Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @370A

[Hyena]

The 3 speed switch does seem to limit current too, and if speed is set to 60% do you appear to get 60% of the max current as well, but I'm guessing you want an economy sort of mode to be able to go full speed without using the extra juice during acceleration ?
There's a shunt bias resistor which in theory could be switched to effectively have the same effect and soldering up the shunt (or removing one).
I tried adding another resistor in parallel across this resistor with a switch, so when flicked it roughly halfed the value of the bias resistor and so should have had big effect on current limit. It didnt seem to though, and had minimal effect on my max current draw. Maybe there's more to it, or maybe I had the wrong resistor ?

This is something that should be easily implemented at the factory level.

 

[amberwolf]

I haven't wired up the switch on the Lyen 6FET yet to test that, but the same type of switch on the Fusin 6FET does that--limits speed *and* current. Very handy.

One thing to keep in mind with the Lyen (presumably all XC/116 controllers): If you program the switch settings without actually having a switch installed, it defaults to being "on" the second setting. So your max throttle will be limited to whatever that second setting is. Meaning if you set them up so that 1=33%, 2=66%, 3=100%, but have no switch wired up, the max you will be able to throttle up to is 66%.

If you don't have a switch on there, make sure to leave it at 100%.

 

[mwkeefer]

I can confirm with Lyens and other shunt based controllers... if you configure an additional shunt of equal value in parallel but on a relay with VERY low to NO on resistance... the result will be 1/2 the programmed power (approx) until the relay is engaged. The shunt will run from GROUND (pack level) to the input of a SPDT relay so that it is in NC (normally connected) mode... when you flip the switch it will in effect return the unit to normal programming / limits.

That will give you a decent startup at lower power and then full power when needed.

Speed Limit %60 will not truly limit your current until you reach the 60% max speed, then it limits (which is PWM)

I'm working on a bridge right now... a resistor ladder for the controllers to replace the shunt and offer 1/2, 3/4, 1 and 1.25x current by switching in and out alternate / additional sense resistors - this will be different for all controllers (the needed resistor values) but... I will document it if successful so others can replicate the result.

-Mike

 

[Arlo1]

Speed Limit %60 will not truly limit your current until you reach the 60% max speed, then it limits (which is PWM)
-Mike

Im not sure what you meen explain more!
I have a 50% setting 75% and 120% programed on my methods 18 fet and the 50 % setting has 2x the resolution with 1/2 the top speed. So for my the current is diffinatly cut back in the same % as the speed infact thats why I have those settings because on the fast settings my bike is hard to control it just wants to wheely.

 

[Lyen]

Lyen,

Is there any way we can change it so the 3 speed switch input instead changes 3 different current limit settings, or any other way to achieve at least 2 different current settings via a flip of a switch instead of plugging to a computer? To me that would be far more useful than multiple speed settings.

Hi John,

There are multiple ways to implement the 2 different current settings via a flip of a switch. All the controllers you have purchased from me do have a speed limit function and the sweet thing about it is you do not even have to deal with the computer at all. All you have to do is to open the controller enclosure, connector a couple wires on the circuit board; one to the GND; with another to the SL pad or hole. You then wire the to a SPST "single-pole, single-throw" flip switch.

Regards,
Lyen

 

[John in CR]

While the SL is probably useful, that's not what I'm looking for, since all that does is limit the throttle. That's what a throttle is for. I'd like to be able to change those current limits. eg On my Methods 100V100A controller, the controller is tuned to extreme limits. Using the SL limiting might accomplish most of what I want on flat ground, but my low turn count motors put it at risk on hills, especially using the SL. Also, right now it's rainy season, so I get caught on wet roads more often and having high currents on tap is dangerous.

Think of it like a Performance/Normal type of setting, instead of just a throttle limiter. If it's not possible, fine, but if it is possible it would be a very useful feature, especially to reduce controller risk on hills.

John

 

[Lyen]

Hi John,

Thanks for providing more details on what you wanted to do, I do see what you mean now. You can simply remove one end of the shunt on the controller circuit-board and hard wire the removed ends (one on the circuit board and one on the end of the shunt) to a pair of wire and to a SPST switch mount externally where it is easy to reach. This way, you can reduce the current output without reducing the speed.

