DIY Newb FAQ?

E-HP

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I think I've read through all of the stickies in the ebike forums, which provide great guidance. Yet, I see a lot a new folks getting into ebikes and posting questions that are not in the stickies, or are embedded somewhere among the existing stickies. Another observation is there are "graduating" ebikers that started with a simple kit and are moving on to another build from components, or are replacing components of their kits.

I'm wondering if there's a value to a DIY Newb FAQ, for both cases. I was thinking of a format like below. This is only showing the proposed format and some examples that may fit into it. Anyway, I thought maybe a Newb specific sticky might be helpful, and easy to find if titled that way. Is there an appetite here for something like this? I know all of this can be found with a search, but my other observation is that new folks don't use the tool as much, since you kind of need to know what to search for, or how to.

DIY Newb - General
Simplified Diagram of a Battery, Controller, and BLDC Motor​
BLDC_DC_Motor_with_Hall_Effect_Sensors-1.jpg

The Parts of an Ebike System

Learn links Grin ebike learning page

Motor Concepts https://www.maxongroup.com/medias/sys_master/8798985748510.pdf

General:
You cannot build an ebike that can go 50 MPH with a 60 mile range for "$1000" If you have a donor bike, you expect to build one with some combination of 20mph to 27mph top speed and 20 to 30 miles of range, for that investment. Speed vs. range are a trade off if your budget is fixed.​

How far, how fast, etc.:
  • The Grin Motor Simulator is a great tool for determining how an ebike will perform based on the criteria entered; read of the instructions and start playing
  • Trip Simulator - Change the Input at the top left of graph to Google Maps and right click your start point and end point then move the route line to your desired route by dragging the line holding the left mouse button down.
......
...

Kits Vs Turnkey - Why DIY?
Conversion Kit Selection
Looking for an ebike conversion and not sure where to start? Things to consider:​


DIY Newb - Kit builder (all components were purchased as part of a kit, battery with a compatible connector may be purchased separately)
Ebike kits are usually comprised of a motor and controller plus optional peripheral components, such as a display, pedal assist sensor, and throttle. Some kits may also include a battery as an option, but in most cases, the battery is purchased separately. In the case of the latter, the battery should be purchased, selecting the same type of connector as the controller accepts.​
Kits are an easy way to get into DIY ebiking, since all components are compatible and usually "plug n play".​
In many or most cases, a kit becomes an introduction to ebiking, and can provide the DIYer a great experience. Over time, many DIYers will "outgrow" their kit as they begin to discover areas where they may want more options or increased performance, range, comfort, etc. In other words, kits are seldom a "one and done" option, but rather a learning experience about the DIYer themselves and what their desires are, after the initial glow has faded.​
Some DIYers may know this about themselves well before delving into this new hobby. For those folks, they may want to keep in mind flexibility in kit components that may allow an upgrade path for the future. An example of this would be selecting a kit that has a controller that can operate across a range of voltages (e.g. 36V/48V/60V), that allows the DIYer to initially power their kit at a lower voltage, with the ability to upgrade just the battery rather than battery and controller if they desire more speed or torque in the future.​

Tools:
Required: Hand tools for installation;​
Optional/recommended (useful for troubleshooting): Digital Multimeter (DMM)​
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...​
...​
Kits:
A complete ebike kit often comes with a bldc controller, display (and buttons), brake cutoffs/levers, PAS sensor and laced hub motor. There may or may not be an option to purchase a battery at additional cost. Some kits may include lights. Mid drive kits often replace the bicycle's bottom bracket, crank arms and front chain ring, and utilize the bicycle's existing drivetrain. The kit will also include/require some peripheral components that are usually included. Battery will be purchased separately.​
Important Note: If a display is part of the requirement, then it is important to purchase the controller and display as a set. Purchasing separately is not recommended. See note under the Display section below.​

Batteries:
If the deal is too good to be true, it is. A general rule, as of (Month/202#), for a pack made with name brand cell (Samsung/Sanyo/Panasonic/LG/Sony) $5 x the total number of cells in the pack is the minimum you should expect to pay. If the pack is made with generic Chinese "highest quality A grade cells", or similar description, you might expect to pay $3 x the total number.​

Terminology: Most lithium ion packs use series of cells that make up the pack voltage; typically 36V, 48V, 52V, and 72V. Respectively, the number of corresponding series cells for those voltages are 10, 13, 14, and 20. The total pack capacity (amount of energy stored) is based on how many series groups are placed in parallel, and the capacity of each cell. Packs may be described by voltage and capacity (52V 15Ah) or by their component make up (for example 14S5P), which describes the number of series cells (14S) and the number of parallel group (5P). In the example below, lithium ion cells are used.​

