MitchJi
10 MW
Hi Matt,
This bike is as nice as the Motoped. Maybe you should produce frames for sale?
This bike is as nice as the Motoped. Maybe you should produce frames for sale?
20 inch full suspension street build (now with twin motors)
- Thread starter recumpence
- Start date
Matt's bikes remind me of Neil Saiki's first bikes, only nicer.
https://evmc2.wordpress.com/2014/01/04/zero-motorycles-timeline/
I would like to think there is a market for something between an electric assist bicycle, and a motorcycle, but I don't think our transportation system is designed for it. There are lots of mopeds, and scooters in my area, but the riders get no respect from other road users at all.
https://evmc2.wordpress.com/2014/01/04/zero-motorycles-timeline/
I would like to think there is a market for something between an electric assist bicycle, and a motorcycle, but I don't think our transportation system is designed for it. There are lots of mopeds, and scooters in my area, but the riders get no respect from other road users at all.
StinkyGoalieGuy
100 W
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2008
- Messages
- 298
recumpence said:
Thanks. Ok, so it was more skillful control of a handheld tool instead of some fancy setup.
recumpence
1 GW
MitchJi said:
We are looking at all of our options. We only have so much time to devote to product development. Right now we are focusing on OEM development for a couple companies.
Who knows what the future may hold, though. :wink:
Matt
Teramax
100 µW
Nice build!
I had some narrow bars and the cross country stem on my e-bike, like yours, and swapped the stem from 120mm to 60mm and put some 100mm wider bars on. As long as the transfer of weight to the rear doesn't promote wheelie too much or cramp you up I'd give it a go. Sounds like you'd be ok with a shorter stem with all that weight forward. More leverage, centre of bars closer to steerer tube also helps turn, and more comfy sitting position, and looks cool too. Love your machining.
Bit worried about what you saying about ally inserts in carbon fiber. The bikes I worked on (pic below) has plenty of this going on. I did rough the spools up heaps on the bandsaw before they were put on the jigs to wrap carbon strands around (like internal bones under the skin). Carbon was still in it's early stages then, the wheels were the first carbon wheels on a bike. As for heat treating aluminum, a hobbyist pottery kiln was used. We had a manual lathe and mill and a single tool CNC mill that had to be programmed in G-code, all second hand. Everything was done in house.
Ordering my first Astro Flight next week. Like the sound of this Wye to delta switching. Better go swat up then come pestering for info!!!
I had some narrow bars and the cross country stem on my e-bike, like yours, and swapped the stem from 120mm to 60mm and put some 100mm wider bars on. As long as the transfer of weight to the rear doesn't promote wheelie too much or cramp you up I'd give it a go. Sounds like you'd be ok with a shorter stem with all that weight forward. More leverage, centre of bars closer to steerer tube also helps turn, and more comfy sitting position, and looks cool too. Love your machining.
Bit worried about what you saying about ally inserts in carbon fiber. The bikes I worked on (pic below) has plenty of this going on. I did rough the spools up heaps on the bandsaw before they were put on the jigs to wrap carbon strands around (like internal bones under the skin). Carbon was still in it's early stages then, the wheels were the first carbon wheels on a bike. As for heat treating aluminum, a hobbyist pottery kiln was used. We had a manual lathe and mill and a single tool CNC mill that had to be programmed in G-code, all second hand. Everything was done in house.
Ordering my first Astro Flight next week. Like the sound of this Wye to delta switching. Better go swat up then come pestering for info!!!
Attachments
recumpence
1 GW
Hey Guys,
Sorry for the lack of responses. I have been swamped lately.
I remember the Britten. I used to have that very magazine.
