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Brushed Motor, sans controller

markass530

10 W
Joined
Sep 5, 2012
Messages
66
In a setup with a Brushed motor, no controller, what limits the amps? Is it just the motor takes what it's spec'd for (for ex 24 volt system 250 watt motor, its using a little bit north of 10 amps) or does it take as much as the battery will give it? what about when its over volted? Gracias
 
markass530 said:
In a setup with a Brushed motor, no controller, what limits the amps?
Nothing except winding resistance, which isn't much.

You can use a brushed with no controller, just switches, but if you put a high load on it and keep it at a speed lots slower than it's normal unloaded speed at the same voltage, then it will get hot, probably burn up.
 
There are other things that limit current when a brushed motor is used with no controller, not just the winding resistance. The battery internal resistance and the wiring a switch resistance will play a part in setting the current, but the greatest impact will be from the motor back EMF (the voltage the motor generates from spinning that opposes the battery voltage).

It's the latter that sets the no load speed - when the motor is powered from a battery and spins up under no load it will run at the speed where the back EMF is close to the battery voltage. Load the motor down and it draws a current that's determined by the voltage across the motor winding resistance, wiring resistance and battery internal resistance, from Ohm's Law (I = V/R). The voltage will be the battery voltage minus the motor back EMF at the loaded RPM.
 
Jeremy Harris said:
There are other things that limit current when a brushed motor is used with no controller, not just the winding resistance. The battery internal resistance and the wiring a switch resistance will play a part in setting the current, but the greatest impact will be from the motor back EMF (the voltage the motor generates from spinning that opposes the battery voltage).
That's true, but the maximum current it will draw in use is typically practically limited by the winding resistance, especially since often these types of DIY setups by the barely-initiated are used with SLA taht can supply enough amps for a long enough time to easily overheat the motor. ;)

(not that I would know this from experience or anything :lol: )
 
You're right, AW, I was really trying to make the point that it's not the battery voltage and winding resistance that determine the current drawn, but the difference between the battery voltage and motor back EMF at any given RPM plus the total circuit resistance. The latter can be a fair bit higher than just the motor winding resistance. All told, it's not at all unusual for the battery internal resistance, together with the wiring resistance, to be around 20% or more of the total circuit resistance, maybe a lot more than this with batteries that have a particularly high internal resistance (SLAs, low max discharge rate packs like the Ping packs etc).
 
well I'm running a 3 position switch at the handle bars that is either off, 8S Lipo, or 12S . after i proved it worked to myself, I Upgraded all the wiring and it was a good bit faster. Just gotta make sure not to go to 12S from a dead stop (Made that mistake once and the frocker tried to go airborne). Will work until i get a controller I Guess . Thanks for your feedback
 
Just make sure you have a connector you can yank out when that switch welds itself shut. ;) Even with a controller it can happen where it fails shorted, and the motor is stuck on at full power, but it happens more often with switches, since almost no one doing DIY ebikes like this ever uses one large enough for the load being switched. ;)
 
the switch is pretty beefy, I Ran it for 10 minutes with a watt meter to get an idea, it was pulling 40 amps @ 40+ volts up hill (didn't do that for to long) best I could tell was no controller is really inefficient.
 
It's not really the current thru the switch while simply operating that's an issue, it's the turning off of the switch under load, which draws an arc across it's contacts inside, burning them. Same thing happens to a lesser degree when turning it on. At some point, it's not uncommon for the switch to weld shut. Depending on the kind of switch (toggle vs paddle vs pushbutton vs rocker), and what it's made of (metal vs plastic), it might survive being forced off again once. but usualy there isnt' enough torque against the contacts to force them apart before the part you hold breaks off, so your'e stuck with the motor on full-force until you unplug power.

That's why I suggest a plug you can undo one-handed very easily, so you can stop the motor if it gets stuck on like that while riding.

If your brakes are good enough you can still easily stop the bike itself even with the motor on full, but that won't help the motor as it may burn up from the high current at stall before you can get off the bike, let go of the brake, and fiddle with the switch or wiring or pull the battery off.


CrazyBike2 has a circuit breaker right where I can pull it easy, between my knees, because back when I had SLA and a brushed motor on there, I wanted some way to cut off power should the worst happen (never did, thankfully).


This is not an issue with brushless motors, but brushed, controller or not, it can be.
 
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