BMC 600wv2-T, speed, and 5304 and 5305 Reviews

[toddcarpenter]

Hi all. My e-biking got off to a rough start this summer as I dove into this crazy world head first and without a clue. (I'm sure you've seen plenty of use clueless by now). I decided to try a couple of different kits this summer because I didn't think I could afford the pheonix brute kit that seemed like the one I needed. I saw some kits on the board for sale from different vendors and decided on a puma kit and a bmc v2-T. I live in an area that is nothing but hills with my daily trip home consisting of a 4 mile long hill of about 7 percent grade peaking to 24 percent on two different climbs on the way. Therefore I thought I would need the torque of a geared motor to get myself (at 280lbs) and pulling my 3 year old son (35 lbs) in a trailer behind. So not only was I building the bike for the hills as I've seen a few post on here about, but I was also building for pulling since it's going to be my daily driver to and from work 10-20 miles each way depending on where I'm working.

When I received the puma motor, I cluelessly hooked up the e-crazyman controller with the wires matching on the phases and fried the controller within 1/4 mile. I didn't know that the vendor had put instructions on how to wire it in the box (I late found them under a flap of the box as I was sending the motor back). It was a simple miss communication and the vendor refunded me my money on the kit because I was wanting to get my e-bike going as fast as possible and he didn't have any other controllers in stock at the time for replacement.

In the meantime I received my BMC V2-T and it wired up no problem and ran pretty awesomely for about 20 miles. This motor did 24.8mph on the flats with a 48v pack so I was pretty happy. It was powered by a crystalyte 24-72v 35amp controller and would pull the 24 percent grade at 10mph pulling 34 amps with pretty good pedaling and then accelerate as the grade lessened to 7 percent and I could pedal comfortably up it in 3rd gear (on a 7 speed Haro Heartland comfort bike). But, at the top of the hill the first trip up it, the power shut off and I thought I hit LVC on my 48v20ah v-power pack. The cycle analyst read 48v when it died, but I thought maybe this was a bms issue with the pack so I charged it back up and tried again the next day. Then it again died on the top of the hill in almost the exact same spot but this time the cycle analyst stayed on so I knew it wasn't a power issue. I also limited the amps to 25 per the person that sold me the kit so I didn't think it was overheating either. When I would try and push on the throttle it would surge violently at first, so I didn't do that again. Then I let it cool down over night and headed out the next day to see if it was going to act correctly for me and it would only run intermittently for a couple of seconds and then cut power to the motor. It didn't seem to matter what my throttle was set at or the amp draw so that made me think the halls were not right and I sent that motor back to the vender who was out of V2-T motors and sent me back a different controller and a Speed version of the BMC.

The speed motor was awesome on the flats with the 48v pack pulling 25amps at 35 mph with me on it (imagine bear on a tricycle), but it couldn't pull my hill without tremendous pedal effort from me and it would only go about 6mph up the hill so I knew that pulling my son would be almost impossible on a daily basis. Pulling that hill also drained half my 10ah battery pack in only 2 miles where the v2-T took me 20miles on one charge on the 10ah pack so I sent the speed motor back as it just didn't meet my needs.

Then I contacted e-bikes.ca per a recommendation by JohnRobHolmes and ordered a 5304 with an infineon 12 fet 35amp 48v controller. I hooked it up and after searching this site for a few weeks with all my other problems, I was much more careful with giving it throttle and discovered that the motor ran great....backwords. I thought "ugg, I'm just cursed and am not meant to be e-biking!" I then e-mailed e-bikes.ca and they got right back to me saying to switch the halls and that didn't exactly work. I then tried the infineon combo that had worked for someone else and that ran forward but rough and I didn't want to fry it like I did the puma controller combo. Then I went to the spreadsheet found in another thread and found a combo that ran forward and ran great. Phew, I finally learned enough to make one work, Yeah me! bout time.

This motor combo rocks and is what my wife currently uses. It does 33.6 mph on the flats with the 48v10ah pack (she likes the light weight) and goes about 18 miles on a charge. It pulls the hills at 30 amps (I limited it so far to make sure it's not getting too hot) and it goes 8mph up the hill pulling my son with a comfortable pedal effort that gives me a workout, but doesn't make me stop to take a breather either. E-bikes.ca is lightning fast with shipping and quick to answer my questions. I also now have their dc-dc converters and halo lights that rock as well on both my bikes.

I then won a 5305 on e-bay and bought a 48-60v supposed 45amp infineon controller and hooked that up with the combo that was suggested on the combos that work page and it runs pretty flawlessly, but won't pull over 30amps and the controller gets pretty dang hot after pulling my hills. At 48v this motor does 25mph on the flats and at 60v it does 32.5 mph. That makes me pretty happy speed wise although a solid 35-38mph would be even better (might have to learn how to reconfigure battery packs). This motor pulls the 24 percent grade at 9-10mph with a good pedal effort and accelerates to 13mph or so on the 7 percent part with good pedal effort. It's definitely not as speedy as the 5304, but it does pull well and it really is quite efficient. I went 10 miles the other day, pulling my son and 25 pounds of groceries, and barely dented the 60v10ah pack using only 4 amp hours.