"S", combined with the voltage specs for the cells used, will determine the voltage of the pack. So, 14S means 14 series cells, and in this example, each with a nominal voltage of 3.7V; 14 x 3.7 = 51.8, or a 52 volt pack.​
"P" is used to determine the current stored, and discharge capability of the pack. This again depends specs of the cells used (for example 3000mAh, with a discharge capability of 10A). So for a 5P pack, 3000mAh times the number of parallel groups (5 in this example); yields 5 x 3000 = 15000mAh or 15Ah stored. 5 x 10 = 50A discharge capability.​
So the example pack, using lithium ion cells, each with 3500mAh stored and 10A discharge capability, in a 14S5P configuration provides 15Ah with a 50A max output.​
BMS (Battery Management System)​
Manages a battery pack, monitoring voltages and currents, at both pack and cell levels, in order to protect the cells, keeping them within their specified ranges. The BMS may also perform balancing functions in order to keep all cells in the pack at the same voltage.​
Common Port (single) vs Separate Port (dual) BMS​
A common port BMS has a charge port and discharge port electrically connected. If the BMS detects high voltage, it cuts off charging, if it detects low voltage, it cuts off load. The separate port BMS has the load and charge port electrically separate. The BMS It can shut off charging at a specified voltage. I can disconnect load due to low voltage, but not disconnect charging. Common vs Separate port become more relevant when battery packs are combined either in series or in parallel, and how protection of the packs can be maintained. In most situations where packs are combined, common port BMSs can continue to protect the packs independently. Some two pack configurations can still work with one pack having a common port, while the second uses a separate port BMS.​

Notes on battery safety:
  • Don't leave your bike charging while unattended. If you're leaving the house while charging, just set it on fire yourself when you leave, so you won't be surprised when you get home.
  • Don't ignore/dismiss/condone odd battery behavior. Don't make assumptions about the cause. It almost always will lead to issues if not addressed.
  • Don't assume charging will correct issues, other than balancing. Don't charge until the problem is properly diagnosed and corrected.
  • A battery shouldn't be getting hot while discharging, unless you are discharging near or above the rated output. The battery should be taken out of service until diagnosed. It could lead to a fire while riding.
Cell database: Cell Database

Torque Arms:
If you choose a direct drive motor, and the kit doesn't include a torque arm, you should purchase one (or two). Don't cheap out on torque arms, they must fit tightly to be of use; ideally an interference fit. Note that torque arms included with economy kits are only barely better than nothing, so the cost of a quality torque arm should be included in the project budget, or risk possible catastrophic failure and injury.​
  • Threads:

  • Links:
    • Torque Arms on Hub Motor Bikes
      Grin makes high quality front and rear torque arms" Yes very good ones; here is their info page.

DIY Newb - Component builder/upgrader (some or all components were not purchased as part of a kit)
The DIY component builder chooses various components to support their end goal. The components may not be directly plug n play, but may require testing and troubleshooting, as well as physically modifying things like connectors in order for the components to be connected together. Patience and discipline are required in order to not damage components when they are connected or operated. The reward for the component builder is building an ebike that is specifically tailored to the needs of the particular DIYer, and while sometimes challenging, provides an ebike better matched to DIYer, and almost always worth the additional work.

Tools:
Required: Hand tools for installation; Digital Multimeter (DMM); soldering iron and/or crimpers; some installations may require connectors, heat shrink tubing, electrical tape, etc.​
Optional: motor tester​

Troubleshooting:
Because a component build will likely not involve a simple assembly of "compatible" parts with matching connectors or conductors, it is important to build troubleshooting skills using a disciplined and methodical approach. The findings of each step eliminate the "wrong" solutions, in order to eventually lead to the correct solution, while not damaging any of the components in the process.​
Frequently Newbs attempt to short cut the process by using a guess and see what happens approach, trying different things, connecting wires and connectors randomly, which frequently leads to damaged equipment. Electronics can be very unforgiving.​
Displays and Display Resources:
Displays from different brands are not usually compatible. Even displays that are the same brand as a controller don't guaranty compatibility, due to firmware variations**, so purchasing the controller with the display will provide better assurance of compatibility. Some display manufacturers can support different controller brands, provided they are flashed with compatible firmware.​
** Some displays have been reported to have selectable communications protocols. ES thread
Common Display to Controller Manufacturer Compatibility (actual compatibility may be dictated by firmware):​
** Several variations of the ZQ-100 display/throttle exist, and are not interchangeable. Some are 5 wire and some are 6 wire. Some of the similar models include, the LH-100, QS-S4, JH-01, NJAX-T, in both 5 and 6 wire versions. The majority of these display throttles combinations are used in electric scooter applications, and less frequently for ebikes. Note the throttle signal output may be the traditional analog voltage or in many cases a digital signal that only a compatible controller can utilize.​
*** The SW900 uses many versions firmware making it compatible with specific controller manufacturers or models. In other words, a SW900 with firmware compatible with a Lishui controller, will likely not work with a Sabvoton controller, for example.​
Displays and/or Controllers supported by Open Source Firmware (custom/enhanced firmware developed by the user community):​
Controllers (additional information provided below, in the controller section) -​
Displays -​
KT LCD3 used in conjunction with TSDZ2 mid drive*​
VLCD5, VLCD6, XH18, LCD3, 860C, 850C, SW102 used in conjunction with TSDZ2 mid drive*​
*Torque sensing PAS support
Custom Displays
CT-22 (speedometer, odometer, voltage, and status display)
Grin Cycle Analyst, computer and dashboard*:
*Torque sensing PAS support

