48V (10AH x 4) 12 x 4110 MOSFET Lyen Controller Question

[evolution9]

Good Morning,

I've got a big Chinese scooter with a massive 1000-3000W hub motor, phase wires are big. I currently have a 60V 20 AH SLA battery and a stock controller.

I recently purchased a 12 x 4110 MOSFET Extreme Modder Controller LYEN Edition (initially programmed for 72V and moderate Amps) and......

4 x 48V 10AH LiFePO4 batteries ( http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?_u=i1q92q42feca&id=10937763942 )

The batteries were relatively cheap $90 USD ea and have the following ratings:

Rated Discharge Current: 20A
Maximum discharge current: 35A
Rated charging current: 5A
Maximum charge current: 10A

They each come with a BMS which is why I believe the discharge rate isn't on par with a typical cell. (I may be wrong on this)

My initial goal was 96V and 20 AH (2 batteries in series and 2 batteries in parallel) Will this work? Can I expect to draw more than 35Amps? Will the BMS prevent them from being wired in series?

Will this configuration work? Could I program the controller for 96V and less amps? I could always buy another higher voltage specific controller. I think I may have jumped the gun on both the batteries and controller purchase, but I'm impulsive like that.

Would I need to modify the controller (bigger traces, shunt, wires, etc?) If so, I think I could follow a guide and get it done.

Thanks for the advice.

Bryan

Bryan

 

[teslanv]

The battery specs vs price seem a bit suspect. A similar battery from Ping would cost more than 4 times as much.

 

[wesnewell]

I can't read, write, or speak Chinese, but I think those are 16s lifepo4 battery packs. If you wire them 2x2, that's 117V fully charged. 4110 fets are only rated for 100V and the caps in the controller are likely only rated for 100V too. That's the main problem. If you want to do 96V nominal, you'll need a controller that that can take 120V. In theory, if you keep the output wires the same size and length, you would have a 70A max burst output capability from the paralleled packs, and a 40A continuous output. You can easily raise the amp draw of most controllers with a shunt mod or lower it by cutting one or more of the shunts. This controller should work fine.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Electric-scooter-96V-1500W-motor-controller-freeshipping/1478009777.html

 

[evolution9]

Hmm... thats some food for thought. I did a cost analysis on a bunch of of available LiFEPO4 batteries, and that one on sale was the biggest bang for the buck.

Maybe what I'll do is re-wire the batteries for 72V or 84V

48V 10 AH + 24V 10AH (1/2 a 48V 10AH) x 2 in parallel for 72 V 20 AH

with 1 48V 10 AH left over or 84V X 20 AH

or i could call lyen up and order a higher output controller!

Thanks,

Bryan

 

[teslanv]

Or just replace the caps in the controller.
I'm very curious to find out how well those batteries work out for you.
How much was the shipping?

 

[evolution9]

I recently moved from the USA to China. I've seen that certain things are on par with prices in the USA, others are way less expensive and some are way more. I'll let you know how the batteries work out. The reviews were favorible. I've got this massive scooter and commute 20km each way to and from work. A 60v 20AH SLA gets me to work. Then I need to charge for 6-8 hrs then I ride home 20km. So I was hoping to get more performance and range out of a new battery config but....I prob jumped the gun on my purchase (due to price) and didn't even consider the controller I purchased. New goal is to go to and from work on one charge. I'm thinking of combining 24v 40 AH SLA and 48V 40 AH LIFEPO4 with the lyen controller . maybe that'll work? My space for batteries is significant. I can send cad models if anyone wants to see.

 

[evolution9]

Shipping on the batteries was free.

 

[evolution9]

If I hook up the 4x48 in parallel and add 24v SLA what would be the best way to charge the pack?

 

[dogman dan]

Charge the sla separate from the lithium pack. That controller should handle 72v, with maximum charged voltage of 90v. That's what Lyens recommended to me.

 

[alsmith]

Or just replace the caps in the controller.
I'm very curious to find out how well those batteries work out for you.
How much was the shipping?

Why just the capacitors? They are nichicon 105°C, 100V but what about the 4110 FETs as well- they are rated to 100V so matched for voltage.

 

[teslanv]

Or just replace the caps in the controller.
I'm very curious to find out how well those batteries work out for you.
How much was the shipping?

Why just the capacitors? They are nichicon 105°C, 100V but what about the 4110 FETs as well- they are rated to 100V so matched for voltage.

