6 punctures in 16 months, help!

[Smurf2]

Inanek said:
Looking at reviews, they actually score very poorly on puncture resistance.

Well, then that means they cheat me in bike shop, where told me that have good puncture protection vs other tires on market. Also they warned me that no any tire protect 100%.

On Continental page is noted high puncture protection too.

Sorry Inanek, but I said, don't like marathon plus tires because it is not for my roads, and I love gravel type tire and wider tire. Maybe marathon, but without 'plus'.

 

[Mongo]

Tannus does offer an airless solid tire in 26 x 1.75. I've not tried them, and I suspect they have drawbacks, but in high debris circumstances they may be good fits.

 

[Chalo]

Well, then that means they cheat me in bike shop, where told me that have good puncture protection vs other tires on market. Also they warned me that no any tire protect 100%.

On Continental page is noted high puncture protection too.

True racing tires never feature any significant puncture protection. Armored sport tires like Continental Gatorskin etc. are always a compromise between protection, rolling resistance, ride quality, weight-- so they don't offer all that much protection.

Different brands will use different terms like "plus", "breaker", or any of various trademarks (Protek, Hard Case, Armadillo, K-Shield and so forth) to indicate the presence of a substantial armor layer. You can almost tell how much protection you're getting just by weight, as long as you're looking at reputable brands in middle and upper price ranges, and as long as you're comparing similar sizes.

 

[lnanek]

Tannus does offer an airless solid tire in 26 x 1.75. I've not tried them, and I suspect they have drawbacks, but in high debris circumstances they may be good fits.

Our bicycle fleet at work are all airless solid tires. I walk through a parking lot with hundreds every weekday morning and never even saw one damaged, let alone flat, so that's a plus. They are slow, but fine for getting between buildings to the next meeting. Seem like near zero maintenance and zero chance of flats too.

 

[neptronix]

I study tannus armor a bit. It looks great. Only need smaller inner tube and maybe cutting it, right?

But, is it worth it?
Will it squeeze over time and become useless? (15mm of armor turns to 1??).

The cheapest I found is €62 per tire (with shipping) from AliExpress. That is a lot. If I ever buy it, it will be just one for rear wheel, for now.

I'm told by local mountain bikers ( Utah is also the home country of Tannus ), that they are good against flats but have crappy handling. They use tubeless and deal with the occasional puncture anyway instead.

For me, crappy handling is a deal breaker because my bikes tend to do over 40mph.

We have goatheads galore out here.

 

[neptronix]

True racing tires never feature any significant puncture protection. Armored sport tires like Continental Gatorskin etc. are always a compromise between protection, rolling resistance, ride quality, weight-- so they don't offer all that much protection.

Different brands will use different terms like "plus", "breaker", or any of various trademarks (Protek, Hard Case, Armadillo, K-Shield and so forth) to indicate the presence of a substantial armor layer. You can almost tell how much protection you're getting just by weight, as long as you're looking at reputable brands in middle and upper price ranges, and as long as you're comparing similar sizes.

Chalo wins the thread today. This is very correct.

In my experience, the heavier the tire, the thicker the rubber/mass, the more protection. And i've tried probably 7 different 'puncture proof' tires to try to deal with my environment.

The thickest puncture proof tire i've ever measured had 7mm of rubber. A moped tire, at thinnest, has 8mm of rubber, but a typical small motorcycle tire will have 11mm and up of rubber.

I can pull this out of a tire after a single ride, especially during the fall when the goatheads go wild.



More information: 2019 16" moped/scooter tire pop-off: which is the most puncture proof?

 

[scianiac]

I study tannus armor a bit. It looks great. Only need smaller inner tube and maybe cutting it, right?

But, is it worth it?
Will it squeeze over time and become useless? (15mm of armor turns to 1??).

The cheapest I found is €62 per tire (with shipping) from AliExpress. That is a lot. If I ever buy it, it will be just one for rear wheel, for now.

