packs needs to be a male bullet plug because I have five or six controllers which already have female positive bullet plugs soldered on them.

As long as that is correct then it would be a great idea and I will order them. I have already burnt out more than one variable controller and is why I took the time to solder them all so when I am tired or a little drunk it is physically impossible to hook them up backwards.

When soldering the motor wires from the controllers I simply use two female bullets on the controller side and males from the motor to the controller. I do this and put blue tape on positive and yellow on negative. The reason why is simple. Most times I use the same motor on different bikes when doing rebuilds like the one I will be working on soon so if I turn the motor around the other way I do not have to re- solder the plugs just put new tape over the connectors.

Thanks and please let me know if the polarity will be right on those. thanks.

http://prntscr.com/hldkqo

OK I just ordered the right ones. Thanks DA. That saved me a lot of hassle soldering. I am lucky I had enough $$$ on the card. I will still need to solder bullets to the charger when it shows up. Eventually I will want a better charger if I order more of these packs. I wish there was a 48 volt pack with BMS also for a good price.

I looked for a 48 volt pack similar to these 36 volt packs but did not see it. I need to do something in my spare time anyway so why not build a 48 volt pack out of those type of cells. Please post the best deal possible. If I go with the larger LIFEPO4 cells and build 6S packs which can be run in series I could build two large packs 24 cells each (4 rows of six) and charge them with my LiPo charger which will charge 6 cell LIFEPO4. Not sure on capacity but should be able to get a deal on larger cells at least 4 Ah per cell, the 3.2 volt cells.

When I get the $$$ I can order maybe 2 or 3 boxes and with four rows of six in series parallel maybe wont need a BMS but I could still get one I guess if it is absolutely necessary.

Below it shows that my 200 watt Skycharger will charge either 3.7 volt cells or 3.2 or 3.3 volt LIFEPO4 cells. In fact the Mega charger Dan sent me is 400 watts and may do all the battery cell types also.

It really does not make any sense for me to not invest in the larger LIFEPO4 cells. With a 400 watt charger I can build 2 - 36 cell 19 volt packs and run them in series. I can also build three and run them in series for 59 volts. These packs would be for 50 miles or more.

However for the dual motor build it would be better to run the 18650 - 3.7 volt cells as fully charged to 4.2 volts and 48 cells total (two 6S packs four rows of 6 cells in series) Even with sag voltage should remain stable for several miles at 4V or higher per cell.

If I have to wire a BMS then I guess I will have to but it really makes absolutely no sense to NOT build packs that I can easily charge with either 6S Lipo charger. The only reason I bought the 36 volt packs was the price and I can run all my bikes at 36V but I can also run two of my bikes at 24 volts and all my bikes will run off 6S packs LiPo, Lion or LIFEPO4.

Please let me know or post a link for each (3.2V and 3.7V) I am looking for minimum 20 a bok up to 100 or more. I will look now but do not want to buy garbage cells. Thanks.

LC out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 10, 2017 6:28 pm

IMG_3010.JPG
Schwinn 26" mountain bike frame. 24" mountain bike wheels.

The front forks were turned around the wrong was as I wanted the brakes behind , not in front of the forks. However it was easy to turn the forks around the right way and turn the brakes around and they actually do work. :D The handlebars fit and after hack sawing a 1/2 inch off the bottom of the goose neck the 24" forks fit perfect.

The bike frame seems solid. However there is a major weak link. The 24" forks. The drop outs seem kind of weak and the forks in general NOT strong enough for dual motors , 1,750 watts total and 37.5 mph.

I was going to wait and order better forks but this build is based on parts I already own. Besides what would Mad Max do if that is all he had to escape from Thunderdome. He would not be ordering stronger forks from e bay and waiting around a month or two. :lol:

I have a plan which will use the brackets which install the front motor which will not only also strengthen the steering system to the point of no fail but will also SUPER reinforce the drop outs many times stronger than any torque arms can do and also strengthen the forks besides mounting the motor. Yes folks it does four things. Stronger steering. forks , dropouts and a motor mount.

The pictures on the bottom show a crude description of what I intend to do. It will be similar to the dual motor set up. Heavy duty pressure treated 1 - 1/4 by 1 -1/4 " I think it is. It is really strong stuff and will bolt to the handle bars and two bolts will secure those to the forks on each side.

