Why not just install a sealant compound in your tyres/innertubes?View attachment 343328
Hi guys. While I leave in village, I drove my bmx and othet bikes almost all my childhood, I can't remember when I puncture the tire. If there was, it was very rare.
Now, when I bought this M bike (7.2022.), converted in E-bike, in 16 months I puncture REAR tire 6 times! Yes, I ride more than ever now, about 50 km at good weather day. I have around 63-65 kg. Battery is think 4KG. ODO 4.480km.
My all 6 rear punctures:
1) 22.7.22. (Kenda gravel) Used tires which come with bike. At the bridge, all I saw is metal wire bellow me.
Then I think I need new tires. Brother told me buy 1.75, you will be faster. I bought Vittoria:
2)14.9.22. (Vittoria)
Found a nail on speed bump (pic a)).
3) 3.4.23.(Vittoria)Found a piece of straight metal on the road (pic b)).
I saw that this tire too thin so I search better solution. I want to go on max width size tire. In local shop recommend Continental tires "Traffic II"! That tires are very hard move with hands. They look very hard and thick. I said that is it ! But they look too expensive :/
So they recommend me Race King tires. Saw that "RK Protection" tire have extra protection, and from sight, but I don't need from sight!
Then found similar and cheaper normal tires - "Race King SKIN" (26x2.0), for which told me in shop that are stronger for punctures too(than others), and no one tire prevent 100%! Then I bought them!
But after I order them I saw in hands that are too soft (not hard like Traffic II) tires. I mean, maybe will be good.
4) 22.5.23. (Race King) Four puncture are little strange. I go faster and not straight, but from the side on entry in the yard (see pictures c) & d)) It seems "rim cut".
5)14.9.23.(Race King)My last puncture, a little piece of glass. Very rainy day, drive on water (pic e)).
6)22.11.23.(Race King) At river bridge. Piace of stone.
How I am drive then? You can check here in details:
E-bike without rear disc mount
Hi. I build my ebike started from forum here: https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/threads/help-me-build-e-bike-mtb.116704/page-4 It is more than 1 year and working fine, for now. I noticed that my rear rim start wear and create a little channel. So, before I destroy it, I want switch to...endless-sphere.com
After every puncture I am learning and adapting my drive (no more fast over speed bumps etc.).
Feeling strange:
In really hot weather, on these tires, I have been felling that they will "melt" itself, and when go down from bridge I am braking because feeling that something is not alright. I pump tire on 4.0 bars now, but still when cross over a little tiny stone, have feeling like my rim touch that stone, like my tire not pump too much, understand? Tire so thin like I drive on pastry. And feeling like tire wobbling and will go out (not rim). Feeling like rim close to ground.
Maybe is just my feeling and fear by remembering of lasts punctures, don't knowMaybe is just when is really hot? I had drive other normal MTB and never that feeling..
But what you recommend me? Is there will be help of Puncture Protection Strip installation (like ZEFAL Z-Liner), can be maybe help against tiny glass, thorn, etc.?
What tire you heard that is thicker and good at preventing puncture?
6 punctures in 16 months, help!
- Thread starter Smurf2
- Start date
Chalo
100 TW
My reason? Because that garbage treats your air valves, and your pump, as punctures to be sealed.
Ask any auto mechanic why not to fill your tires with sealant.
It's not like replacement tubeless rim valves are expensive. Sometimes you can just replace the valve core, and it is fine. Valve cores cost pennies!
Chalo
100 TW
Then why don't motorists use sealants?
Because they have 3-5x the total depth, higher tread hardness, a layer of steel, etc.. vs a bicycle tire
and yet there still exists slime for cars, and other "fix a flat" type things for particularly hellish areas..
SLM Thru-Core 14oz - Walmart.com
and yet there still exists slime for cars, and other "fix a flat" type things for particularly hellish areas..