Controllers and Controller Resources:
Votol - Qima Technology
Nanjing Fardriver - far-driver
XLD (XunLiDa Electronics) Brainpower -​
JN, JH (often labeled "DC MOTO CONTROLLER BY LITHIUM BATTERY" or "Brushless DC Motor Controller") -​
Bafang - OEM Area
Note: Throttle Control Modes - The controller's MCU determines how a throttle input signal translates to output to the motor. It may do so by taking the throttle input voltage and translating that to a target RPM (speed), or to power, or current (torque). The mode may dramatically change how the motor responds to a throttle input.​
Many budget controllers use an RPM based throttle control. Under this type of control, the controller will output full power until it achieves the target RPM and then drops the power to maintain that RPM/speed. This can make both the PAS, and especially throttle, difficult to control, with a feeling of the motor surging or pulsing, but may be preferred under certain applications.​
Most programable controllers, as well as the Cycle Analyst, have the ability to change between throttle control modes to the user's preference. Note that since the Cycle Analyst operates under a closed loop (monitors voltage, current, and speed), it can implement all three control modes even when the controller's native mode is speed based.

eBike Lighting?
  • Very few aftermarket controller can fully support ebike lighting
  • Plan on challenges if upgrading a controller on a factory ebike with integrated lighting
List of controllers with lighting functions (work in progress):​
  • KT controllers. Some have a lighting function that is controlled via the button pad. The output of the lighting connector is not sufficient to drive lights, but is sufficient for powering a relay to turn on the light. The output is limited to 70mA


PAS:
Pedal assist sensors fall into two general categories, cadence based PAS and torque sensing PAS. Note that in order to implement PAS, other components, such as the controller must also support the PAS function and interface with the pedal assist sensing unit.​

Cadence: Cadence PAS can operate in a couple modes, depending on how is supported by the controller. Simple cadence PAS can provide assist when the pedals are turning forward, regardless of how fast the pedaling is. To control the amount of assist, the controller may have control buttons to select a fixed level of assist, by PAS level. Cadence PAS may also operate in a manner the changes assist based on how fast the pedaling is, again, based on what is supported by the controller.​
Torque: Torque sensing PAS operates based on pedaling effort. The amount of pressure applied to the pedals will determine the amount of assist provided. Pedaling harder increases assist. The controller used for torque sensing PAS may also have PAS levels, similar to cadence PAS, that adjust the overall assist level, but the amount of assist at any given level is still determined by pedal pressure. Some torque sensing PAS units also support cadence sensing to further adjust assistance based on the cadence.​
PAS controllers:
Not all controller support PAS, but ones that do usually support cadence PAS, which is common with budget controllers. PAS support will usually be described in the controller's documentation or on its label.​
Torque sensing PAS controllers:
Controllers supporting torque sensing PAS are less common, and usually more expensive. Below is a non-exhaustive list of controllers that natively support torque sensing PAS*:​
  • Grin Phaserunner, Baserunner controllers
  • Grin cycle analyst computer/display (used with any controller with a throttle input)
  • Some models of KT controllers, however these may not be currently available. B. B. Torque Sensor System (link provided by member stancecoke)
  • Some Lishui controllers
  • Some controllers that normally don't support PAS, or only support cadence, can support torque sensing PAS when the controller or display is flashed with open source firmware. Some KT controllers and Lishui controller fit under this category.
* Cadence and/or torque sensing, can also be supported by some peripheral components, such as the Grin Cycle Analyst (see above), that will process the PAS signal prior to passing it through to a non-PAS supporting controller.
Wiring:
There are no wiring standards or wire color coding standards. If you are building from components, you cannot count on things working, just because you matched the wire colors on the connectors between devices. Use your DMM and realize that touching the wrong combination of wires can destroy electronics, instantaneously.​