The other difference from the 20" build is they will also bolt to the 1/4" flat steel bar on the bottom two bolts on each side running thru the pressure treated wood and the forks and a hole will be drilled for the axle to fit thru the bottom. Everything from the top of the BMX handle bars down to the axle will be connected. It would probably be similar to something Mad Max would come up with.

The spoke sprocket took a couple of hours to remove from the 20" wheel and install on the 24" wheel.

The rear end is already strong and the other motor should mount easily back there. 1,000 watts in the back and 800 watts in the front. The front Hub motor on the Schwinn is 1,000 watts so I do not know why anyone would object with a 800 watt chain drive on the front.

I am really hoping that this build will be a safe and semi professional build most members here would ride themselves. It is not a 50 mph suicide bike and would only go 40 mph down a hill or sleight decline.

Top speed will be 37.5 mph on flat pavement respectively and I will hook up rear brakes also before it is finished. Also with future upgrades like four 36 volt packs for the front motor and a 24 Ah 48 Volt custom pack for the rear the range and hill climbing capability will be exceptional.

Thanks.

LC out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 12, 2017 5:52 am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Wrong wheel. :oops:

the 56 tooth was supposed to go on the front not the 60 tooth.

It took me 3 hours to change it. Also I can install the rear motor first and run it at 36 volts for 2250 rpm and 26 mph gearing. That will make sure everything is lined up. I will need a longer chain and the rear rack has a broken bolt which will need to be extracted and replaced on the top part. Also the wheel has a slight wobble so will need to true it.

The cassette is also shot but Dan sent me two new ones so one of them should fit for pedal. I wonder if there is a high enough gear for 40 mph pedal. The gearing is for 37.5 mph but what if I changed the crank so I could have a really high pedal gear ? Also how much pedal power would it take as my leg can't pedal that hard ? The two motors would keep it at 37.5 at full throttle so I would only need 2.5 mph more.

Also when I install the front motor I can run that at 24 volts , 1,834 rpm for 25 mph gearing and run them both at 1,283 total watts with the 25 mph gearing. I am thinking a couple of weeks and at least 50 miles checking the chains and adjusting them if needed.

Once I am satisfied that it is a well oiled machine with good brakes front and rear then I can hook up the 48 volt controller in the rear and the 36 volt up front for 1,800 watts and 37.5 mph. I will prove to all of you that the build will be solid and safe and will post a lot of videos to prove it. Thanks for posting. :(

LC out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 12, 2017 8:38 am

1800w motor output ...
Could get you 37.5mph
If geared optimally, 2250w battery output
From 4x Sona packs (576Wh) @ 4C = ~528Wh
528Wh / 2250w = 0.23466 hours (14 minutes) cruising on level road
minus a minute + "wasted" battery for each stop-start x4 =
10 minutes @ 37.5mph or 6.25 mile range
Probably less than 35mph for less than 5 miles if geared as poorly as typical ...
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 12, 2017 4:38 pm

Thanks DA.

I am not looking to cruise at 37 mph for extended periods of time but would like to for a minute or two once in awhile and that would make me happy.

As far as going any distance I would be interested in 25 to 30 mph average that to 27.5 mph for 50 miles. I am really glad you finally posted regarding this build. Top speed is not the only priority for a dual motor bike. It is also about sharing the load with two separate motors and controllers heat dissipation is 100% better than a single motor at any given speed and also discharge rate with separate batteries for each motor.

For example if I build a decent high capacity 48 volt pack for the rear motor and hook up four of the 36V packs to the front regardless of what speed I travel the discharge rate will be 1/2 for each battery pack than if I only ran a single pack. I do not know how to do the math on that like you do however I grasp the concept.

I do realize however that it could be geared better especially for going up hills however I am looking to compensate with a full set of at least 18 pedal gears if possible. I have many bikes just sitting around with very good parts which are new or almost new. Good working brakes as well as shifters , derailleurs cables ect.

If I were to pedal assist up the steeper hills or whenever I hear the motors struggle a bit when climbing that could make up for the higher gearing. A really high gear could maybe even get me to 40 mph on the flat but is not as important as pedal assist up the hills.

Obviously it will take some time to make this all happen and is why it is officially my winter project as I want it to be done right. Also I will easily have the option to stop on long trips for a ten minute break and switch controllers from 48V to 36V rear and 36 to 24V front for 1,283 watts with 26 mph gearing if I build two 6S high capacity packs from decent 18650 packs.

