Brushless dual 6kw ALIEN Power system - electric longboard

[Ttw]

Just made my first small real trip back and forth (2.6km) and wow there is so much power ! Couldn't go more than a third of full throttle.
So here is my preliminary review.

The installation of the kit is super easy. Beetbocks provide a series of video tutorial on how to setup and adjust the kit which is very helpful.
He also provide paper instructions.
I had one issue on first ride the belt was going lose after few meters so i had to put a small piece of metal in the motor hub so it doesn't move anymore (tightening the 4 screw wasn't enough for preventing it to move a bit)
It didn't move since then and doesn't look like it is going to happened.

Bruno was very available and VERY helpful with the setup and programation of the controller.
Performance are realy nice, the motor is struggling a bit at start up so you just have to kick once to help it. It also help you keep your balance so it is not even a con.
I went up very stiff hill on a crapy road and it wasnt an issue at all. I fell like i can get 30kph uphill without any issue.
Breaking is quite nice to have too even if it is a bit rough. Still very helpful especially down hill.
I didnt ride enough to talk about heat but i dont think ill issue with that.
The provided software is quite nice and easy to use once you know what you are doing.

Ill probably do an other review with photo/video when I fix my boxing issue.

 

[bluemc]

@TTW do you have the dual motors or single? What are you using for a remote? Are you using all Alien products? What are you using for your battery cover?

 

[Ttw]

as i said few post ago i have single motor, cheapest hobbyking remote and all alien stuff.
no cover for now but i dont like it that way.

 

[frailey91]

He said that he's using a single motor a few posts back, he stated that on the previous page 11.

Otherwise I'm curious to know more about the piece of metal that he had to insert in the mount to prevent the belt from coming loose? I'm ordered all the parts for my board and so I would like to know more about that should I have to do the same thing as well.

I'm personally going with the dual motor setup (same as beetbocks), however if possible I would like to use an extra battery since I want more range (my old Elektroksate board did 25 mile range, that's miles not kilometers), I had the ES 600 board, was a blast to ride but it was so damn un-reliable with the speed control board burning out 4 times in about 4 months and $175 bucks a pop, this last time I ordered a new one, installed it and it burnt out in 10 min!!! I waited a month to get it since they send from China - that's why I did a Google search and found this forum, I figured it was best if I made my own board that would hopefully be more reliable and easier to get parts for etc.

The battery is the only thing that I have a major question about though, my Elektroskate board used their new 36 volt, 15 amp LiFePO4 battery, it was a monster and that's why I could get 25 - 30 miles going full throttle with my old Elekatroskate board. This battery is $600 new, I would love to be able to just use it to power this new board but I haven't had any straight answers if I can or not? Below are two URL's of the battery . This battery uses Dean connectors. The box measures 16.5 inches long, 7.5 inches wide, and 2 inches deep.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5248452/BPT charts/IMG_0282.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5248452/BPT charts/IMG_0281.JPG

 

[Ttw]

on that photo (from beetbocks) http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s621/richard_bailey1/3a0ce47d17b6108fea25d884cebc1f0e_zps0f71ca5b.jpg
you can see there is a space at the right. this space can be adjusted to get the belt tension you want. You are supposed to find the good fit and tighten the 4 screws to fix it in place. In my case this piece was shifting to the right after few meters, maybe bacause of vibration or maybe because i could not screw them enough (i have crapy tools..).
So what i did is put a 1 or 2 milometer wide piece of metal in that hole so it can't shift to the right anymore.
I think i am the only one one of about at least 10 people to have this issue so you probably wont get it. I might have done something wrong too. Will see what richard thinks of it.
Also I dont see why you would not be able to use your lifepo. You just have to buy/make the right connector and your should be good.
Might be a bit heavy thought..