Common (not standard) controller connector wiring:
Throttle: 3 conductors - GND, 5V, signal​
Some throttle units have other functions like controller on/off or voltage displays, so those throttles will have 2 or 3 additional conductors, in addition to the three used for throttle.​
PAS (cadence): 3 conductors - GND, 5V, signal. Some systems (e.g. Grin), use a higher voltage input​
Motor Phase: 3 large conductors. usually Blue, Yellow, Green​
Motor Hall Sensor: 5 thin conductors. usually Blue, Yellow, Green (phase hall sensors), Red, Black (5V and GND powering hall sensors). If a sixth wire is present, usually White, it may be used for a speed sensor or temperature sensor (see motor specs).​
Battery Power: 2 large conductors. usually Red (battery positive), Black (battery negative)​
Brake (cutoff) switches (low brake):​
  • 2 conductors for most generic Chinese controllers: N.O. switch (normally open when lever is not engaged) on the brake side connector; GND and signal (~5V via pull up resistor) on the controller side connector
  • 3 conductors: GND, signal (~5V), 5V. The 5V may or may not be used, but could provide power to a hall sensor, for variable braking/regen for instance.
Brake switches (high brake): to be added​
Display wiring, single wire: to be added​
...​
Self-learning: Usually two single wire connectors (male and female JST, often white), when connected runs an autotuning routine to determine the correct hall and phase wire combination. Once set, the wires are disconnected for normal operation. Note that in some cases, the self-learning routine may also set the battery voltage level for controllers that support more than one input voltage.​
Anti-theft:​
Wire Gauge Current Limits:
Connector References:

Motors and Motor Resources (work in progress)

Hub motors
Direct Drive​
xxxx​
Geared Drive​
xxxx​
Locked geared drive​
xxxx​
Mid drive motors (DIY)
Bafang​
BBS##​
Tong Sheng​
TSDZ2​
CYC​
X1 Pro​
X1 Stealth​
Photon​
Custom/kit/misc​
Stokemonkey​
Testing, Tuning, and Troubleshooting Resources:
Testing guides by Tommycat -​
...​
Wheel Building:
Buy & Build?
DIY factory bike modder (work in progress)
Potpourri (A collection of interesting solves and links)

Chinglish to English Translations (work in progress)
  • 3 Position Switch/3 Speed Switch/3 Grade Switch/3 Grade Speed/Gear HML : Controls 3 power or speed levels of the controller; the middle position is default
  • Electric Key Lock/Key Switch/Electric Door Lock/Ignition/Power Lock : Controller on/off; usually applying battery level voltage to the signal wire turns on the controller (frequently a thin orange conductor).
  • Lack Voltage : Low voltage cutoff
  • Learning/Learning Line/Self-study/Self-learning/Automatic Detection/Automatic Identification/Auto Learn/Intelligent Recognition/ : Motor Hall and Phase detection. Jumper to enable automatic detection of motor hall/phase combination
  • Low Brake/Low Voltage Brake/Low Power Brake/Brake Signal Line/ : Brake Cutoff
  • Throttle/Speed Governor/Accelerator/Turn Handle/Speed Steering Handle/ : Throttle Input

Change Log:
05-03-21 - added general statement to General section and wiring to Component section. changed formatting, added torque arm links
05-27-21 - added 99t4 and markz contributions
07-01-22 - added links to Grin torque arm page
01/17-23 - added ebike lighting section
01-23-23 - added precautions with regards to batteries
03-19-23 - added link to motor concepts (provided by stancecoke on separate thread); started display model to manufacturer list
09-16-23 - added hyperlinks to display manuals
01-09-24 - added section on open source firmware
01-27-24 - added Chinglish to English translations section
02-09-24 - added self-learning notes in wiring section
02-18-24 - added Wire Gauge current limit link from slaphappygamer, TommyCat testing guides
07-31-24 - added Cycle Analyst section, and Cycle Analyst 3.15b6 - Settings Summary provided by slaphappygamer
08-05-24 - added framework for Motors section. added link to q factor post related to BBSHD by ebike4healthandfitness
10-15-24 - added link to battery cell database provided by Diggs
01-03-25 - added note on throttle control modes to Controller section
01-06-25 - reordered sections
01-12-25 - added display protocol info provided by amberwolf (link to stancecoke ES post)
02-11-25 - added custom display section
03-13-25 - added Potpourri section to collect interesting solutions and uncategorized links
03-19-35 - started BMS subsection under Batteries (work in progress)

Last observation: Most of the stickies appear to be threads that are made into stickies, so the information is scattered within the threads. It would be nice if when information is added by folks, that at the end the mods could consolidate into the main sections for easy access.

EDIT: Thinking about how a lot of members use translators when accessing the site, paragraphs probably don't work as well. I'm not sure, I don't use them much. Bullets are probably easier to understand.
 
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Strongly agree. Many (most?) of the stickies have not been updated in years, some more than 5 years since!

Good to include solid info on TAs for DD hubs, but IMHO the language for torque arm quality could be even more forceful. Even with the "don't cheap out" language, some will still go ahead and get the Grin v.1 TA clone on Ali, etc. that is known problematical. Can we link to or show examples of the preferred quality specimens?

Another point to make in the "DIY Newb - General" section is to explain the un-reality of expecting to build a 50 MPH 60 mile range e-bike for "$1000 preferably, possibly able to budget up to $1300 if need be."