SLM Thru-Core 14oz - Walmart.com
The vast majority of vehicle owners/drivers are completely ignorant there's liquid tire sealant even available. And when they need fresh rubber, no one, justifiably, mentions or recommends it (yes, there's likely exceptions). But the simple fact is, tire shops literally HATE
tire repairs/and or replacements that pee green, sticky snot all over their hands and equipment. Ever try patching a flat tire filled with that shit? I have, and it sucks! Bikes fall under completely different set of circumstances... because it's more often than not, the owner/or dad... is the sucker that gets saddled with the gooey chore. It's not only down-right messy, but more often tan not, the perfectly reusable tube gets chucked.I prefer tires with..
at least 66a tread compound
at least 90 TPI casing
and thin, supple sidewalls
Carry an extra tube or two, a pump, and patch the flats at home.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2022
- Messages
- 12
Hi!
First of all if you try the cheap methods you will have hard times.
I am a courier I ride 30-35k Kms a year in Budapest for 3 years ago. I tried tubeless, slime, antipuncture belts. These are what NOT works.
Theres no shortcuts from a quality tyre.
The two top technologies are:
Continental Vectran series: this is the superlight method. I use the Grand Prix 5000, in 28-584. Yes it seems a madness to use a thin tyre to a 27 kg ebike. I never get puctures from glasses, or any kind of natural thorns. I can get snakebite punctures because the thin size, but it happens only every 10-15k kms from really nefarious potholes. I survive it 2 times a year. I like superlight wheels and this is the price for that. However I can ride 100-140 Kms a day mostly in sport mode with my TSDZ2B/48V 20Ah battery combo. With lot of hills.
The other way is the bulletproof Schwalbe Marathon series. Yes, they are very heavy (700-1200grms depends on sizes) but lot of ebiker couriers are use it and have never had punctures. I used it for 1 year without any punctures. It is hard to measure exactly but I feel I can realize the heavy weight at the battery consumption.
First of all if you try the cheap methods you will have hard times.
I am a courier I ride 30-35k Kms a year in Budapest for 3 years ago. I tried tubeless, slime, antipuncture belts. These are what NOT works.
Theres no shortcuts from a quality tyre.
The two top technologies are:
Continental Vectran series: this is the superlight method. I use the Grand Prix 5000, in 28-584. Yes it seems a madness to use a thin tyre to a 27 kg ebike. I never get puctures from glasses, or any kind of natural thorns. I can get snakebite punctures because the thin size, but it happens only every 10-15k kms from really nefarious potholes. I survive it 2 times a year. I like superlight wheels and this is the price for that. However I can ride 100-140 Kms a day mostly in sport mode with my TSDZ2B/48V 20Ah battery combo. With lot of hills.
The other way is the bulletproof Schwalbe Marathon series. Yes, they are very heavy (700-1200grms depends on sizes) but lot of ebiker couriers are use it and have never had punctures. I used it for 1 year without any punctures. It is hard to measure exactly but I feel I can realize the heavy weight at the battery consumption.
wturber
1 MW
My most successful solution was to cut the bead off of an older tire and put that inside of the regular tire. I think someone here suggested doing this. I think I also had a rim strip in there as well. I only did that on the back because the back gets flats more often and is a bigger pain to dismount since it has the hub motor, torque arms, etc. I think that method got me over 5000 miles with no flats. It finally failed me when I picked up a screw in the sidewall.
I no longer run the double tires because I retired and none of my trips are that time critical. But if I went back to high mileage on the ebike, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I figure the friction losses and extra weight are insignificant given its an ebike. If someone does this, make sure that the outside tire has a robust sidewall and not something super-thin and flexible.
I've had similar luck on my regular road bike by running my tires tubeless with a homebrew tire sealant. I did that on a lark figuring I wouldn't stick with it, but so far it has proven to be very little fuss and all punctures have self-sealed. No roadside flats yet after over 4000 miles. Of course, these things are a bit random. So "luck" could be the key factor in both cases.
Chalo
100 TW
I know that method as the Albuquerque System. I have employed it a few times, mostly for desperate customers. I try to find a slick treaded inner tire about 1/4"-1/2" smaller in nominal size than the outer tire.
Soy yogurt and coffee grounds? Shaving cream and beard clippings? Vape juice and Cheetos dust? Fabric softener and dryer lint? So many things to try.
wturber
1 MW
Nothing so experimental. Mine is just a some variations on the standard DIY formula that uses liquid latex, ammonia, anti-freeze and corn starch.
