Broken Spoke Problem - Drilling Rim Holes

[markz]

So if this serious attempt does not work, can only go down in diameter.

Mixture of Sapim double butted and them fuckin' Bavel no name generic spokes from China.
Last I counted 5 Sapims were toast on the last half ass semi-relace, its more like 10 or 12 now.
I know I know, Sapims Sapims Sapims, no generic shits. But I am cheap. The end product is going to be Sapims Sapims Sapims, but I will know after I drill out the nipple holes if it will work. AND IT WILL frocking WORK!
This is a multi-hour project. No fishing by the river today.


Any tips on drilling out rim holes?
This is my method, find a drill bit that is the same size as the rim nipple hole.
11/64'ths bit
Keep rim laced to eye ball the angle of the drill bit and do angle it to the right flange, either up or down (left or right flange)

I just did one spoke hole, I marked which angle I did it with a Sharpie marker.

Drilling rim holes is easy.
The trick I used after drilling out the rim holes with their eyelets, is I take a spare spoke, and I eyeball the nipple itself to the corresponding motor flange hole of the spoke and see if the installed spoke is inline with your eyeballing spoke. Another trick, is to drill at an angle ALOT more of an angle then it should. When you eyeball the drill bit, go beyond the corresponding flange hole to the outter edge of the motor itself. I had to do it 2 or 3 times to get it right. Just do my trick,

Here are some pics, easy to see the problem nipple angles and the proper nipple angles.







Took about 3 hours to get it all done.
Some eyelets are coming loose (but still staying on, they've just popped out a bit cuz of the drilled angle), means I am going to far (perhaps). I eyeball the drill bit to the top of the drill and go until it aims at the flange and no more.

Working good though.

Edit
OK I did a half ass lace job, nothing from scratch.... far from it. I did not take off all the spokes, and drill. I undid one spoke at a time, drilled the nipple hole, then put the spoke and nipple together again. No Boiled Linseed Oil, yet, thats my next task, to do a proper wheel build, which means using the marks I made on the rim to indicate which way the spoke is going, then taking all the spokes out and doing it right, with Sapim spokes and nipples.

I did a lot of 'just less then massive' power turns, for some reason I like to do them in the red gravel of the baseball field, plus I did 8 on pavement. I will get on tightening it all up decently and just take it easy just so I can ride. I missed my fishing trip today, 5 hours frocking around with the ebike. The end result of power turns are a handful of spokes are just loose. Two spokes broke at the J-bend of the spoke. These were, more then likely, spokes that were used on the mis-aligned nipple-to-spoke holes. The good news is the spokes always broke off at the nipple before, and a few would break off at the J-bend.

 

[markz]

Update
I intentionally rode with the rim warped to the chain stay. Fast, cautious turns, no curbs, smooth single track and slow rocks. I'd say 6-8 loose-loose spokes and 2-4 semi-loose spokes. Sat down for a good "roadside" tightening and true then did slalom turns. Replaced 3 of the spokes that broke at the J-bend. After that round, I did 8-10 power turns slalom style on the pavement.

Im heading out tonight again, and will do some very intense, long lasting maneuvers to test the half ass spoke job.
Letting back wheel hit curb. Slalom turns on pavement, and tight circles on pavement.

 

[amberwolf]

If you lace a wheel up such that it starts out with problems, especially highly uneven tension like what you get when a rim is warped that much, then it will damage spokes (and posssibly rim) so that later on it will have further problems; as spokes break they will cause uneven tension on other spokes, which can cause some of them to weaken or break.

If you "test" it hard while it's in that condition, you might as well just replace all the spokes on it after you test it, because they could be damaged in a way that will fail later--especially if any of them are already failing.


If you build the wheel correctly first, then stress-relieve, tension, true it, then test ride it, reverify it's still tensioned correctly and trued, then it should last you just fine.


But if it's not finished to start with, then testing can just break it and leave the unbroken stuff in questionable condition, since a wheel is a complete structure (like a bridge) and it all works together to support itself--with part of the support not there, the rest takes loads it's not meant to.

 

[markz]

Ah good points.

I did ride it hard, nothings changed afterwards.

Going to do a complete relace tomorrow. Full meal deal! Including the nipple oil and the stress relief. Though I like to do that both ways, squeezing the paired spokes together, and placing it axle on the ground and relieving the spokes that way too. I got a good set of spokes ready and waiting.

You are right though, yet again, I have to slowly untension the rim, 1/4 turn at a time. I have to be in the right mind frame for the patience that lacing a wheel requires. Cant rush it, just put on the [strike]Yoga[/strike] GNR's music and be one with the bicycle Gods.

 

[markz]

OK Next up what I will try is having all the J-bends of the spokes so the shaft does not have to go over the flange to reach the rim. So the term being "Inbound" spoke where the head of the spoke is on the outside. I believe I have a few issues at play here. 1st one being the flange holes are frocked, 2nd could be the use of hardware store washers for the head of the J and the all important alternating "Inbound" "Outbound" so the matching pair spokes dont touch.

Boith flanges Inbound was the way I originally laced my first ebike wheel, based on the Russians picture of a complete MXUS 3k.

Another lace job tonight/tomorrow and get the puppy sold so I can move onto mid-drive.

 

[amberwolf]

You can drill new spoke holes between the others; I did that for mine to use the 13/14 sapim spokes without washers.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86180&p=1260612&hilit=spoke*+drill+flange#p1260612

 

[MadRhino]

I have ordered my QS 205 with double drilling from the factory, so I can use 14ga spokes. This motor is normally coming with BIG spoke holes. I had to use flange washers on the Cromotor. Now I have plain 14ga a perfect fit, happiness is in small things. :wink:

For the rim, I always use nipple washers and long nipples. They are making a big difference in wheel life, for very little trouble lacing the wheel.