Well, that's my story. I apologize to those vendors that I was ignorant to what I needed and how to put things together without blowing up parts. I also want to thank JohnRobHolmes, Ilia Brouk, and e-bikes.ca for all their support. Thank you all for the forum as well. Without it I wouldn't have probably kept at it and now I'm having so much fun and getting exercise to boot that I'm glad I was persistent enough to find combos that worked for me. I also appreciate those who have posted so much here and shared their wisdom and walks of shame as well (method). My son thanks you as well, he loves his rides into the daycare when I go to work and the rides to the soccer field. He wants an electric motor himself, but I think I'll wait until he's a little bit older lol.

 

[pdf]

You can probably give me some insight then. I live in a hilly area as well but not so much as you. My ride would be about 7 miles, one way. For about half to three-quarters of the trip, there is no such thing as "flat"; I am either going up or down slowly (5% or so) for a half mile or so, or up or down quickly (15-20%) for a short distance, say 1/4 mile or less.

Speed is not that critical; I'm guessing 25 mph would be plenty of top end. But I am frequently bushed and it is getting on toward evening at the end of the day and the ride home is where it is mostly uphill. I want a setup that would allow me to depend heavily on motor power when I am just not into the slog home. I think I am looking at either a BMC V1 or V2-T, or a 5305 Clyte. I don't think a 400 series would be able to do the hills, but I am not sure. I am figuring on 48V, either 10 or 15 AH as the power supply.

My bike is a Jamis hybrid and I weight about 165 lbs. I will only be carrying a briefcase, bikelock, and change of clothes for work.

There are no places near where I can try any e-bike setups; closest is probably 300+ miles. My primary problem is lack of experience in this area. As you have tried all the above systems, you can probably offer useful insight. I like the simplicity and probable corresponding durability of the DD system but I like the idea of a geared system for getting the motor into its power band for climbing. Also, the geared motor is about a third of the weight. What do you think of these two systems for my more moderate potential use?

 

[dogman dan]

My opinion is that the hills on Todds route are pretty severe for anything less than an x5. 4 miles of 7% would be getting my motors, geared or direct drive, pretty dang hot. Towing something, whoah.

Rolling hills may be better for a gearmotor. It's weird, but going down the hill at 20 mph makes the direct drive motor get hot too, even if you're not using a regen controller. So a gearmotor that cools on the downslope may be fine, even a tiny bafang or fusin. The advantage of a gearmotor would be that it could run on a less expensive, smaller size pack.

But seven miles of rolling hills will be an easy task for an x5. A 5305 sounds perfect to me for you pdf, as long as you invest in the right battery for it. You won't have to sweat overheating with a big ol x5.

My mid size aotema direct drive motor gets pretty warm on the part of my ride that is rolling hills, but my 5304 heats up much much slower due to it's mass, and greater surface area to radiate.

 

[toddcarpenter]

pdf, I would recommend the 5304 from ebikes.ca. They currently don't have any 5305s (correct me if I'm wrong here). They could set you up for around 650.00 or so with shipping and you would have reliability for the daily drive and could get away with a quality (headway or yesa) 48v10ah pack for the 7miles and it still pulls hills pretty solidly. It can really accelerate well and my wife flies up the hills on hers. If you are in the 180lb range, I highly recommend it. If you're closer to the 220ish range, then I would recommend the 5305 and just watch for deals on them or buy one all rimmed up from electricrider for 495 and then get your throttle and controller from ebikes.ca. They have the 12fet infineon 35amp for 105, which is pretty reasonable. Charge it up at work, then charge it after your home.

If you were thinking BMC then I would definitely look at the 600w V2-T instead of the V1 or speed model. It ran very well up the hills until I had my little problem. I believe that my motor probably just got too hot and I fried the halls on it most likely, or it could have just been a fluke bad motor as most people ride them trouble free. What I loved about the BMC was the freewheeling of it and the light weight. It was like it wasn't even there when pedaling on flat ground. I could cruise along on the flats at 18mph and only be pulling 1amp or so. It also hit 24.8mph on the flats with me on it and that's pretty impressive.

I am very happy with the x5's because I want it for my daily driver and reliability is critical to me. There have just been too many bad gear stories on the sphere for me to fully back the bmc's, but I don't want to badmouth them either because I truly loved the freewheeling and lightweight while it worked. I'm also far from an expert and please listen to the great advice the long time users on the sphere as they have much more experience than I do. I can only tell ya what worked for me and tell you that it's absolutely worth the effort to do your research ahead of time and learn from others who didn't (like me). If you go with the bmc then I would contact Ilia on the board as he is top notch to work with. Goodluck!!

 

[toddcarpenter]

I just re-read your weight and at 165lbs you would love the 5304. On rolling hills it doesn't hardly blink as it starts at the bottom of the hill at 33mph and slows to maybe 20mph by the top. A 5305 would work really well too and probably be more efficient for you as well, it just wouldn't go as fast if you need to blend with traffic at 48v.

 

[dogman dan]

No fluke todd, you just cooked that motor.

But you're right, a 5304 will be fine for the hills pdf describes. A decent battery and he'll be zooming right up those hills no prob. Mine, in a 24' rim does pretty good, and it's running on undersize 48v nicads, with a lame 20 amp controller to keep the damage down some. Still climbs like a mule compared to lesser motor.

For that ride though, just about anything would work ok.