Lots more points to consider. This work could quickly become overwhelming. Need to find a competent editor who can compile the info efficiently and whip it into shape in a format that (as you importantly noted) translates well.
 
99t4 said:
Lots more points to consider. This work could quickly become overwhelming. Need to find a competent editor who can compile the info efficiently and whip it into shape in a format that (as you importantly noted) translates well.

Thanks. I think I'll try updating the first post, by editing it, and as newb questions come up in the forum(s), and can add the questions (if not already addressed) and the responses received from the experts. That way the information will stay in the first post, and easier to copy and paste into a sticky, if the mods feel like it will add some value or save time.

I'll beef up the torque arm part and the unrealistic expectations per your suggestion.

It'll be a work in progress for now. Thanks again for the feedback.
 
E-HP said:
Torque arms: If you choose a direct drive motor, and the kit doesn't include a torque arm, you should purchase one (or two). Don't cheap out on torque arms, they must fit tightly to be of use.
  • Threads:
    • https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=93562&hilit=torque+arm+photos
      https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56621
We'll have to find some TA threads more appropriate to newbs. The first one is certainly interesting but applies mainly to the GMAC motor. Might be too taxing to expect newb to read thru 8pp of interesting development&testing progress that ultimately doesn't give them instant gratification. The second link is a YT video that I cannot access ATM so will not comment yet.

Something like this https://www.electricbike.com/torque-arm/ seems to me better suited for newb. If similar does not exist on ES [EDIT: I have not found it yet] we could just CliffNotes it into this thread, talking about especially the section approx. 1/3 in where it describes the Grin Double Hoseclamp Universal Torque Arm. Could even link to this page https://ebikes.ca/product-info/grin-products/torque-arms.html which gives a good illustrated description on the necessity for a TA, and the reason to avoid the V.1 version and its ubiquitous clones.

I think the goal is to reinforce the requirement for the TA and give them an easy simple high-quality solution that will work for most common cases.
 
Not everybody had the time to answer that noobs questions over and over. I did, back when I was sick in bed, waiting to die in 2010. Now I'm recovered and would rather be out riding. And what I know is getting out of date, fast.

A really good sticky answering the basic newb questions it a great idea. Others have done some great stickies, but more technical and aimed at more advanced builders.
 
As above, excellent idea. Too bad new proponents can't be required to read before asking the same questions repeatedly.
 
Trip Simulator - https://ebikes.ca/tools/trip-simulator.html
Change the Input at the top left of graph to Google Maps and right click your start point and end point then move the route line to your desired route by dragging the line holding the left mouse button down.

Learn links - https://ebikes.ca/learn.html

Spoke Calculator - https://ebikes.ca/tools/spoke-calc.html

Looking for an ebike conversion and not sure where to start?
https://ebikes.ca/getting-started/start-here.html

The Parts of an Ebike System
https://ebikes.ca/getting-started/ebikes-parts-explained.html

Kits Vs Turnkey
https://ebikes.ca/getting-started/kits-vs-turnkey.html
 
Added a lighting section <DOH>. I forgot how often the subject comes up. If anyone knows the current limit of the lighting output on KT controller is, please chime in.
 
My thoughts: Like the sticky threads but would like the side talked removed.
Could have the main sticky thread and facts and links with a companion thread like this one that discusses the thread, suggested updates and links good and bad that link to each other.

There is a lot of information here that is repeated over and over better to search it down and add the links to the sticky.
My hat is off to amberwolf who seems to know or finds these for everyone.

This is great.
 
E-HP said:
Added a lighting section <DOH>. I forgot how often the subject comes up. If anyone knows the current limit of the lighting output on KT controller is, please chime in.

There is a thread with a post from yesterday that says the manufacturer quoted them 70mA. (seventy milliamps). I'll edit in a link if I can find it again.
 
Made a couple of updates since the last post; still a work in progress, but if there are any newbie questions and solutions that you tend to see over and over, suggestions and input appreciated.
 
As a newbie I had an assumption a larger motor and/or contoller would achieve better performance with a 36v battery, but a larger motor must have more voltage to improve and a larger controller has a different LVC(low voltage cut out) which limits the voltage aquired from a smaller battery.
 
"larger" motor (or controller) meaning ? "smaller" battery meaning ?

Normally larger motor would need more phase current to perform better. This is done by the controller, regardless of the battery voltage.

A larger controller normally just means it can supply more power, regardless of battery voltage--it does not require having a higher LVC, just that it can supply more phase current to the motor.

Often higher power systems use higher voltage instead of higher current to acheive that, but they don't have to. (hardware could be chosen or designed around a lower battery voltage and higher battery current to get the same watts).

If you want to see how this works, you can use the ebikes.ca motor simulator.


Also, the LVC doesn't limit the voltage "acquired" from a smaller (lower voltage) battery. It only limits the available capacity from it, as well as the current. The voltage the system sees from the battery is identical regardless of the LVC. All the LVC does is limit or shut off motor power (controller LVC) or shut off battery output (BMS LVC) once the voltage drops (or sags under load) to that limit.
 