I have been going through my bike trying to smooth out everything (throttle response mainly). I added a large choke to the PWM output lead and moved the PWM wires farther away from the motor phase wires. This smoothed out the response quite a bit. The bike is much easier to ride now. I am also looking at some mechanical updates as well as possibly different controllers (I am not devulging what kind just yet). New controllers could push this thing from 32,000 Watts peak (battery watts drawn) to well over 40,000 watts peak. I know the motors can handle it. I want to gear the bike back up to 55mph. But, that gearing pushed the little Edge controllers into shutdown when pushed really hard. So, I had to gear it down to 46mph as it is now. 46 is fine, but, I do not like the 26mph in Wye that I am stuck with. I prefered it when I was seeing 34mph in Wye and 55 mph in Delta (once in a while I like being able to hit that speed). I think I found a controller that will handle this. We have used it in a marine application with good success. But, I am not sure if it will run well on a land based vehicle. The startus algorithm may or not be correct. Also, I have no idea what the low speed performance will be. These are monster controllers, though. They are good for 63 volts at 380 amps for 10 seconds, 330 amps continuous.
I will keep you posted.
Matt
Sorry for the lack of responses. I have been swamped lately.
I remember the Britten. I used to have that very magazine.
I have been going through my bike trying to smooth out everything (throttle response mainly). I added a large choke to the PWM output lead and moved the PWM wires farther away from the motor phase wires. This smoothed out the response quite a bit. The bike is much easier to ride now. I am also looking at some mechanical updates as well as possibly different controllers (I am not devulging what kind just yet). New controllers could push this thing from 32,000 Watts peak (battery watts drawn) to well over 40,000 watts peak. I know the motors can handle it. I want to gear the bike back up to 55mph. But, that gearing pushed the little Edge controllers into shutdown when pushed really hard. So, I had to gear it down to 46mph as it is now. 46 is fine, but, I do not like the 26mph in Wye that I am stuck with. I prefered it when I was seeing 34mph in Wye and 55 mph in Delta (once in a while I like being able to hit that speed). I think I found a controller that will handle this. We have used it in a marine application with good success. But, I am not sure if it will run well on a land based vehicle. The startus algorithm may or not be correct. Also, I have no idea what the low speed performance will be. These are monster controllers, though. They are good for 63 volts at 380 amps for 10 seconds, 330 amps continuous.
I will keep you posted.
Matt
Chalo
100 TW
Carbon fiber to aluminum joints suffer galvanic corrosion and poor long term adhesion unless they are electrically isolated from each other. This is typically accomplished with a thin intermediary layer of glass.
recumpence
1 GW
Yup exactly. When embedding aluminum in carbon, normally one layer of fiberglass is used as an insulator. Titanium does not have that problem. You can embed titanium in carbon fiber directly without a problem. In fact, Pagani weaves titanium stands into their carbon fabric creating "Carbotanium".Chalo said:
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
With all I have to do, I am still developing this bike.
Here is the latest;
These are DNM USD-8 forks that I reduced travel from the stock 200mm to 80mm. I also dropped the triple clamps. These mods made the forks useable for 20 inch wheels. These forks were added to counter act the flex I was encountering in the aluminum steerer tube of the single crown MRP RC80s that were on the bike. The RC80 is a fantastic fork! But, they were above their limit on this high power bike. These USD-8s are many times stronger. I took advantage of this oportunity to raise the ride hight as well as the handlebar hight. This was not easily accomplished with the other fork (for various reasons). The new bar hight feels far better. I have not ridden it other than one short ride so far because I still have to install the front rotor and route the brake line as well as shorten the plastic fork guards. So, I do not know how the handling will be. I do know these forks have poor compression damping. So, I may have to do some revalving to improve them. But, I know they will perform far better than the RC80s that were on the bike.
I will post pictures when the details are completed and I have test ridden them hard. :wink:
Matt
Here is the latest;
These are DNM USD-8 forks that I reduced travel from the stock 200mm to 80mm. I also dropped the triple clamps. These mods made the forks useable for 20 inch wheels. These forks were added to counter act the flex I was encountering in the aluminum steerer tube of the single crown MRP RC80s that were on the bike. The RC80 is a fantastic fork! But, they were above their limit on this high power bike. These USD-8s are many times stronger. I took advantage of this oportunity to raise the ride hight as well as the handlebar hight. This was not easily accomplished with the other fork (for various reasons). The new bar hight feels far better. I have not ridden it other than one short ride so far because I still have to install the front rotor and route the brake line as well as shorten the plastic fork guards. So, I do not know how the handling will be. I do know these forks have poor compression damping. So, I may have to do some revalving to improve them. But, I know they will perform far better than the RC80s that were on the bike.