 

[frailey91]

Ttw - just making sure I understand, is this the hole you are referring too?? See the image with the arrow. Also as far as weight, I don't mind the weight, I want the furthest range that I can get. With my POS Elektroskate I would get 25 - 30 miles (when it wasn't broken down) and so I got spoiled with that. I like to explore the many bike trails in my area and so range is important to me and I'm willing to sacrifice some weight to do so. As far this build - it's probably still going to be a few weeks before I have everything, I just ordered the parts from Richard and Bruno last week, along with the other stuff like the board, wheels, etc. As I told Richard, I'm dying in anticipation waiting!! Even the POS Elektroksate was so much fun, therefore I have so much hope for this project - and hopefully it will be a LOT more reliable than my Elektrokate board was - the problem with that board was the speed control, the battery and motor were fine, but the speed control always burned out.

 

[sk8norcal]

The battery is the only thing that I have a major question about though, my Elektroskate board used their new 36 volt, 15 amp LiFePO4 battery, it was a monster and that's why I could get 25 - 30 miles going full throttle with my old Elekatroskate board. This battery is $600 new,

what is the max amp of the controller?
top speed at full throttle?

if your battery 36v15ah is rated 1c (which seems like most cheap lifepo4 packs), max amp is 15amps
2c is 30amps.
I read pulling too much amps on these packs shorten their cycle life.

 

[Ttw]

yep frailey91, thats the hole i am talking about.
Sorry if im not always clear, english is not my native language
Sk8norcal has a point with max current from the battery but I never seen a battery pack below 20c and you should be good even if the max is 10c.

edit: you are right, i don't know about usual C rating for lifepo.

 

[sk8norcal]

we are talking lifepo4 not lipo.
from what i read, generic lifepo4 ebike batteries have typical 1c rating. (ping 2c)
and that hobbyking overates their c rating.

 

[frailey91]

sk8norcal - I'm not really sure what it is, I didn't see it listed on the battery pack and Elektrokate's website doesn't list it, I emailed them a while back asking for this and they never replied back. That was the other problem - getting those guys to answer emails was a pain. Otherwise from what I understand is that their motors and batteries are generally fine, it's their control boards that are the weak point, of course besides the poor quality deck etc.

I had the ES 900 supersport model, it had a top speed of about 23 mph, so it wasn't that fast (though way faster than the new Zboards which top out at 17 mph), however it had crazy amounts of torque - from a stop, it would throw you off if you were not careful with the throttle, it would get up to max speed in about 2 - 3 seconds and it would hold it on the steepest of grades - I went up some hills that you would have trouble walking up! So it was super fun to ride, the motor was super strong/torque, however the speed control box went out all the time!! Honestly I would still like to have the board as a secondary board to ride in addition to the new one here that I'm building, all I need is a control board that will not burn out! Like I said above in previous posts, the board was a blast to ride, however 4 of these speed control boards burnt out on me and each time it took 3 weeks to a month to get a replacement and this last time it burnt out in one day! So a $200 a pop, I just had to stop. But if I could find a speed control box that would link up with my battery and 900 watt motor with remote, I'd be happy because this is a fun board to ride.

The motor is 900 watts and while that is a lot less than the 2000 - 3000 watt motors here, it's a huge motor bigger than your hand, so that's why I think the torque is so high, but the top speed RPM is lower.

This is the board that I have, here's a URL http://fastestelectricskateboard.co.uk/shop/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=31

I've attached a picture of the control board (that has burned out 4 times now) also shows the motor and battery. If you have an idea where I could get a "Reliable" control board that won't go out all the time let me know, because while I'm SUPER EXCITED about this new board that i'm building with you guys, I wouldn't mind having this board working again as a backup

 

[frailey91]

we are talking lifepo4 not lipo.
from what i read, generic lifepo4 ebike batteries have typical 1c rating. (ping 2c)
and that hobbyking overates their c rating.

Yep Sk8norcal - I think it's probably best to NOT use my battery for the new board that I'm building and instead just go with batteries that Richard is using.

Otherwise I would like to get my old Elektroskate working again, if you see my post - if you have an idea what I can do about a reliable control board let me know, because spending $200 each time for a replacement control board from Elektroskate is not cutting it, their electronics suck and obviously can't handle the power. I simply need a speed control that can handle the power coming through and not burn out. Again if anyone has an idea for me let me know. thanks

 

[sk8norcal]

sounds like a ripoff for those controllers,
cheap ebike brushless controller are like $30 on ebay.
i would use that and just run wired throttle.