Regards,
Lyen

While the SL is probably useful, that's not what I'm looking for, since all that does is limit the throttle. That's what a throttle is for. I'd like to be able to change those current limits. eg On my Methods 100V100A controller, the controller is tuned to extreme limits. Using the SL limiting might accomplish most of what I want on flat ground, but my low turn count motors put it at risk on hills, especially using the SL. Also, right now it's rainy season, so I get caught on wet roads more often and having high currents on tap is dangerous.

Think of it like a Performance/Normal type of setting, instead of just a throttle limiter. If it's not possible, fine, but if it is possible it would be a very useful feature, especially to reduce controller risk on hills.

John

 

[Hyena]

Lyen I tried this exact thing too, using 12ga wire and a 30a rated switch to keep losses to a minimum and found it only added an extra 10 amps instead of the expected 20-30

 

[John in CR]

Thanks Lyen,

I don't think that would work on my Methods controller, because it has that precision low resistance shunt which seems to span the gap on the bottom of the board along with 4 more normal looking shunt wires on the top. I think those on top have very little effect on the total shunt value.

How about this as an alternative to get what I want? I know many of the Curtis controllers have A and B program settings. Maybe Infineons have the same capacity, but no one has uncovered it yet. With the Curtis it's 2 completely separate sets of programmable settings for the controller changed via a simple switch.

 

[Ariane]

Hi John,

I didn't know if you are using a Cycle Analyst but you can i have a amp limiter by flipping a switch here is the post that talking about it and how to do it.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15528

Hope it's help good day!
Black Arrow

 

[Arlo1]

While the SL is probably useful, that's not what I'm looking for, since all that does is limit the throttle. That's what a throttle is for. I'd like to be able to change those current limits. eg On my Methods 100V100A controller, the controller is tuned to extreme limits. Using the SL limiting might accomplish most of what I want on flat ground, but my low turn count motors put it at risk on hills, especially using the SL. Also, right now it's rainy season, so I get caught on wet roads more often and having high currents on tap is dangerous.

Think of it like a Performance/Normal type of setting, instead of just a throttle limiter. If it's not possible, fine, but if it is possible it would be a very useful feature, especially to reduce controller risk on hills.

John

Hey john This is exactly what I did with my methods controler. I have the 3 speed switch hidden on my bike and as you select a speed with lower % It accelerates faster and the throtle is less touchy try it out man its awesome. People crash way to easy on the 120% setting because of how touchy the throtle is!

 

[mwkeefer]

Thanks Lyen,

I don't think that would work on my Methods controller, because it has that precision low resistance shunt which seems to span the gap on the bottom of the board along with 4 more normal looking shunt wires on the top. I think those on top have very little effect on the total shunt value.

How about this as an alternative to get what I want? I know many of the Curtis controllers have A and B program settings. Maybe Infineons have the same capacity, but no one has uncovered it yet. With the Curtis it's 2 completely separate sets of programmable settings for the controller changed via a simple switch.

John,

Whatever shunts methods used, you can order from Digikey in the same precision and values... paralleling in shunts of identical value would lower the main shunt resistance raising power... but if you were to replace the existing shunts with ones of double their resistance and add a switching mech to enable another shunt (or two) in parallel on demand - you have acheived your desired goal.

Also... the % of throttle settings are a tad deceptive, they don't limit peak currents and they don't rescale throttle range (ie: Meaning 100% throttle is not = to full 60% if thats where it's programmed) just limit the range so maybe 1/2 throttle will become your cutoff for more, above that the throttle is useless.

I will try to post a quick schematic of this and some pics if you don't follow what I mean.