I've been using them for awhile now and they have some pros and cons depending on how you are using them. They do seem to compress more than I would like although I modified mine to not compress so much but it's a pain. I'm also running quite low tire pressures so if you want to run super hard road pressures maybe not ideal as unmodified they would compress more. I think per weight they are better than many options, per cost maybe less so. For pinch flat performance they are amazing but haven't tested punctures yet but I think the math is pretty simple based on the length of the pointy object.

I'm told by local mountain bikers ( Utah is also the home country of Tannus ), that they are good against flats but have crappy handling. They use tubeless and deal with the occasional puncture anyway instead.

For me, crappy handling is a deal breaker because my bikes tend to do over 40mph.

We have goatheads galore out here.

I'm curious what they mean by crappy handling, they are not light so most mountain bikers would describe that as poor handling. They do also respond different to pressure changes than a tube or tubeless but with some tweaking I've got them setup pretty good. They also seem to dampen far better than a tube or tubeless, just dropping two wheels the armor one hardly bounces in comparison. I don't know that I would put them on a high speed street bike though, at those speeds they are probably producing a noticeably amount of drag and possibly even overheating like a mousse.

Overall though I think they have advantages in some situations but also tradeoffs, just depends on what you're after. Although I do think they could make some improvements to them.

 

[Smurf2]

scianiac said:
They do seem to compress more than I would like ....
.... so if you want to run super hard road pressures maybe not ideal as unmodified they would compress more.

Oh, that is bad

scianiac said:
those speeds they are probably producing a noticeably amount of drag and possibly even overheating like a mousse.

Well, then better not install to my ebike. Especially if I buy only one, that will be uneven feeling of drive.

Thanks guys for sharing that.


For Schwable tires, something is not right. I saw many of them with wrong and different pictures and name. You see that in this right picture Marathon Plus MTB tire have blue protection like first tire on the left, but this is not true, right? On left pic MTB tire have the smallest blue protection.

Also see that now exist better tire E-Plus maded for e-bikes.

EDIT:
Can you tell me more about these two other versions, Tour/MTB. Is it less protection than a slick tire? I see that it is possible to find a wider version of these tires, for example 2.10.

This is awsome crazy test of MTB tyres:

 

[99t4]

Just curious, I might have missed it in your explanations, but why do you need (or prefer?) knobby tread? Do you do a lot of riding on loose material, dirt, mud, snow, roots?

 

[Smurf2]

@9934
Yes. Dirt often, mud sometimes.
Tree branches. Glass on 2-3 locations, e.t.c.

At first, I am from village, outside of town. I'm crossing trough few villages before get to town. There is every year constructions on some road, and that last months. In most case there is gravel on one side of road, but you need to move to car and then you finish in gravel, mud, and other side asphalt is plenty of little stones.

The second, between towns, somewhere we not have bike paths, they are old (too old sidewalk), on old potholed asphalt, don't know how tell on English (the asphalt is crumbling),
so that asphalt causing big vibrations when drive, which is not good for slick tire, which can be destroyed fast, and electronic too. So I drive ebike about 10-15 kmh on those paths. Not have picture of that right now.

Third reason, the most road crossing in towns have not flat path, so when you come at crossing, you go up or down over the curbs, somewhere lower curb, somewhere higher. So at 50 km everyday, I am crossing like 100-200 of this.

Also, I love sometimes go to off road, like gravel roads near woods, e.t.c.

Btw, Tour tyres looks good too.

 

[Smurf2]

According to the post #33, I did little study those tires on Schwable page.

Are the tires:
-Marathon Plus
-Marathon Plus Tour
-Marathon Plus MTB
have all minimal 5mm layer protection? From description, I can see, it is true. Right?

Except Marathon E-Plus which have 4mm thick special rubber combined with 2 fabric layers, whatever that mean..

Tour and MTB have same rating for gravel, but for tarmac Tour is better.

 

[neptronix]

This is awsome crazy test of MTB tyres:

That's the exact model Schwalbe i used the most. It held up better than other tires
Much better than a standard tire, but with 20 things sticking out of it, 1 would eventually slow flat the tire.