I happened to have had a flat on a ride and noticed how the bead on my tubed tire was stuck surprisingly firmly into the bead of the rim. That got me thinking about tubeless. Then somehow I stumbled across a DIY formula on YouTube and I realized I probably had all the stuff on hand to give this a shot. It just so happens that I have a pretty large bottle of Tear Mender. It's made for gluing fabric, but I use it as a water based table tennis rubber glue. I was pretty sure it was mostly liquid latex. So I cut the valve out of an old presta tube, got some gorilla tape to seal the rim. And mixed up a batch using Tear Mender in the place of "liquid latex."
For the "coagulant" bits, my formula includes Dollar Tree glitter and milled fiberglass (usually used as an epoxy filler) in addition to the standard formula corn starch.
My 15 year old YouTube video on using Tear Mender for table tennis is at the bottom of this page. I should add one for using Tear Mender for tubeless tires. :^)
Inspiration Gallery | Tear Mender
www.tearmender.com
DaLanMan
10 kW
Man you had me at tubeless.
Ok, I applaud the enginuity, I have slimed and hot snotted tires because unfortunatly since my son was born I have lived entirely in communities that are like 99% computer nerds and none of them knows how to hold a wrench (at least according the neighborhood kids who are all amazed that my garage door being open, and music playing means I am tinkering on something.. and suddenly I am the one stop repair shop...
My wife asked me why.. Man I am an orphan, and my adoptive family sucked. I would have killed to have a dad that fixed shit and helped people out.
In any case, I find the solutions fascinating, and I have to wonder why there is not a foam core solution for bikes? I mean the tires are much more prone to puncture issues, and in the auto world they use a few varying solutions from an inset device in the rim that does not allow the tire to actually collapse much when pressure is lost, to foam filled outer segments that blow some kind of tire snot into a puncture.
Well, now I know what I am looking up while laying in bed...
Ok, I applaud the enginuity, I have slimed and hot snotted tires because unfortunatly since my son was born I have lived entirely in communities that are like 99% computer nerds and none of them knows how to hold a wrench (at least according the neighborhood kids who are all amazed that my garage door being open, and music playing means I am tinkering on something.. and suddenly I am the one stop repair shop...
My wife asked me why.. Man I am an orphan, and my adoptive family sucked. I would have killed to have a dad that fixed shit and helped people out.
In any case, I find the solutions fascinating, and I have to wonder why there is not a foam core solution for bikes? I mean the tires are much more prone to puncture issues, and in the auto world they use a few varying solutions from an inset device in the rim that does not allow the tire to actually collapse much when pressure is lost, to foam filled outer segments that blow some kind of tire snot into a puncture.
Well, now I know what I am looking up while laying in bed...
Schwalbe Marathon Plus would be a good bet.
I also read somewhere they used an old punctured inner tube as protection to the outside. I did also use silver tape or gorilla to make the side versus the road get some distance to the inner tube but doing this feels more DIY and no real proof of it working than hoping and wanting it to work. Somehow the placebo effect and whatever small positive effect it has must be worth it.
What I did after three punctures where to go with a fatter inner tube. Normal inner tubes are 100g. and the fatter one I got was weighing in at 300g or 3x the average joe brand normal size.
After one year of use somehow it broke in the valve area in a "blow out event".
I doubt any home made “thickener” system could compete with Schwalbe’s system on convenience, rolling resistance, or weight.
On puncture resistance, you could trump Schwalbe if rubber depth is the only criteria.
On monetary cost, you also could, but not easily, since Marathons are long-wearing.
It amounts to trading puncture resistance for rolling resistance. Schwalbe’s are good in both these respects..
Thicker tubes add bulk that doesn’t contribute to puncture resistance. They’re a poor solution.
On puncture resistance, you could trump Schwalbe if rubber depth is the only criteria.
On monetary cost, you also could, but not easily, since Marathons are long-wearing.
It amounts to trading puncture resistance for rolling resistance. Schwalbe’s are good in both these respects..
Thicker tubes add bulk that doesn’t contribute to puncture resistance. They’re a poor solution.
wturber
1 MW
Shortly after retirement, I started doing volunteer work for an organization, "Bobs' Free Bikes" for similar reasons. We fix up donated bikes and give them to kids who need bikes. I'm not an orphan, but I figure every kid needs a bike and they too often don't have a parent or parents who can provide one.