Hyena - even using X guage and heavy relays you are going to increase the resistance of somthing as tiny as a shunt (meaning as low impedance)... it may be that the circuit alone (the wire and relay) would present sufficient resistance to act as a shunt for you... that would surely increase the power... I would also double check your math because I've done this very thing using 5v relays to switch a second shunt in and out of parallel with a first - I usually take a blown 9FET and remove the shunts (2 of em) then configure a 6FET with 1 of those 2 shunts which gives me around 1/2 the current rated, the second shunt I switch in parallel and when on I see a tad lower than double the current - the two modes worked out to be (with programming at 20A in the controller) 12A and 21A - This is perfect for my application, obviously changing up shunt values would give different power levels.

Hope this helps guys!
-Mike

 

[Arlo1]

Also... the % of throttle settings are a tad deceptive, they don't limit peak currents and they don't rescale throttle range (ie: Meaning 100% throttle is not = to full 60% if thats where it's programmed) just limit the range so maybe 1/2 throttle will become your cutoff for more, above that the throttle is useless.


Hope this helps guys!
-Mike

IM telling you this is not how my methods controler works! So if I use the switch on the 50 % setting and turn it 10% of a turn I get 1/2 of the power and 1/2 of the speed of if it was 100% setting and turned 10%!
The throttle DOES RESCALE and the cutoff is not changed!

 

[mwkeefer]

Arlo1,

I stand corrected with regard to the Methods controller I would assume it's an 846 MCU?

-Mike

 

[John in CR]

My understanding is that the SL will limit current, but in a roundabout way through throttle limitation, that's effective on the flats, so that will work fine for slick conditions. The problem for me is hills with these high speed wind motors. I need really need to be able to limit my phase currents more for hills to help protect the controller. It's fine when I can just blast up the hills at 30mph or more.

I just blew another stock 15fet today. I thought my mods were below the threshold, but I got caught on an 8% hill with an extra 20lbs of batteries and a m@#%^#'ing truck was slowing traffic to the 20-25mph range and sizzle pop after 2km of that controller torture. That's what I get for monkeying with a controller that survived 18 months of my abuse and trying to squeeze a bit more performance out. I must have been right at the threshold before I fiddled with the shunt a bit more. arrrgghh.

Hopefully Doc has good success with the series/parallel switching of the motor windings, because that's the real answer for me...cutting my Kv in half at the flip of a switch, which in this case will put the end of my current limiting at about 18mph. I'd have to get off road to get hills steep enough to do the controller in then.

 

[Hyena]

Bugger John!
What about setting up a contactor to halve your pack voltage ? That will quickly drop your speed and the load on the controller. It'll also allow you to go twice as far at a lower speed if necessary for long trips.

Hyena - even using X guage and heavy relays you are going to increase the resistance of somthing as tiny as a shunt (meaning as low impedance)... it may be that the circuit alone (the wire and relay) would present sufficient resistance to act as a shunt for you... that would surely increase the power...

I'll have to reinvestigate it again. This was about 6 months back but I'm sure the difference was less than I expected. I didn't actually add a second shunt, I was switching in a few strands of copper wire, which should have had the same effect. It worked without the switch as a high current mode but as soon as I added the switch it reverted to about 10 amps more than the stock level. Maybe my switch was adding alot of resistance ? It's unlikely, but I wasnt using a relay like you...

 

[mwkeefer]

SL doesn't limit amps but top speed, its full bore AMPs at the preset limit until the speed % set in SL is reached then the current limiting to maintain speed kicks in... I have tested this on all but methods controllers although I have 3 of his here now and so I will do some testing just to confirm it's the same with his as with all the other infineon style boards.

I don't know if anyone else has scoped the 116 (EB2XX platform) but there is some difference to the waveform between the 846 MCU (EB8XX) and these I'm not qualified to even venture a guess as to what is happening or why, but someone else may be able to.

-Mike

 

[John in CR]

Thanks Mike. This is the EB218-A-2 board, and Methods explained that it's a throttle limit, not strictly a speed limit. I'm pretty sure that doesn't help me with my partial throttle on hills problem, and that's why I've been saving this controller for a build that won't have current limiting throughout my typical riding speed range, or at least be able to make a change for hills.

John

 

[Floont]

.
I would love to beta test any controller parameter program that will work more than 2/3 of the time! How do I sign up for it, Lyen?

And where do you folks get these other Keywin versions I keep reading about?

FA