recumpence
1 GW
I think Ben has me beat in the fabrication skill department, though. I bow to him as the Samurai of ebikes. :wink:spinningmagnets said:
Matt
20 inch full suspension street build (now with twin motors)
- Thread starter recumpence
- Start date
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
I want to answer a question I get regularly by email and PM;
I have been asked numerous times about the safety of bicycle components tolerating this much power and speeds above 30mph (this bike will be good for 50 to 60 mph depending on how I end up gearing it).
The answer is multifaceted.
First of all, I use the highest quality components I can buy. Downhill mountain bike parts are fantastically strong.
Second, I have many proprietary parts on my bikes. This bike uses custom made 47mm wide, double wall rims made for me by Jetset. I make the drive to my personal specs, and I use only heavy duty chain on the drive side.
Third, the brakes I am using are designed for 26 inch wheels in downhill use. With 20 inch wheels, the load on the brakes (and suspension side loading) is drastically reduced. Also, I am using the largest front disc I could buy at the time. It is 240mm.
Fourth, EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE! There are a few of us on this forum who have experience in extremely high horsepower systems married to bicycle components. We have broken many parts looking for the correct combination. At this point, I instinctively know what componentry to run in combination with other components to achieve the performance and reliability (and durability) I am looking for.
Matt
I have been asked numerous times about the safety of bicycle components tolerating this much power and speeds above 30mph (this bike will be good for 50 to 60 mph depending on how I end up gearing it).
The answer is multifaceted.
First of all, I use the highest quality components I can buy. Downhill mountain bike parts are fantastically strong.
Second, I have many proprietary parts on my bikes. This bike uses custom made 47mm wide, double wall rims made for me by Jetset. I make the drive to my personal specs, and I use only heavy duty chain on the drive side.
Third, the brakes I am using are designed for 26 inch wheels in downhill use. With 20 inch wheels, the load on the brakes (and suspension side loading) is drastically reduced. Also, I am using the largest front disc I could buy at the time. It is 240mm.
Fourth, EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE! There are a few of us on this forum who have experience in extremely high horsepower systems married to bicycle components. We have broken many parts looking for the correct combination. At this point, I instinctively know what componentry to run in combination with other components to achieve the performance and reliability (and durability) I am looking for.
Matt
MitchJi
10 MW
HI Matt,
Something like starting a thread and reserving the first 10-15 posts. Then at the beginning of the thread either start with an overview, and maybe with information about 1 or 2 tools. Then gradually add either a single tool or a few tools at a time.
I think the information you can provide would be very useful to a lot of members. Maybe you need to break the job up into smaller pieces?recumpence said:
Something like starting a thread and reserving the first 10-15 posts. Then at the beginning of the thread either start with an overview, and maybe with information about 1 or 2 tools. Then gradually add either a single tool or a few tools at a time.
recumpence
1 GW
Here you go. 
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66576
Matt
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66576
Matt
Cicada
10 W
Congrats mate, this must be a fantastic ride! Let us know performance details when you know.
recumpence
1 GW
Will do.
I have a bunch of carbon panels on the way. Wait till you see what I have in store.
Matt
I have a bunch of carbon panels on the way. Wait till you see what I have in store.
Matt
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
Cmon Matt, let's see you hooning that bad boy on some of those gnarly snow piles!
recumpence
1 GW
Hah! That is the domain of the Motoped.www.recumbents.com said:
When the weather breaks, you gotta swing by and ride this thing. It should be running by then.
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
Hey Guys,
Sorry I have not posted anything new in a while.
Here is where the project stands at this point;
I have everything needed to complete the build either on hand or on order. Justin and I have been going back and forth about using the CA on this thing. In the end, I am in deed going to use the CA with a 200 amp shunt. Justin says it will be fine pulling twice that amperage for very short bursts. Also, between Justin at E-bikes.ca and Tommy from Outrider, I think I have the programming figured out. The bike will also have delta/wye switching using 6 relays per motor (small one inch cube relays with 100 amp continuous rating). I plan on making a carbon fiber instrument panel and side covers. The carbon panels just arrived for this part of the build.
Today I spent two hours on my Motoped project. All parts are now at the powder-coater. So, I will be working on the instrument cluster and carbon bits for this black bike while the Motoped parts are being colored.
I will update both threads as I have info on each build.
Matt
Sorry I have not posted anything new in a while.