Yeah, probably need to upgrade the FET's too, if over 100V. Something like a 4115.

 

[7circle]

hey Evl'9

Be careful with the BMS rated voltage.

series connection of packs will apply that voltage to the BMS FETs.

Have you thought of testing the system at 48V to chech if the Li bat packs are okay?

Your top speed may only be abit less than saggy 60V Pb/Lead pack.
But new cells will give high current grunt accel from stop.

Do you plan to open a pack and check BMS.
If the 10Ah is made from 2Ah x 5 smaller cells you have lots of rebuild options.
What charger PsU will you use?

7C

 

[evolution9]

Heyo,

Here are some pictures of the battery packs somewhat disassembled. They are quite small, are exactly the same voltage after a charge. I believe they are 16S (though i'm not really sure what the S stands for) i'm guessing string? This pack has 16 individual prismatic cells. They are incredibly light vs the sealed lead acid. One 12V 20AH lead acid cell weighs more than one 48V 10AH LifepO4 cell. The BMS has C- B+ P- and B - but... only C - and B - are configured. B+ and P - are void of wires.

My next question is..... how do I (without complete disassembly of the cell or BMS) turn this into a 24V 20AH pack?

Here are my thoughts....

leave everything as is, ..... add two wires the pack (to positive 24V, ea) wire in parallel for 24V 20AH on positive and C - of BMS)

im not really sure how to do this. I'm also not sure if the BMS is hooked up only for charge and not discharge?

Thanks!!!

B

 

[wesnewell]

You've got a 16s1p battery pack with a 16s bms. What you want is an 8s2p pack. S means series, p means parallel. Electrically, you need to break the series connection between cells 8 and 9 and then wire cell 1 in parallel with cell 9, 2 with 10, etc. If the bms you have will work with 8s then you can reuse it. If not, then you'll need an 8s bms. This is fairly simple if you know what you're doing. Not so if you don't. This refers to rc lipo, but they wire identically. Read it.
http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/lipo.html

 

[999zip999]

I would build 72v20 ah pack as 24s2p one 24s bms one 72v charger. One battery.

 

[evolution9]

awesome! I'll give that article a read. this is the exact BMS controller:

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.0.0.5IP4nR&id=25366660328&_u=p1q92q42ad3c

 

[evolution9]

I would build 72v20 ah pack as 24s2p one 24s bms one 72v charger. One battery.

I like that idea.

I know the difference between series and parallel. How would I use this BMS in particular to configure 8s2p or is it not possible?

I'm okay with charging 48V 20AH and 24V 24AH separately for now.

Bryan

 

[wesnewell]

I still can't read Chinese so I have no idea if that bms will work 8s or not. If you can read it, it should say what it can and can't do. For reference, here's some that will do 8s.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X8s+bms&_nkw=8s+bms&_sacat=0&_from=R40

 

[evolution9]

Those note 60A LiFePO4 (8S 12S 16S 24S) Bleeding BMS(30A-60A) but.... how do you configure that BMS which looks very similar in design but beefier for 8s2p!?

B

 

[Skalabala]

The price! Can you see any serial numbers on the cells themselves?
If one pack has 16 cells then nominal voltage must be 51.2V?
Maybe your motor is terminated in WYE? And then you can make it Delta to gain Rpm what you lost by dropping voltage? If you go with "48V" 40AH

You have 64cells so 60 of them can give you 20s3P and that is 64V(3.2Vx20) and 30AH thats 2kw

PS: Can you get more of these packs?? ES Group buy for 100 of them
Test the true capacity please!

 

[evolution9]

I'll check for serial numbers on the cells when I get home. There are more batteries available from that vendor. So you think 48V x 30 AH (or 40AH as I bought 4 of these) would be a way to go instead of 72V 20AH?

 

[teslanv]

Those note 60A LiFePO4 (8S 12S 16S 24S) Bleeding BMS(30A-60A) but.... how do you configure that BMS which looks very similar in design but beefier for 8s2p!?

B

Just parallel two cells together for each connection to the BMS. Each parallel "double pack" will look and act as one larger cell to the BMS.

 

[evolution9]

Too Much Time!!! I want to use the scooter for my commute tomorrow. Need to figure something out! Tonight,

B

 

[evolution9]

I found this on 8S2P wiring



B

 

[teslanv]

I found this on 8S2P wiring



B

Loos like 8S1P to me. - Although if you imagine each 2P (paralleled "double-pack") is one "cell" then that diagram would apply.