Richard is running lipos, which most are using.
I think the best plug and play solution for most people,
is a custom A123pack from Cellman, but they are pricey.

btw, rc motors are rated peak vs continuous
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=42481

 

[Silenthunter]

Has anyone had the following issue:

I use the Turnigy 6364-245kv engine and a Hobby King 150A ESC. I place my battery in the backpack and I connect the ESC with the battery through a 14 awg cable. I rode with this set up for a couple of weeks and this morning when I connected the battery to the cable, the 14 awg cable got so hot in a few seconds and smelled like it was starting to burn. The wire was super hot and I fried my cable connectors. After 15 minutes the wire cooled off. After inspecting it, the wire looked like it was in good condition.
I carefully reconnected to see what was going to happen. When I pressed the throttle, the engine started to shake/jiggle and made a grinding noise similar to what you hear when you are pressing the brakes. The wire start to heat up again so I quickly disconnected the battery.

Does anyone know what the problem may be?

Thank you!

 

[beetbocks]

Hi Ttw
In glad you found my kit easy to assemble, I am however concerned over the metal wedge you have used. The 4 m4 bolts should be more than strong enough to keep the motor plate in place. I can only assume there not tight enough or your pulley is not perfectly aligned .. Ive had my bracjet on and off loads of times during my test rides and its always gone back on fine .
Please let me know if tightening the bolts stops this?
Thanks

 

[beetbocks]

I say this on my website and have said it several times in my thread- ALIEN ESC's AND MOTORS ARE THE ONLY ONES I RECOMMEND AND THAT HAVE BEEN TRIED AND EXTENSIVELY TESTED TO WORK IN THIS APPLICATION...
They have been picked and matched together specifically for this application and any use of other electronic components is done so at your own risk..

 

[brunotollot]

Hi guy and sorry to be away too much, but me and Richard working many hours on different project and website. The ALIENPOWERSYSTEM website is not ready yet. For all the products please email me. On ebay page are few product due to ebay fees. The price on the website will be also cheape.

Has anyone had the following issue:

I use the Turnigy 6364-245kv engine and a Hobby King 150A ESC. I place my battery in the backpack and I connect the ESC with the battery through a 14 awg cable. I rode with this set up for a couple of weeks and this morning when I connected the battery to the cable, the 14 awg cable got so hot in a few seconds and smelled like it was starting to burn. The wire was super hot and I fried my cable connectors. After 15 minutes the wire cooled off. After inspecting it, the wire looked like it was in good condition.
I carefully reconnected to see what was going to happen. When I pressed the throttle, the engine started to shake/jiggle and made a grinding noise similar to what you hear when you are pressing the brakes. The wire start to heat up again so I quickly disconnected the battery.

Does anyone know what the problem may be?

Thank you!

About your issue it can be the motor wiring. Just check them. Also check if when you start throttle the ESC going hot and let me know.

Richard and I have tested rigourasly, mechanical and electronics parts, and (put in the bin) different parts before find the best setting. The mechanical components have been tested and stressed to make them very reliable, also the electronics. ESC and motors can and are been custom made to find the best setting in this application. The E-board kit's will be available soon. Twin 6000watt, twin 4000watt and single 2000 or 3000watt. I don't know the performance of any other brand of motors and ESC, so any build with the mechanical kit but different electronics is at your own risk. cheap controllers use cheap components. Also you can buy cheaper motors, but because they are higher kv, that mean less torque on startup, that is what an EV requires due to the extra weight that's been moved..

Feel free to contact me and Richard for any questions. Just keep in mind we are only 2, not 200 but we will try to answer as much as possible.

Here few pics of the ESC\motors combo kits

 

[Silenthunter]

Bruno, I will try to open the engine and check for any issues inside. The problem is when I only connect the cables the 14 awg extension (about 5 feet) gets so hot in 2-3 seconds that the end connections get fried.

