2022 Velo Orange Neutrino minivelo, Nine Continent RH212 rear hub motor

[Mongo]

For 2024, I've started on a beach bike build of a sort (flattish terrain anyway), blowing off the cobwebs off an analog Neutrino bike I've had for a while. I've wanted to tinker with a rear hub motor-powered build for a while now, so here's the first one. The tentative build list is as follows:

• Velo Orange Neutrino frameset, size large
• Grin Technologies Nine Continent RH212 rear hub motor CA3 kit, with the recommended fast-wind version (for 20" wheels), and Statorade
• fender eyelet torque arms, tentatively modified/adapted to work with the frame's rear sliding dropouts
• V6 Baserunner controller, tied to a V3 Cycle Analyst display and related controls,
• 68mm ERider-T17N torque-sensing BB, with a 5-bolt 130BCD spider
• front Sun Ringlé Ryno Lite, rear Weinmann DM30 rims
• Schwalbe Super Moto X tires
• microSHIFT 9-speed group
• front/rear gearing TBD, but starting with a 50T front chainring and a 11-38 9-speed cluster
• 180/160mm front/rear brake rotors, front TRP Spyre cable brake caliper, rear e-cheapo BUCKLOS, with Jagwire Compressionless brake housing
• Copenhagen Dual Leg Kickstand, center lever drop post
• 52-volt 17-25AH downtube mounted tray-style batteries

"Do it right the first time" is my hope, using a known motor from a reputable vendor. The kit delivery is probably a month out or so, but that's ok. I purchased Grin's wheel-building services, thinking that experienced hands would do better than mine, with such short spokes in a somewhat oddball arrangement.

Knowing little to nothing about hub motors, I vacillated between the RH212 and the Bafang G310, mainly because of the weight of the former, but concerned about the heat-shedding abilities of the latter. Then there's the GMAC, which may be my next motor should the RH212 not be the right match. Hot & humid summertime riding conditions are an issue where I live - bright sun and high temps mean everything gets and stays hot. Fortunately, I can run high volume rear tires, which may help with the RH212 weight/inertia penalty.

Detail pictures will follow, as the build progresses.

 

[Mongo]

Here's an in-progress build update on the "little friend" or "little terror" - most of the parts are on, but just loosely bolted up. I need to source a rear disc brake caliper that clears the motor housing (my go-to TRP Spyre caliper does not), and there are a few other straggler parts, as is typical for these builds.

So here's the rough initial assembly:


For the Grin fender eyelet torque arm mock-up, here's what I've cobbled up so far:


I notched the dropout slider to capture the torque arm bolt head:


I applied power, the CA display lit up, the throttle worked and the motor spun, so that's the status for now. I'm looking around for tall axle nuts with 19mm flats (so I can carry a smaller wrench).

 

[Mongo]

For the rear disc caliper, I ended up with a sub-$10 BUCKLOS single-sided actuation mechanical unit that clears the motor casing, and with a smallish 160mm rotor that clears the kickstand. The front brake on my bikes is my go-to, so I'm generous up front with big rotors, better calipers, and premium pads.

Related to my motor selection, the RH212 tonnage really annoys me, but I don't know enough about these motors to know what one would have been a better choice. Like with choosing the Bafang BBSHD versus the BBS02 - mass helps with the heat - at least that's my guess for now.

I'm also wondering if I should add another torque arm on the left side - rigged the same as the current right side one, as insurance and to help with regen forces.

I fiddle with the build every now & then - no rush, really. It won't be a daily rider, and is mainly a hub motor learning platform.

 

[nicobie]

Can't have too many t. arms especially on a high powered bike.

 

[Mongo]

Thanks @nicobie for the note/confirmation - the other thing the second torque arm would do is further trap the axle in the dropout, like the right side one does.

Fixing a rear tire flat roadside will be a PITA anyway, so what's a little more hardware to fiddle.