Added hyperlinks for controller display manuals. There are several versions of manuals, so if there are better versions that you know of, I can update.
 
I found this awesome link to a chart that lists the wire gauge (AWG) and the (conservative) current rating. I've used this chart to see (approximately) what my existing phase wires can handle and have adjusted my controller as needed. This chart may help others avoid melting wire.

 
Added hyperlinks for controller display manuals. There are several versions of manuals, so if there are better versions that you know of, I can update.
Hello there, I just can't find the link to display manuals, sorry if i'm being dumb, could you tell me where it is?
 
Hello there, I just can't find the link to display manuals, sorry if i'm being dumb, could you tell me where it is?
The displays listed in the display section are hyperlinked, so you just need to click on the display name and the manual should pop up.
 
FWIW, since external links rot as companies change servers, software, etc., or go out of business, I highly recommend attaching the files directly to this thread. (yes, it is a lot of work, especially since I think 20 attachments max per post....but worth it to preserve the info if that's the point of this thread).
 
FWIW, since external links rot as companies change servers, software, etc., or go out of business, I highly recommend attaching the files directly to this thread. (yes, it is a lot of work, especially since I think 20 attachments max per post....but worth it to preserve the info if that's the point of this thread).
Thanks for the suggestion; makes sense. I only added the hyperlinks because the manuals are readily available, so copying and pasting was easy. That section was originally only meant to list which display models mate with which controller manufacturers.

The thread is just a WIP, so while the purpose might eventually lead to a usable FAQ, for now it's basically a place that I can compile information that either is discussed frequently, provided to me (I just added slaphappygamer's wire gauge link today), or is new (to me), for later reference when those subjects come up. It reduces typing for me, so since I've been using my tablet instead of my laptop lately, it's easier to copy and paste or forward a hyperlink, than typing on a virtual keyboard. ;)

BTW, thanks for the info about 20 attachments per post. I tend to just update the main post, but haven't been doing much in the way of attachments, yet.
 
If you are interested in continuing to improve this post then i'd be happy to pin it.

Let me know when you think it's ready :)
 
I think I've read through all of the stickies in the ebike forums, which provide great guidance. Yet, I see a lot a new folks getting into ebikes and posting questions that are not in the stickies, or are embedded somewhere among the existing stickies. Another observation is there are "graduating" ebikers that started with a simple kit and are moving on to another build from components, or are replacing components of their kits.

I'm wondering if there's a value to a DIY Newb FAQ, for both cases. I was thinking of a format like below. This is only showing the proposed format and some examples that may fit into it. Anyway, I thought maybe a Newb specific sticky might be helpful, and easy to find if titled that way. Is there an appetite here for something like this? I know all of this can be found with a search, but my other observation is that new folks don't use the tool as much, since you kind of need to know what to search for, or how to.

DIY Newb - General

The Parts of an Ebike System

Learn links Learn

Motor Concepts https://www.maxongroup.com/medias/sys_master/8798985748510.pdf

General: You cannot build an ebike that can go 50 MPH with a 60 mile range for "$1000" If you have a donor bike, you expect to build one with some combination of 20mph to 27mph top speed and 20 to 30 miles of range, for that investment, and speed vs. range is a trade off if your budget is fixed.

Batteries: If the deal is too good to be true, it is. A general rule, as of (Month/202#), for a pack made with name brand cell (Samsung/Sanyo/Panasonic/LG/Sony) $5 x the total number of cells in the pack is the minimum you should expect to pay. If the pack is made with generic Chinese "highest quality A grade cells", or similar description, you might expect to pay $3 x the total number.

Terminology: Most lithium ion packs use series of cells that make up the pack voltage; typically 36V, 48V, 52V, and 72V. Respectively, the number of corresponding series cells for those voltages are 10, 13, 14, and 20. The total pack capacity (amount of energy stored) is based on how many series groups are placed in parallel, and the capacity of each cell. Packs may be described by voltage and capacity (52V 15Ah) or by their component make up (for example 14S5P), which describes the number of series cells (14S) and the number of parallel group (5P). In the example below, lithium ion cells are used.​

"S", combined with the voltage specs for the cells used, will determine the voltage of the pack. So, 14S means 14 series cells, and in this example, each with a nominal voltage of 3.7V; 14 x 3.7 = 51.8, or a 52 volt pack.​
"P" is used to determine the current stored, and discharge capability of the pack. This again depends specs of the cells used (for example 3000mAh, with a discharge capability of 10A). So for a 5P pack, 3000mAh times the number of parallel groups (5 in this example); yields 5 x 3000 = 15000mAh or 15Ah stored. 5 x 10 = 50A discharge capability.​
So the example pack, using lithium ion cells, each with 3500mAh stored and 10A discharge capability, in a 14S5P configuration provides 15Ah with a 50A max output.​

Notes on battery safety:
  • Don't leave your bike charging while unattended. If you're leaving the house while charging, just set it on fire yourself when you leave, so you won't be surprised when you get home.
  • Don't ignore/dismiss/condone odd battery behavior. Don't make assumptions about the cause. It almost always will lead to issues if not addressed.
  • Don't assume charging will correct issues, other than balancing. Don't charge until the problem is properly diagnosed and corrected.
  • A battery shouldn't be getting hot while discharging, unless you are discharging near or above the rated output. The battery should be taken out of service until diagnosed. It could lead to a fire while riding.