It is as simple as turning off the power switches and unplugging and plugging in bullet cables. Actually if the bike runs better at 1,283 watts it could be my default mode and only run at the higher voltage if I want to make a video or know that I will have a long flat run with no steep hills so I can cruise at about 30 mph for awhile.

I can run in series for 48 volts and in parallel for 24 volts. and simply hook the 36V packs to the rear motor and the huge 24V pack to the front. That is if there is a very steep hill and it would work better at the lower rpms for gearing.

This bike will be great if it can do adequate pedal assist and have enough battery capacity to go about 50 miles once I build a large capacity pack. Also if I were to be 20 miles away from home and have a controller issue or motor failure with one of the motors (either one) I would have a simple back up plan to make it home. Hook the 24V controller to the single motor for the best gearing possible and 10 to 15 mph with light pedal assist on the level and walk up any decent size hills.

Now that you all know it is not just another hair brained scheme to try to reach 40 mph, does anyone know of a really good deal on a large box or LIFEPO4 3.2 V cells as I have two capable chargers and would like to build at least two 6S high capacity packs which I can run at 6S or 12S so I can finally have a 50 mph capable bike.

I plan on ordering at least two more of the 36V packs or however many I will need to equal the watt hours of the large LIFEPO4 pack so together they have a 50 mile range. :D Thanks again DA.



LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 19, 2017 6:51 pm

IMG_3020.JPG
As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo fire burns. Not as easy as it looks on you tube.

Two packages have arrived in the mail since my last post. One is the 36 volt Lion charger which I soldered the bullets two after cutting the useless three prong plug of of it. I wrapped the bare wires around the multi-meter then plugged it in to make sure the polarity was correct before soldering the bullets. I still need shrink wrap which I need to pick up.

The adapter wires from China are on a really SSSLOOOOOW boat and if not lost at sea or sunk by Korea may show up one day but could be the first week in January. Should have ordered from a US vendor.

However the spoke tool came in the mail quick and have spent many hours just on that one wheel tightening and loosening the spokes and the bolts on the spoke sprocket. Last night I thought it was ok but not perfect and did a couple more spokes and made it a lot worse and had to loosen all and start over.

Truing a wheel is not easy at least for me. I am thinking if there were a way to lay the rim on something flat so only the rim touches and tap it with a rubber mallet it may make it closer to perfect. With #420 chain it might work but not sure about 37.5 mph. Mabye 26 mph if I run it at 36 volts. Not sure but truing a wheel is difficult. It seems almost impossible to get it even close to perfect. Any ideas please let me know. Please post when you can and will do a short video later on this wheel. Thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxOihxr ... e=youtu.be

LC out.

PS. I think I would rather be working on a belt drive for wheels which are bent a little as a belt is more flexible and wont come off as easy as a chain at high speed and wont do as much damage if it hits something like me. All I need is a simple part number for the attachment to a Unite motor which has the dual D bore shaft.

However after many hours of looking an not seeing it. Any help on that would be greatly appreciated as I would like to use that 24 volt 500 watt motor and put it on a rear rack of a 29" Mongoose next month after I order the rear sheave kit for the rear wheel.

Please let me know. I do not want to order the wrong part. I am looking for the specific part which will go on a Unite motor sprocket. I am sick of bent rims and chain drives and do not wish to order another Currie rim for $120 like I had to do with the Currie for pedal on one side and motor on the other. They do not even make one for 24" wheels.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 22, 2017 1:37 am

As the hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Two motors is better than one. Dual hub vs dual chain.

I was just thinking that if I ever fix the spoke on the front 26" hub motor on the Schwinn I will order a second 1,000 watt for under $200 on e bay and put it on the back for dual 1,000 watt hub motors.

Also I decided to leave the 20" cargo bike alone for now with a possible 36 volt 1,500 watt 30 mph upgrade by hooking up two 36 volt Chinese controllers each to two of the 36 volt Lion packs.

therefore I will be ordering another 48 volt 1,000 watt motor and 48 volt Chinese controller for the front of the dual motor bike I am working on now.

Then there is the 29" Mongoose with dual disk brakes. That will be a belt drive and that 1,800 watt 48 volt brushless motor will be ordered for that.