What i didn't like about that test is that it doesn't simulate riding. Yes, we have thumbtacks in, but let's see what happens when you also take that tire over a few hard bumps, which will cause it to compress, and the thumbtacks to finally penetrate.

This is exactly like how schwalbe advertises their tires in bike stores. But, reality is not like that. And you also add to the fact that we have a motor and extra weight on the back..

In reality you need something closer to a motorcycle tire to have really good defense. Schwalbes give you another 50% defense against flats, but what you need in some areas is another 100%.

Schwalbes max out somewhere around 7mm total rubber in the weak part that doesn't have tread, from my measurements. That's before we physically compress the tire, so we may be in reality at more like 5mm or less.

So basically if schwalbes don't scratch your itch, you can move up to slime/stans no flat, but the next step up is motorcycle tires.

 

[99t4]

I didn't see any conditions in your photos that call for knobby tires. Knobby tires are less stable on pavement. There is less rubber in contact with the road, and the knobs themselves squirm. Knobby tires also have larger areas where there are no knobs (where the depth of the rubber is much thinner, easier for sharp objects to penetrate further) making them more prone to flats. This is based on my own personal experience.

Here are some terrain that are more appropriate for knobby tires:

I did run Schwalbe Marathon Plus for over a year. No flats at all. But low traction in the rain.

 

[Smurf2]

99t4 says:
What i didn't like about that test is that it doesn't simulate riding.

Yes, that I think same.
When tire is pushed on weight, that 5mm maybe not be 5.

But, what Is my opinion, if you see all my 6 punctures, 5 of them could have been prevented by Marathon Plus tire, except 1 which was nail. That is much spare of time and work.

99t4 says:
Here are some terrain that are more appropriate for knobby tires

Sometimes I go on that terain, but better no with DIY ebike, because of electronic.

Also love this video 18000 kilometers.

 

[neptronix]

99t4 is right on the money, for flat protection, you want something as close to a full tread as you can possibly get!

 

[Smurf2]

To add more rubber, I bought extra thick tubes to accompany them. I was waiting until my next flat to install the extra thick tubes, but I've been flat-free for the last 1,000 miles so I haven't mounted them yet. I'd be happy if I could keep my flats to one per year.

Hey, which rubber you bought ?

99t4 is right on the money, for flat protection, you want something as close to a full tread as you can possibly get!

That is good to know. I learned so much here in this forum. Before I thought that MTB tires are best to preventing punctures because of big threads, but now I see that is not true.

 

[From-A-To-B]

Hey, which rubber you bought ?

Sunlite's Thorn Resistant line, like this: Amazon.com

Mine came in a yellow box like that. The box is the size of a brick and the tubes are just about as heavy. That much rubber adds a lot of weight. I bought mine from somewhere other than Amazon, but that link was handy.

 

[sanfierro321]

Schwalbe Marathon Plus 26" SmartGuard 47-559 26 x 1.75" / 559 x 47 mm

Bought more than a year ago when rebuilding my 48V 500W Samebike LO26 (using Zoom 565 Forgo 26" fork and DNM AOY-36RC shock, they are not the best quality but they do make the ride pretty smooth, so I can't speak for shock absorption of the tires themselves).

3750 km with a 60kg rider, only one flat so far, when thick nail punctured the rear.

Rear rim is stock 26" chinese alloy, a bit thinner than I'd like, around 13-15mm inner maybe? Front wheel is a mavic fts-x 26", 21 mm inner. Both tires were very difficult to install, after the puncture reinstalling was a bit easier but still difficult.
2.0mm spokes on front, 2.3mm on rear (a bit overkill), not sure if that could make a difference in ride quality at all?

I pump them to 4 bars on front and 4.5 on rear, the recommendation is 3-5 bar.

I use inner tubes in them with Stan's notubes sealant since the first puncture. I have to note that on another 26x4 fatbike near me, Stan's has failed to seal a tube before, while slime's tube specific stuff has saved the day multiple times without even having to pump.