There are foam bicycle "inner tubes" that are flat proof. But they pretty much suck from the standpoint of the bicycle riding experience. We get them in every now and then and they are a total pain to remove - sometimes requiring the careful use of a hacksaw and wire cutters since they get less and less flexible with age. I guess they have their place, but are not a good general solution.
Not entirely true. If the puncturing object is not quite long enough to make it all the way thru the thicker innertube wall then you avoid the flat event.
Sure, it’s just that since those events only occur across a 90 degree arc, only a quarter of their bulk contributes. The balance is ballast, dead weight, whatever you want to call it. And surely increases rolling resistance (although that effect might be minor, I have no data to support the contention).
My experience is frequent punctures with genuine race tires and cheap tires, regardless of brand. All pricey tires have proved resistant enough for my riding.
The circumstances are more important than the frequency though.
So, for commuting I’ve settled on Schwalbe’s plus tires in 23-25mm profiles. The reasoning is that the bike’s only 7kg anyway, it’s (mostly) functional weight, and compliance and efficiency and grip are lesser criteria for short rides.
For off the beaten path I’ve settled on 32mm standard Marathons. The reasoning being that they’re a good balance of everything, and are particularly good at resisting cuts. The lack of compliance is compensated for by the sidewall protection containing the tube well enough that most often you can get back to base without needing to rely on a tire boot. They never puncture on me, but that’s merely a bonus.
For >32mm profiles I exclusively use tubeless tires, the reason being that the only reason to use fat tires is grip and comfort, which requires compliance and low pressure. For road riding tubeless enables equivalent comfort with half as much rubber (at half the pressure). For MTBing, the benefits are better framed in terms of traction, but the logic is identical.
My experience is frequent punctures with genuine race tires and cheap tires, regardless of brand. All pricey tires have proved resistant enough for my riding.
The circumstances are more important than the frequency though.
So, for commuting I’ve settled on Schwalbe’s plus tires in 23-25mm profiles. The reasoning is that the bike’s only 7kg anyway, it’s (mostly) functional weight, and compliance and efficiency and grip are lesser criteria for short rides.
For off the beaten path I’ve settled on 32mm standard Marathons. The reasoning being that they’re a good balance of everything, and are particularly good at resisting cuts. The lack of compliance is compensated for by the sidewall protection containing the tube well enough that most often you can get back to base without needing to rely on a tire boot. They never puncture on me, but that’s merely a bonus.
For >32mm profiles I exclusively use tubeless tires, the reason being that the only reason to use fat tires is grip and comfort, which requires compliance and low pressure. For road riding tubeless enables equivalent comfort with half as much rubber (at half the pressure). For MTBing, the benefits are better framed in terms of traction, but the logic is identical.
Rolling resistance with the Albuquerque System is about as bad as a motorcycle tire.
Protection is about as good as motorcycle tire.
Handling? in my opinion, it's worse than a motorcycle tire. This goes back to the fact that the collective amount of rubber isn't as hard as the motorcycle tire.
Ease of mounting? Albuquerque System is the hands down winner. But making sure the two tires are properly aligned can be a pain. I don't see why we can't connect the two tires using RTV or some other kind of flexible glue.
Protection is about as good as motorcycle tire.
Handling? in my opinion, it's worse than a motorcycle tire. This goes back to the fact that the collective amount of rubber isn't as hard as the motorcycle tire.
Ease of mounting? Albuquerque System is the hands down winner. But making sure the two tires are properly aligned can be a pain. I don't see why we can't connect the two tires using RTV or some other kind of flexible glue.
You can. BUT: if any of the puncture protection depends on stuff getting deflected between the now-glued layers, it won't happen.
For instance, a long time back on DayGlo Avenger, since the slimestrips kept "snaking" up the sidewalls and leaving areas unprotected, I glued them in place on the inside of the tire. Now they couldn't do what they were meant to, which is to flex a bit out of the way of an entering puncture-object, and let that slide across the surface of the strips to push it sideways. Instead, they just got in the way of the object, and while that stops some organic materials that aren't hard enough or sharp enough to puncture the plastic, it didn't do a thing for glass or nails or some thorns--they just went right thru into the tube.