 

[99t4]

That is an interesting looking dropout system. Apparently part of the derailleur hanger? Is it just an open slot in the plate? Does the plate slide F-R?

I have resigned myself to carrying all the (extra) tools necessary for removing the rear wheel in case of a flat. Lucky so far haven't had to use them-- the flats I have had on the road were repairable by pulling the affected portion of the tube out between the tire and rim and patching it that way.

 

[Mongo]

Hi @99t4 - this frameset has sliding rear dropouts from I.R.C., I think - they're similar to ones made by Paragon Machine Works. Similar, but not exactly the same dimensions 'cause that would be standardization, and we can't have that!

Sliding, rocker, or other interchangeable or replaceable dropouts (like Salsa's Alternator dropouts) allow for:

• fixie or IGH chain or belt tensioning
• QR, solid, or thru-axle compatibility
• varying O.L.D. dimensions (to a slight degree)

I also suspect that the overall dropout area strength is increased, though this may be wishful thinking. All of my builds have replaceable dropouts. I like Salsa's design the most:

On the hub motor axle nuts, if I can find suitable nuts with 19mm wrench flats there are several wrenches available, such as vintage Japanese motorcycle axle nut box wrenches to chainsaw bar socket wrenches.

 

[E-HP]

On the hub motor axle nuts, if I can find suitable nuts with 19mm wrench flats there are several wrenches available, such as vintage Japanese motorcycle axle nut box wrenches to chainsaw bar socket wrenches.

Can you remove the wheel without removing the axle nuts, by unbolting the dropouts, and disconnecting the derailleur from the hanger?

 

[Mongo]

Not easily @E-HP, because the sliding dropouts won't just slide out rearward while still bolted to the motor - they're captured into the corresponding frame fixtures. I found and am using 19mm nuts now, doubled up - I'd just like to find better ones. Flats happen, often in a blistering sun, and I like to make it as easy and straight-forward as possible with as few fiddly bits as possible to drop/lose, etc.

 

[99t4]

So you are looking for a slim 19mm combination wrench?

 

[Mongo]

Yup - these 19mm Honda wrenches can be had for around $5, and stubby combination wrenches for not much more:

There's also lightweight chainsaw wrenches - if I could find one with 19/10mm ends that would be better:

 

[Mongo]

The bike's not done (when are they ever?), but today I took it out for a shakedown. I still need to order/install a second torque arm (P.S. - done), but I think otherwise, the bike is close.

Grin did a great job pre-configuring the Baserunner, and I only had to fiddle with a few things, such as units, wheel size, and the torque sensor.

It seemed quick, but I didn't have a GPS with me to calibrate against. It easily huffed up a short bastard hill near me (not the terrain I intend the bike for), and worked very well. the Cycle Analyst display will take some getting used to, compared to the other motor displays I have.

After the inaugural flight:

The bar cables are still a bit long, so I can try other bars & stems.

The Baserunner controller mounting plate is bolted to bottle bosses on the bottom of the down tube. Some open, unused connectors still need capping:


I think I can get a "b"-shaped cable clamp under the kickstand plate, to secure the motor connector:


CA hanging in the breeze:


P.S. - the two torque arms installed:

 

[nicobie]

clean!

 

[chuyskywalker]

Looks great. Regarding the "small mechanical rear brake" -- that's fine, just turn on regen

You've got the direct drive, the Baserunner/CA combo means you can turn on the "if brakes are active, throttle is now proportional regen" mode which is fantastic. You can also try out "pedal backwards to engage and modulate regen" which I haven't tried, but seems kinda fun.

 

[Mongo]

Thanks @chuyskywalker - Grin turned on regen, and I saw the message pop up on the display when I braked - a first for me, being a mid-drive owner/rider mostly. I didn't know about the backpedaling trick - thanks!

 

[Mongo]

clean!

Thanks! I need to do some more wiring positioning dress-up, among things (ergonomics too) - the fiddling never ends. Now's a good time to do it, with days of rain in the forecast.