Here is where the project stands at this point;
I have everything needed to complete the build either on hand or on order. Justin and I have been going back and forth about using the CA on this thing. In the end, I am in deed going to use the CA with a 200 amp shunt. Justin says it will be fine pulling twice that amperage for very short bursts. Also, between Justin at E-bikes.ca and Tommy from Outrider, I think I have the programming figured out. The bike will also have delta/wye switching using 6 relays per motor (small one inch cube relays with 100 amp continuous rating). I plan on making a carbon fiber instrument panel and side covers. The carbon panels just arrived for this part of the build.
Today I spent two hours on my Motoped project. All parts are now at the powder-coater. So, I will be working on the instrument cluster and carbon bits for this black bike while the Motoped parts are being colored.
I will update both threads as I have info on each build.
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
pendragon8000
100 kW
Lookin good. Re the Garmen, was this always going on here, did you biy it for the bike. It seems like the sort if thing if you had a spare one you might put it on. Beautiful installation though.
Any tips for working on CF? I've heard you need water or something?
Any tips for working on CF? I've heard you need water or something?
recumpence
1 GW
I bought the Garmin specifically for bike use. It may look a little big. However, it was cheaper, easier to read, and more functional than a bicycle unit. It is also easier to use. I ride at 40mph much of the time. I cannot be straining to look at a tiny screen that is shaking on the handlebars going that fast. This screen is AWESOME to view while riding! I looked at smaller automotive GPS units and settled on this particular one. I also like the digital dashboard part of it.
CF is super easy to work with. You just have to know something specific about it;
CF is EXTREMELY hard and abrasive! You must treat it like ceramic. So, to cut it, you need a masonry bit. To drill it, you need a carbide drill bit (diamond is better). Using a masonry cutting bit, it cuts like wood. Also, the black dust gets everywhere. Make sure you do not breathe it. It is not super toxic, in the respect that it is not poisonous. However, it is definitely NOT good for your lunges. If you inhale a small amount, you will be fine. But, take whatever measures that are reasonable to keep it out of your lunges. Also, make sure you blow the dust off your clothes before going into the house. That black dust is like smoke. It permeates everything......
Matt
CF is super easy to work with. You just have to know something specific about it;
CF is EXTREMELY hard and abrasive! You must treat it like ceramic. So, to cut it, you need a masonry bit. To drill it, you need a carbide drill bit (diamond is better). Using a masonry cutting bit, it cuts like wood. Also, the black dust gets everywhere. Make sure you do not breathe it. It is not super toxic, in the respect that it is not poisonous. However, it is definitely NOT good for your lunges. If you inhale a small amount, you will be fine. But, take whatever measures that are reasonable to keep it out of your lunges. Also, make sure you blow the dust off your clothes before going into the house. That black dust is like smoke. It permeates everything......
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
More pictures.
In these pictures, you can see the packs. It has 40ah of 12S lipo on board. The total bike weight is 85 pounds (83 pounds in the pictures). I need to make the harness and it is finished. I have a delta/wye relay assembly for it too. In wye it should run 30mph and in delta that speed should be 52mph.
I am not going to run the CA on this bike after all. I have been testing it on a customer's twin motor bike and the CA (no matter how high I program the current limit) insists on taming the power too much. This bike has Delta/Wye switching, a throttle end point POT, and my torque limiter. All of that will make the bike tame enough to ride (when I want it tame) and a fire breathing monster with the flip of a switch. :wink:
Oh, it should be good for 50 to 60 miles on a charge depending on how I ride it.
Enjoy!
Matt
In these pictures, you can see the packs. It has 40ah of 12S lipo on board. The total bike weight is 85 pounds (83 pounds in the pictures). I need to make the harness and it is finished. I have a delta/wye relay assembly for it too. In wye it should run 30mph and in delta that speed should be 52mph.
I am not going to run the CA on this bike after all. I have been testing it on a customer's twin motor bike and the CA (no matter how high I program the current limit) insists on taming the power too much. This bike has Delta/Wye switching, a throttle end point POT, and my torque limiter. All of that will make the bike tame enough to ride (when I want it tame) and a fire breathing monster with the flip of a switch. :wink:
Oh, it should be good for 50 to 60 miles on a charge depending on how I ride it.
Enjoy!
Matt
Attachments
cwah
100 MW
From the picture it seems that the front brakes are super big compared to the bike.
I'm going to ask you because it happened to me and I recently had an accident bringing me to hospital with that:
- in case of urgent braking (eg. a car suddrently appear in front of you), don't you risk to use the front brake too hard and flip the other way around?
- it does look like a 50mm suspension, is that enough for potholes at high speed? Usually mountain bike have 200mm suspension
I'm going to ask you because it happened to me and I recently had an accident bringing me to hospital with that:
- in case of urgent braking (eg. a car suddrently appear in front of you), don't you risk to use the front brake too hard and flip the other way around?