Back when I still used the tire-in-tire method, at least twice, once on Crazybike2's front wheel, and once on one of Delta Tripper's rears, a nail was deflected thru the sidewall by the second tire...but if it had been glued in place it would have just been extra rubber thickness, and the nail would have gone thru everything into the tube (and then probably been slammed into the rim or thru it, as happened on DayGlo Avenger with the glued slimestrips once.
If you aren't trying to protect against this, or use the protection this way, then gluing them would make the tire-in-tire a single thicker rubber surface.
One thing I haven't ever tried but considered and discarded as unlikley to work was to glue the treads off of tires onto the wearing-out-treads of my old tires, essentially inverting the tire-in-tire to tire-on-tire. I figured any glue I used would not be sufficient to keep the tread on there, so I've never tested it at all.
Interesting observations, my dude.
I have a 100:1 goathead to road nail puncture ratio out here so protecting against nails is not a big deal.
You can get RTV in all sorts of hardnesses. I figure it may work as well as a flexible glue could. I'm unsure if tires deform enough to break the rubber to rubber bond. The problem with using it is probably getting it evenly applied so you don't end up with an unbalanced tire.
I'm visualizing having two tires newly bonded by rtv flattened out by hand as much as possible possible, then taking another slightly smaller wheel and tire that isn't inflated, inserting it into the tire + tire, then inflating the inner wheel's tire, so that the tire + tire is compressed evenly while the RTV is curing. Before it cures, you also have an opportunity to check and correct balance issues by spinning the wheel around.
I have a 100:1 goathead to road nail puncture ratio out here so protecting against nails is not a big deal.
You can get RTV in all sorts of hardnesses. I figure it may work as well as a flexible glue could. I'm unsure if tires deform enough to break the rubber to rubber bond. The problem with using it is probably getting it evenly applied so you don't end up with an unbalanced tire.
I'm visualizing having two tires newly bonded by rtv flattened out by hand as much as possible possible, then taking another slightly smaller wheel and tire that isn't inflated, inserting it into the tire + tire, then inflating the inner wheel's tire, so that the tire + tire is compressed evenly while the RTV is curing. Before it cures, you also have an opportunity to check and correct balance issues by spinning the wheel around.
wturber
1 MW
I ran mine only for the back tire and given the weight of my bike, I can't say any change in handling was a big deal. I think of my ebike as something like the station wagon of ebikes. Not elegant. No great handling. And I don't care about the rolling resistance. But generally functional for a wide variety of things.
I never had much trouble with the tire alignment. But if I did, I'd probably use rubber cement as a non permanent bond to get me through the mounting.
wturber
1 MW
Seems dangerous to me. If that tread slips off, bad things are likely to happen. I suppose you could stitch or rivet the sidewalls to hold it in place. But still, I'd be leery of having that outer belt slip.
This really caught my attention. How is it so light?
Chalo
100 TW
Today's installment in "Why Do I Even Bother?" features another unstoppable puncturing object:
I caught it on the way home from work and fixed it on the sidewalk, in the dark, without unloading my bike's cargo box.
I caught it on the way home from work and fixed it on the sidewalk, in the dark, without unloading my bike's cargo box.
Very off topic … but not by design, or with difficulty, and I was frugal.
It’s a single speed with bull horns. I’ve always ridden them, but came upon a pair of semi-raw carbon framesets with a weave pattern that I liked, then decided to continue that weave across the board with a bunch of cheap aliexpress carbon parts. 200g stems, posts, saddles, pedals, and bars are only US$25 each.
Time trial levers are light. Ditto Dura-ace cranks. And 105 callipers aren’t overly heavy.
The only agonising was over how to justify $400 for a pair of carbon hoops. I couldn’t, so built an aluminium wheelset with bits I already had. The carbon rims aren’t lighter anyway, they just would’ve looked better.
I prefer to re-use and repurpose - in principle more than for economic reasons - and would never normally buy parts that I already have in the shed, but in this case the entire cost was offset by building two identical bikes and selling one.
It’s nice to have a light, pretty bike, but because the carbon components aren’t recyclable it’s hard to justify unless you’re confident that your environmental footprint is otherwise minimal.
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