I will post pictures when the details are completed and I have test ridden them hard. :wink:
Matt
Attachments
dequinox
10 kW
Gyaddaaayyuuum! That thing rips @#$%#! What a beautiful build Matt, as always... and completely shattering the concept of form vs function.
Thanks for the inspiration! Any care to put a $ figure on what went into this? If I had to guess I would say close to $6k. Did I miss the mark?
Thanks for the inspiration! Any care to put a $ figure on what went into this? If I had to guess I would say close to $6k. Did I miss the mark?
recumpence
1 GW
dequinox said:
You are very close. I would say that is what I have into it. But, bear in mind, I use mostly stuff I get at cost or that needs work and modify and rebuild it to suit my needs.
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
The fork installation is finished. All I have to say is, WOW. These forks make a big difference in the bike in many ways. First, the chassis stiftened up noticeably. Second, the ride over bumpy roads is drastically improved. Third, the turn in is better. Fourth, the road feel through the bars is fantastic now! And the fifth item is a strange one..... The front brake has far better feel and action. The other forks must have been flexing quite a bit under load.
Oh, one last thing, the bike is much easier to wheelie controllably now. I think the added weight and bar hight are the cause of that improvement.
I couldn't be happier!
The next thing is to try those new controllers out. 760 amps (both controllers combined) at 63 volts should be fun...... :wink:
Matt
Oh, one last thing, the bike is much easier to wheelie controllably now. I think the added weight and bar hight are the cause of that improvement.
I couldn't be happier!
The next thing is to try those new controllers out. 760 amps (both controllers combined) at 63 volts should be fun...... :wink:
Matt
Attachments
nutnspecial
10 MW
First off crazy awesome power. It scares me!
Second, I'm looking at the usd8 forks as an upgrade from older 888 170mm. My main issue with the 888's is they're not to be adjusted below 22.5 (center axle to top of lower crown).
It looks like the usd can go much lower, as you've shown. I am only looking for about 20" spacing, would this be possible in their stock form?
Second, I'm looking at the usd8 forks as an upgrade from older 888 170mm. My main issue with the 888's is they're not to be adjusted below 22.5 (center axle to top of lower crown).
It looks like the usd can go much lower, as you've shown. I am only looking for about 20" spacing, would this be possible in their stock form?
recumpence
1 GW
First of all, I think the manufacturers say not to drop the tubes in that clamps for wheel clearance, not for any strength reasons.
Second, the USD-8 is a great for for this, however, the new style forks have outer stanctions that vary in thickness. So, you have to make sure the triple clamps happen to end up at a location on the out leg that has the correct diameter to allow proper clamping.
If you look at a closeup of the fork legs you will see what I mean.
Matt
Second, the USD-8 is a great for for this, however, the new style forks have outer stanctions that vary in thickness. So, you have to make sure the triple clamps happen to end up at a location on the out leg that has the correct diameter to allow proper clamping.
If you look at a closeup of the fork legs you will see what I mean.
Matt
nutnspecial
10 MW
Thanks recompence, I wasn't 100% on clamping over top of internals. That makes sense though.
In order to use the fork without limiting travel, I wonder what the lowest fork setting measures from axle to top of 1st crown. Just trying to figure it out- manufacturer only lists total height (29.6) , which I assume to top of uncut steerer.
If it's not much less than 22.5" axle to crown I already have some 888's with the same issue. To get the proper head angle and bb height, fork needs lowered into it's travel.
Btw the motoped is an awesome offroad rig, but wow your street build rolling up to 47mph is sick! I need to learn more about delta/wye switching and if/how it's a fit for the low tech bht.
In order to use the fork without limiting travel, I wonder what the lowest fork setting measures from axle to top of 1st crown. Just trying to figure it out- manufacturer only lists total height (29.6) , which I assume to top of uncut steerer.
If it's not much less than 22.5" axle to crown I already have some 888's with the same issue. To get the proper head angle and bb height, fork needs lowered into it's travel.