It's keeping the tread depth much better than the chaoyang 26x2.0 knobby mtb tires it came with, and definitely better than the 26x1.75 Fincci (from Amazon) city tires I've used before, both of which needed replacement in the first 3-4000 kms of the bike.

The Schwalbes look close to new after 3700 kms.

Edit: I have to add that this is in Ireland; weather is never too cold or hot here, so I don't know how would it hold up in a climate with proper summers and winters

 

[calab]

Sunlite's Thorn Resistant line, like this: Amazon.com

Mine came in a yellow box like that. The box is the size of a brick and the tubes are just about as heavy. That much rubber adds a lot of weight. I bought mine from somewhere other than Amazon, but that link was handy.

Kenda thorn resistant tubes are available.

 

[Smurf2]

And guys, there it is! Bought the tires you suggested me!
Imagine, I couldn't (almost) find them in all of Europe (26x2.0), and then I find them in a local bike shop at a much cheaper price = 37€!

At first, since they were sold out everywhere, I thought the bike shop had posted the wrong tire picture or description on their page, but when I got to the local shop, they were indeed those tires!

Only don't understand why each one has a different blue/green etiquette, maybe they came from different sources, but I don't see any difference in the tires!

 

[sanfierro321]

Imagine, I couldn't (almost) find them in all of Europe (26x2.0)

If sold out locally (stock in Ireland is always a problem for me), check bike-discount, bike-components, rosebikes, bike24, chainreactioncycles, singletrackbikes even ... Choose the cheapest total, shipped to you.

 

[From-A-To-B]

Good luck! Hope they work as well for you as they have for me. 37 euro / $40USD is a terrific price for those tires.

 

[Smurf2]

Good luck! Hope they work as well for you as they have for me. 37 euro / $40USD is a terrific price for those tires.

Thanks guys!

 

[neptronix]

Howdy folks.

So i'm about to start a build and did some research.
- Tannus airless tires seem to generally be disliked for floppy handling, and near impossible install
- Tannus Armour inserts have a lot of complaints about added rolling resistance but otherwise don't seem to murder handling like the full airless tires do. Some people like the added cushiness.
- The only thicker tire than the Schwalbe Marathon Plus i could find is the Marathon E-plus ( 27.5" - 29" only ) and Schwalbe Pick Up, both which look like they may have a tiny bit additional protection over the Plus, at most.

There's also some well instrumented tests of the Tannus Armour and some other liners here:
Puncture Resistant Tire Liners Test | Bicycle Rolling Resistance

Tannus Armour rolling resistance addition isn't as bad as i expected:



The Marathon e-plus also seems to have significantly improved flat resistance over the regular marathon plus:
Ref: Schwalbe Marathon E-Plus Rolling Resistance Review



No ratings on that site for the Schwalbe Pick up. I do suspect they have a harder compound ( they are said to ride a little harder ) and this may infer some additional puncture resistance over a typical bike tire.

I think for the situation where we have lots of nails and metal things in the road, we can't do much about that regardless of what tire we chose. But we can definitely improve over the thin stock tires that came on that bike.

Maybe a magnet somehow hanging in front of the wheel would be the best solution.

 

[neptronix]

I called Schwable North America out of curiosity.

What i was told:
- Marathon Plus Tour is probably the second most flat proof tire now.
- Schwalbe e-plus is pretty new and they're considering doing other sizes. I made a strong case for 26" compatibility. It has an extra 1mm of protection at the very least over the Marathon Plus Tour. This would make it the king of lineup. Correlates well with the tests i shared.
- He's not 100% sure, but suspects that the Schwalbe Pick Up is slightly better than the Marathon Plus Tour.

I had a marathon plus tour and found it inadequate in goathead hell out here. I'm hoping that the marathon e-plus comes to 26" sizes. I would be willing to try it.



( misc goatheads and metal things picked out of my tires during a 10 mile ride )