Torque arms: If you choose a direct drive motor, and the kit doesn't include a torque arm, you should purchase one (or two). Don't cheap out on torque arms, they must fit tightly to be of use.
  • Threads:

  • Links:
    • Torque Arms on Hub Motor Bikes
      Grin makes high quality front and rear torque arms" Yes very good ones; here is their info page.

How far, how fast, etc.:

  • The Grin Motor Simulator is a great tool for determining how an ebike will perform based on the criteria entered; read of the instructions and start playing
  • Trip Simulator - Change the Input at the top left of graph to Google Maps and right click your start point and end point then move the route line to your desired route by dragging the line holding the left mouse button down.
eBike Lighting?
  • Very few aftermarket controller can support ebike lighing
List of controllers with lighting functions
  • KT controllers. Some have a lighting function that is controlled via the button pad. The output of the lighting connector is not sufficient to drive lights, but is sufficient for powering a relay to turn on the light. The output is limited to 70mA

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Buy, Build?

Looking for an ebike conversion and not sure where to start?

Kits Vs Turnkey

DIY Newb - Kit builder (all components were purchased as part of a kit, battery may be purchased separately)

Tools:
Required: Hand tools for installation;
Optional/recommended (useful for troubleshooting): Digital Multimeter (DMM)
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DIY Newb - Component builder/upgrader (some or all components were not purchased as part of a kit)

Tools:
Required: Hand tools for installation; Digital Multimeter (DMM); soldering iron and/or crimpers; some installations may require connectors, heat shrink tubing, electrical tape, etc.
Optional: motor tester

Displays: Displays from different brands are not usually compatible. Displays that are the same brand as a controller don't guaranty compatibility, due to firmware variations, so purchasing the controller with the display will provide better assurance of compatibility. Some display manufacturers can support different controller brands, provided they are flashed with compatible firmware.

(work in progress)
Common displays and associated controller manufacturer (actual compatibility may be dictated by firmware):
SW900, S700, S800, S830, S866, S886, S890, S900, GD06, OMT-M3 - DC MOTO CONTROLLERBYLITHIUMBATTERY/JN
KD21C, KD51C, KD59E, KD716, KD718 - Lishui
S866, S869, S886, M5, M6T, LH100 - XLD (XunLiDa Electronics) BrainPower
LCD3, LCD4, LCD5, LCD7, LCD8H, LCD8S, LCD9, LCD10H, LED880 - Kunteng "KT"
C961, 500C, 750C, 800S, 860C, DPC-07, - Bafang

Displays and/or Controllers supported by Open Source Firmware
(custom/enhanced firmware developed by the user community):
Controllers -
KT controllers (certain models 0.25kW up to 5kW)
Lishui controllers (certain models)
Bafang BBS02, BBSHD mid drive internal controllers

Displays -
KT LCD3 used in conjunction with TSDZ2 mid drive
VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102 used in conjunction with TSDZ2 mid drive

PAS:
Pedal assist sensors fall into two general categories, cadence based PAS and torque sensing PAS:
Cadence: Cadence PAS can operate in a couple modes, depending on how is supported by the controller. Simple cadence PAS can provide assist when the pedals are turning forward, regardless of how fast the pedaling is. To control the amount of assist, the controller may have control buttons to select a fixed level of assist, by PAS level. Cadence PAS may also operate in a manner the changes assist based on how fast the pedaling is, again, based on what is supported by the controller.​
Torque: Torque sensing PAS operates based on pedaling effort. The amount of pressure applied to the pedals will determine the amount of assist provided. Pedaling harder increases assist. The controller used for torque sensing PAS may also have PAS levels, similar to cadence PAS, that adjust the overall assist level, but the amount of assist at any given level is still determined by pedal pressure. Some torque sensing PAS units also support cadence sensing to further adjust assistance based on the cadence.​
PAS controllers:
Not all controller support PAS, but ones that do usually support cadence PAS, which is common with budget controllers. PAS support will usually be described in the controller's documentation or on its label. Controllers supporting torque sensing PAS are less common, and usually more expensive. Below is a non-exhaustive list of controllers* that support torque sensing PAS:​
  • Grin Phaserunner, Baserunner controllers
  • Grin cycle analyst computer/display (used with any controller with a throttle input)
  • Some models of KT controllers, however these may not be currently available. B. B. Torque Sensor System (link provided by member stancecoke).
  • Some controllers that normally don't support PAS, or only support cadence, can support torque sensing PAS when the controller or display is flashed with open source firmware. Some KT controllers and Lishui controller fit under this category.
* PAS can also be supported by some peripheral components, such as the Grin Cycle Analyst, that will process the PAS signal before passing it to the controller.​
Wiring: There are no wiring standards or wire color coding standards. If you are building from components, you cannot count on things working, just because you matched the wire colors on the connectors between devices. Use your DMM and realize that touching the wrong combination of wires can destroy electronics, instantaneously.