Btw the motoped is an awesome offroad rig, but wow your street build rolling up to 47mph is sick! I need to learn more about delta/wye switching and if/how it's a fit for the low tech bht.
recumpence
1 GW
I measured my stock USD 8 forks and they are 21 inches from axle center to the bottom of the lower triple clamp.
Matt
Matt
StinkyGoalieGuy
100 W
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2008
- Messages
- 298
Matt, those chain guide wheels next to the cranks, are those the ones you turned on the lathe using skateboard wheels? Are they quiet when the chain is getting pulled through them?
recumpence
1 GW
Yup, skate board wheels. They are quiet enough.
Matt
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
Just a quick update;
Everything on the bike is working wonderfully. The only issue I have had that is annoyingly persistant is front brake squeal. I think I have it cured, however, by using softer compounds pads as well as cutting grooves in the pads and roughing up the rotor surface.
The Delta/Wye switching is absolutely PHENOMINAL! I know there are reasons not to use this type of arrangement. But, for my application, it is just awesome! I have beat this thing all summer without problems. It runs well, everything runs nice and cool, nothing has broken, and it just runs without complaining.
I guess the reason I want to keep you guys updated is to show that high output is not always synonymous with unreliability. Technology is improving and our knowledge of these systems is growing.
Matt
Everything on the bike is working wonderfully. The only issue I have had that is annoyingly persistant is front brake squeal. I think I have it cured, however, by using softer compounds pads as well as cutting grooves in the pads and roughing up the rotor surface.
The Delta/Wye switching is absolutely PHENOMINAL! I know there are reasons not to use this type of arrangement. But, for my application, it is just awesome! I have beat this thing all summer without problems. It runs well, everything runs nice and cool, nothing has broken, and it just runs without complaining.
I guess the reason I want to keep you guys updated is to show that high output is not always synonymous with unreliability. Technology is improving and our knowledge of these systems is growing.
Matt
fredfire
100 mW
We need another video with this "quick update"! Your work is awesome and very inspiring.
Can you show the wear on the drivetrain, I feel the belt is safe but the chain seems small for this kind of power.
Can you show the wear on the drivetrain, I feel the belt is safe but the chain seems small for this kind of power.
recumpence
1 GW
Yeah I know, I need to take better video.
As for showing drivetrain wear, there is none to show. The chain is a heavy duty trials chain. So far it is holding up very well. The idler wheels started wearing to match the profile of the chain links. Now that the wheels have worn to match the chain, the wear seems to have stopped or slowed to an indecernable level.
Matt
As for showing drivetrain wear, there is none to show. The chain is a heavy duty trials chain. So far it is holding up very well. The idler wheels started wearing to match the profile of the chain links. Now that the wheels have worn to match the chain, the wear seems to have stopped or slowed to an indecernable level.
Matt
drewjet
10 kW
Matt,
As usual, your build are awesome and inspiring.
As for Delta Wye switching. I have run a Delta Wye switch, using just a manual switch on my mountain bike that has your V1 Drive on it. I love it. 2 reasons, 1 is that it makes it easier on the controllers and motors if you are doing slower speeds, and 2 the increased throttle control at lower speeds doing single track riding where control is extremely important.
Any info on the "other" controllers you are testing out?
As usual, your build are awesome and inspiring.
As for Delta Wye switching. I have run a Delta Wye switch, using just a manual switch on my mountain bike that has your V1 Drive on it. I love it. 2 reasons, 1 is that it makes it easier on the controllers and motors if you are doing slower speeds, and 2 the increased throttle control at lower speeds doing single track riding where control is extremely important.
Any info on the "other" controllers you are testing out?
recumpence
1 GW
drewjet said:
No info on the new controllers yet. I am going to be testing one on a single motor system I have here before I invest in two of them for this bike.
They are liquid cooled units designed for HUGE RC boats.
Matt
cwah
100 MW
would your config beat Dr.Bass 32KW dual drive config?
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71646&start=75
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71646&start=75
recumpence
1 GW
drewjet said:
Geeze, I have no idea....
I would say that the problem with his setup is two wheel drive becomes useless when the front gets light. All of the power my bike makes is delivered to the rear wheel. So, I can actually put that power to the ground. That being said, there is no way of knowing what bike would be quickest without pitting them against each other.
Matt
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