Then last but not least is HUBZILLA for the back of the Haro V3. Yes I will be ordering the Cro-motor for that for 60 mph. :evil:

Then sometime after that will be the 125 cc dirt bike frame and the FX -75-5 motor for the East Coast Death Bike for 100 mph. :twisted: :twisted: Thanks for posting. :cry:

LC out.




I
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Dec 22, 2017 9:52 am

Sounds like you are having fun!
I think you need to read more on the cro-mo motors. They are wide and will not fit a normal width frame. Also I think it would rip the drop outs on that frame. Is the Haro steel or Alloy? You don't want to spread an Alloy frame hardly at all. Most monster motors are wider than a normal width. Steel frame can handle the spread if needed, but not too far.

AS always These are just my own thoughts and you can do as you please as you always have. I to will do what I thought would work and most times they have. The one thing I did was to spread a Alloy frame to fit a wider hub. That was not a good thing as the frame broke. I was lucky that I was only doing maybe 10 to 15mph whan I hit the brakes for a red light when it snapped. No warning just snap. I even managed to ride it home very slow with much care. I had to build a new swing arm from Chromoly at the right width. We all live and learn, at least I lived to learn :lol:

Good luck with the builds and hope You and the Ol-Lady have a MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

Dan

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 22, 2017 5:35 pm

cromotor.png

That issue with the frame not fitting has already been thought of and there is the solution.

Only two things stop me from ordering Hubzilla for my Haro V3.

1. battery options. I will need 120 - 108 volts or three 36 volt packs fully charged to 42 volts to achieve 60 mph. That will either be about 12 of those 36 volt Lion packs in parallel series or a very large LIFEPO4 pack. the other option being Lipo but would need five Multistar 20.0 - 6S packs.

2. Cash. looks like about $1,500 minimum if I do a custom 120 cell LIFEPO4 pack.

I wish I just went all out and ordered it two years ago when I got my disability settlement. I got over $3,000 in one chunk. Now I definitely do not have cash like that. I was not ready for that much power back then. However the Cro motor is a tinker toy compared to the FX - 75-5 motor sitting in a box with the controller locked away in my spare bedroom. :D

To be honest for right now I would be more than happy to simply have the exact parts needed to build my 29" Mongoose with the 1,800 watt brush-less motor but would like to squeeze 2 kilowatts out of it with the controller it comes with and 40 mph gearing and belt drive.

That would be an awesome Christmas present - The exact part for the roller which would fit on the 1,800 watt brush-less motor. This dual chain drive project I am working on is way more difficult than a belt drive. Also DA mentioned that belt drive is like friction drive and old technology compared to a hub motor.

However the FX - 75 -5 motor looks like a belt drive deal. The thing which really is discouraging is if I cant find a simple roller part and belt for a Unite or brush-less motor how am I going to find what I need to get the FX-75-5 motor going when I do get a dirt bike frame.

Anyway I hope everyone here has a Merry Christmas.

LC out
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Dec 22, 2017 11:54 pm

Yep, those adapters will work. Is the FX brush or less? If brushless you could use the controller with the CRO-MO.

The FX is running a COG belt, same as I ran on my Enduro kart only mine was wider. That was 40 years ago, SOME things have gotten much better since then.

Dan

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 23, 2017 8:52 am

Cro motor is a lot of money.

an 1,800 watt brushless drive is a lot cheaper and lightweight so on a 29" pedal assist is a 35 mph cruiser for belt drive and it has both disk brakes not just front so to hell with 40 mph lets go with 35 and help me out with the parts I will need. all i need is motor attachment and belt for the sheave.

I got the rest. Thanks.

LC out.


PS. again I have looked and looked but a bolt on part for any motor to work with that sheave kit I posted awhile back looks like impossible to find.

I must disagree with belt technology as older technology and a hub motor as the better bang for the buck by any means. For $50 a 24V 500W motor like the one on the back of the 20" cargo bike can do 1 horsepower or 750 W at 36V with a $13 Chinese controller.

No 750 watt Hub motor kits are $63. The Sheave is $34 and a belt cant be much so I do not see any advantage with a hub motor if I only knew how to attach the pulley wheel to a Unite motor or the 1,800W brushless for the upgrade.

Proving my point. There is a wide variety of brushless motors that are not hub motors for a better price out there. The only reason for NOT ordering one is the missing motor pulley wheel attachment and belt to mate it to the sheave kit to complete a working drivetrain. Please let me know.

LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 23, 2017 12:25 pm

latecurtis wrote:
Dec 23, 2017 8:52 am
I must disagree with belt technology as older technology and a hub motor as the better bang for the buck by any means. For $50 24V 500W motor like the one on the back of the 20" cargo bike can do 1 horsepower or 750 W at 36V with a $13 Chinese controller.
Belt drive is circa 1900 motorcycle technology.

Don't forget the price of your sprocket mount, wheel sprocket, chain sprocket and chain ... not to mention the cost, labor and unreliability of your motor mounts!
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Dec 23, 2017 2:40 pm

So what kinda belt will you run, V belt type?
So what is the size of the motor shaft? 12mm, 13mm what. The flats make no difference if you find a pulley the right size as long as it's tight. https://www.mcmaster.com/#pulleys/=1at924t
Look here.

You can say what you want but a hub motor is much easier to install and to maintain. As for cheap, they are all over. Get a whole kit from 150 and up. Some times you get a real deal and others you don't. A 29" might be a challenge but you could run a 26" since you have disc brakes.

They seem to cost more but it all adds up as DA said.

Dan
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by tomjasz » Dec 23, 2017 4:18 pm

DrkAngel wrote:
Dec 23, 2017 12:25 pm

Belt drive is circa 1900 motorcycle technology.

Good land man, nearly everything we do was developed first over a century ago, how is that relevant?
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 23, 2017 7:38 pm

1910 belt.jpg
1910 belt.jpg (211.47 KiB) Viewed 277 times
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 23, 2017 8:09 pm

which motor.png
Thank you guys for posting and taking an interest in a belt drive project.

What I am loving is the simplicity of very few moving parts in a build. the sheave kit is $34 with hardware and the roller for the motor should be 10 to 20 bucks as well as the belt.

That is all needed for the drive-train. basically three units. Yes the hub motor is more simple as it is a single unit but I own two hub motors. An 800 watt awesome fully functional hub motor capable of running 36 volts and is my heavy duty cargo hauler as DA stated when I first got it. Then I got the 1,000 watt 26" front hub motor which needs a new spoke and and a truing which I have the spoke wrench.

Then there is the current project. A dual chain drive. I have the 1,000 watt 48 volt motor which I ordered from e bay but looks exactly like the one above. The thing I am questioning now is do I want to take the two motors off the fully functioning 20" cargo bike I spent hours to build to struggle with a second dual chain drive. The answer to that is absolutely not.

I am thinking about scrapping the dual chain drive and 37.5 mph project for a 26 or 28 mph 1,000 watt belt driven 29" pedal assist belt drive and possibly ordering the 1,800 watt brush-less motor later in the spring for the Haro V3 if the controller will work with a custom built 54 volt LIFEPO4 pack for 40 mph gearing at 5,062.5 rpms and 2,025 watts.

That also means I will scrap the Cro motor idea completely also as 40 mph is as fast as I want to go with a 26" mountain bike frame.
Spending over $1,000 on a large hub set up makes no sense when I can invest that kind of money in a off road dirt bike frame and batteries for the FX - 75-5 project.

Also what Dan said made sense when his frame snapped. I think the Haro is aluminum so even with the fancy rear torque arms to mount that beast a 6.000 watt continues motor for 60 mph is way too much for an aluminum 26" frame.

The brushless motor 1/3 the power at 54 volts and 2 killowatts could still break something but if I am easy on the throttle and use common sense when doing 40 mph by wearing a helmet and finding a long stretch of clear road I will be better off than with a Cro motor on a bicycle doing 60 mph. :mrgreen: Also my wallet will be a lot better off. :lol:

Thanks for that post on the motor pulleys and will not be using the 24 volt 500 watt motor but do want to use the other two in the picture at the top of this post. Please let me know and Merry Christmas to all here on ES and especially those who post on this thread.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Dec 24, 2017 12:21 am

LC, if you could measure the broken spoke, I might have a few, too many. You need to measure from the inside of the elbow to the tip of the treads. Take a good one off if you need to. Get as close as you can. MM or inches, I might have one. I bought out a Crystalite dealer out a few years ago. Sold the motors as I don't like them but have spokes and misc.

Dan

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Dec 24, 2017 3:42 am

Ok awesome. I will get back to you on that.

got family showing up for holidays and got to concentrate on the house but after that I will see if I can get one off and sen a pic of it with the tape measure. Thanks.

Lc out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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