Common (not standard) controller connector wiring:
Throttle: 3 conductors - GND, 5V, signal
Some throttle units have other functions like controller on/off or voltage displays, so those throttles will have 2 or 3 additional conductors, in addition to the three used for throttle.

PAS (cadence): 3 conductors - GND, 5V, signal. Some systems (e.g. Grin), use a higher voltage input

Motor Phase: 3 large conductors. usually Blue, Yellow, Green

Motor Hall Sensor: 5 thin conductors. usually Blue, Yellow, Green (phase hall sensors), Red, Black (5V and GND powering hall sensors). If a sixth wire is present, usually White, it may be used for a speed sensor or temperature sensor (see motor specs).

Battery Power: 2 large conductors. usually Red (battery positive), Black (battery negative)

Brake (cutoff) switches (low brake):
  • 2 conductors for most generic Chinese controllers: N.O. switch (normally open when lever is not engaged) on the brake side connector; GND and signal (~5V via pull up resistor) on the controller side connector
  • 3 conductors: GND, signal (~5V), 5V. The 5V may or may not be used, but could provide power to a hall sensor, for variable braking/regen for instance.
Brake switches (high brake): to be added

Display wiring, single wire: to be added
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Self-learning: Usually two single wire connectors (male and female JST, often white), when connected runs an autotuning routine to determine the correct hall and phase wire combination. Once set, the wires are disconnected for normal operation. Note that in some cases, the self-learning routine may also set the battery voltage level for controllers that support more than one input voltage.

Testing and Troubleshooting References:
Testing guides by Tommycat -​
Anti-theft:
Sabvoton anti-theft wiring

Wire Gauge Current Limits:
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Wheel Building:

Spoke Calculator - Online Spoke Calculator for Hubmotors and Ebikes

Chinglish to English translations (work in progress)
Electric Key Lock/Key Switch/Electric Door Lock/Ignition/Power Lock : Controller on/off; usually applying battery level voltage to the signal wire turns on the controller (frequently a thin orange conductor).
3 Position Switch/3 Speed Switch/3 Grade Switch/ : Controls 3 power or speed levels of the controller; the middle position is default
Learning/Self-study/Self-learning/Automatic Detection/Auto Learn : Jumper to enable automatic detection of motor hall/phase combination​
Throttle/Speed Governor/Accelerator/Turn Handle/ : Throttle Input​

Change Log:
05-03-21 - added general statement to General section and wiring to Component section. changed formatting, added torque arm links
05-27-21 - added 99t4 and markz contributions
07-01-22 - added links to Grin torque arm page
01/17-23 - added ebike lighting section
01-23-23 - added precautions with regards to batteries
03-19-23 - added link to motor concepts (provided by stancecoke on separate thread); started display model to manufacturer list
09-16-23 - added hyperlinks to display manuals
01-09-24 - added section on open source firmware
01-27-24 - added Chinglish to English translations section
02-09-24 - added self-learning notes in wiring section
02-18-24 - added wire gauge current limit link from slaphappygamer, TommyCat testing guides

Last observation: Most of the stickies appear to be threads that are made into stickies, so the information is scattered within the threads. It would be nice if when information is added by folks, that at the end the mods could consolidate into the main sections for easy access.

EDIT: Thinking about how a lot of members use translators when accessing the site, paragraphs probably don't work as well. I'm not sure, I don't use them much. Bullets are probably easier to understand.
This post has only two likes when it deserves thousands. Thanks a lot for your time and your ethic work <3
 
This post has only two likes when it deserves thousands. Thanks a lot for your time and your ethic work <3
Any "likes" on this thread belong to the ES experts who have provided this information over the years in various posts. I mainly compile it for my own purposes, since it helps field questions and has some good links that I'd otherwise spend time looking up. I put in placeholders for stuff I want to add at some point, but don't have the time to type up. Any feedback on areas that a newbie might want beefed up is appreciated though.
 
I’ve converted the help web page, that you can view in the Cycle Analyst Setup Utility, to pdf. I actually printed this out because I found it annoying to go back and forth between the CASU GUI and the help window. Maybe this would help others, but maybe it’s just me being annoyed easily by little things. :)
 

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