- it does look like a 50mm suspension, is that enough for potholes at high speed? Usually mountain bike have 200mm suspension
recumpence
1 GW
The front rotor is 240mm. I ran this brake on my red Hooligan. It is not too powerful at all. I would really have to grab it super hard to flip over. Any smaller rotor will turn blue from the heat. This is the best rotor I have ever run.cwah said:
The front suspension is 80 mm and the rear is 100mm travel.
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
Yes, delta/Wye switching by a handlebar button on the fly (complex bank of relays).macribs said:Can you switch delta/why on the fly of a button now? I remember you said something about that earlier.
Man I look forward to see some videos of this bike. You made a monster
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
ferret said:
Yup, I agree. I plan on shortening a set of inverted forks (probably Groove 180s) for it at some point. But, for now, these are fantastic performing forks for what they are.
Matt
Chalo
100 TW
recumpence said:
Where do you get 240mm rotors and caliper mounts? Are the rotors thicker than normal? I wouldn't mind trying something like that.
The pedicab fleet I work with used to use 203mm rotor disc brakes, but those proved to be so vulnerable to warpage that they've all been switched to 160mm. 160mm cable discs are reliable, and strong enough for the job.
The hydraulic rear brakes on most of those pedicabs are a constant nuisance, and they constitute the most intractable maintenance issue in the whole fleet. After dealing with 50+ trikes, some with hydraulic discs and some without, I can't imagine why anyone could possibly suggest that bicycle hydraulic brakes are worth the trouble. That experience confirms my impression from many years of servicing regular single bicycles. Hydraulic brakes work fine, until they don't-- and then they really don't, and they're a bear to set right. But at that point all the cable brakes are still working fine, and still easy as pie to service when necessary.
recumpence
1 GW
It is a Hayes rotor. The rotor comes with the caliper bracket. It is a standard thickness rotor. I only run Hope hydraulics. They are the most reliable brakes I have ever run.
Matt
Matt
aCeMadMod
1 kW
The front rotor is 240mm. I ran this brake on my red Hooligan. It is not too powerful at all. I would really have to grab it super hard to flip over. Any smaller rotor will turn blue from the heat. This is the best rotor I have ever run.
Matt[/quote]
hi, i know how hard it to get biggers disc rotors, i think you wrong the Hayes rotor Don"t any bigger then 224mm and the suck, wight alot any don't brake well try get better Hope mono 6Ti rotors 220mm or 225 much Better i have 5 of them and hope do costom rotors has well. you have wiat 3 to 6 months for it. not cheap
the other 2 band that 220 mm rotors but they all hard to get, Formula rotor 220mm is one
it was one place makeing 240mm for downhill about 10 year ago in usa, did not last to big and folder up hard brakeing.
cost about $150 usd at the time
you sould some better brakes, hope motos 6 or Magura m brake , and the some brake has good but very rare.
it save all of you time try to look for one 240mm rotors, thank you
Matt[/quote]
hi, i know how hard it to get biggers disc rotors, i think you wrong the Hayes rotor Don"t any bigger then 224mm and the suck, wight alot any don't brake well try get better Hope mono 6Ti rotors 220mm or 225 much Better i have 5 of them and hope do costom rotors has well. you have wiat 3 to 6 months for it. not cheap
the other 2 band that 220 mm rotors but they all hard to get, Formula rotor 220mm is one
it was one place makeing 240mm for downhill about 10 year ago in usa, did not last to big and folder up hard brakeing.
cost about $150 usd at the time
you sould some better brakes, hope motos 6 or Magura m brake , and the some brake has good but very rare.
it save all of you time try to look for one 240mm rotors, thank you
recumpence
1 GW
wow, no offense, but you have no idea what you're talking about. I've been running this brake for a year without any problems. It is not heavy, works very well, has very good lever feel when used with Hope brake calipers, and is very high quality. This is the best brake I have ever used in all of my years of high performance bike building. Also, motoped uses these brakes exclusively. Their bikes are a lot heavier than anything else, and they have reported no problems with these rotors at all. I don't mean to sound rude, however, you have no idea what you're talking about.
macribs
10 MW
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2014
- Messages
- 3,702
Do you know the name of the rotor? Seems Hayes have a large collection of rotors. But I can't find any 240mm.
What is your lever and caliper setup. I know you said hopes but curious to know exact, as I am looking for good front brake due to heavy bike and heavy rider.
What is your lever and caliper setup. I know you said hopes but curious to know exact, as I am looking for good front brake due to heavy bike and heavy rider.
Similar threads