I ordered the 10 AWG cable from HK and after 2 weeks I am still waiting. I decided to use the 14 awg till I get the 10 awg. I knew that this might happen so I was constantly checking the wire, esc and the engine and all were cold and working just fine. Each ride was about 5 miles every single time with speed @ 12-15 miles avg. I used it for about 2-3 weeks this way and no issues till yesterday.

Now when I only connect the cables it sparks and makes a boiling noise. The 14 awg cable gets so hot in 2-3 seconds that you can't even touch them. I tried to start the engine just to see what is going to happen in these 2-3 seconds and I hear a weird grinding noise similar to when you break and the engine just shakes for a sec and the noise increases. I don't know if this helps to better describe the issue but when the engine if off i can move it easily and there are no restrictions.The ESC and engine does not get hot.

I hope someone could explain the cause/solution of the problem.

Thank you!

 

[hmin7186]

Hi Bruno, I have one quick question.

What are the specs on those motors? can't seem to find the details on the motors that you are using.

Thanks!

 

[Ttw]

Second longer ride today including the steepest hilll I know.
Went without issue still couldnt go full throttle even on that hill. My bushings are too loose ill get harder ones this week to see If i can go faster
I made about 5km went from 20v to just above 19v so after rough estimation i think i can do at leat 15km on one charge.
Controller was very slightly warm even after going up and down (lot of braking) that hill.
I find the braking a bit too hard at high speed and not very effective at slow speed (better that than the opposite )
That can probably be tuned with Bruno.

Ill try to do a good video tomorrow if weather is nice.

 

[sk8norcal]

^I though u said you were running 10s ?

 

[Ttw]

yes but I have 2 times 5S
I meant 21v each

Also according to the iphone app i use my max speed is 35kph so far but im not sure how accurate that is.
I dont think i went more that 2/3 of throttle, and that was uphill.
BTW do someone know a good app to track speed and map it ? I use mapmyrun for now.

 

[brunotollot]

Hi Bruno, I have one quick question.

What are the specs on those motors? can't seem to find the details on the motors that you are using.

Thanks!

Hi.
3000 watt brushless outrunner, 170kv, 80Amp, 63x75, 10mm shaft, 780g.
2000 watt brushless outrunner, 270kv, 65Amp, 50x65, 8mm shaft, 380g.

Bruno, I will try to open the engine and check for any issues inside. The problem is when I only connect the cables the 14 awg extension (about 5 feet) gets so hot in 2-3 seconds that the end connections get fried.

I ordered the 10 AWG cable from HK and after 2 weeks I am still waiting. I decided to use the 14 awg till I get the 10 awg. I knew that this might happen so I was constantly checking the wire, esc and the engine and all were cold and working just fine. Each ride was about 5 miles every single time with speed @ 12-15 miles avg. I used it for about 2-3 weeks this way and no issues till yesterday.

Now when I only connect the cables it sparks and makes a boiling noise. The 14 awg cable gets so hot in 2-3 seconds that you can't even touch them. I tried to start the engine just to see what is going to happen in these 2-3 seconds and I hear a weird grinding noise similar to when you break and the engine just shakes for a sec and the noise increases. I don't know if this helps to better describe the issue but when the engine if off i can move it easily and there are no restrictions.The ESC and engine does not get hot.

I hope someone could explain the cause/solution of the problem.

Thank you!

Hi, without have the motor and controller is a guess, but probably can be the motor wire, a short circuit or the controller components "nearly dead" for the overload.

To few my customer happens to buy ESC from ............. for some EV project. They are work the first day for few minutes before going too hot. Then next day, at the first throttle we just see a fireball....

Regards

 

[Silenthunter]

Hi Bruno,

I connected the engine to a friend RC car with 4s battery and 80A ESC and the engine works just fine. I could not test the ESC but it smells like it got burn a little, so I guess the ESC is damaged.

What are the specs of the ESC you are selling and how much $$$ it cost?

In my case the engine and the ESC would never get worm and it worked for 2-3 weeks with 5 miles range each time with no problems. It happened on last Saturday when I changed the wheels form 70mm to 80mm. I never saw a fireball or anything like that. I would get some sparks when I would connect the extension from the board to the battery till Saturday when the cables would get super hot in 2-3 seconds.

Do you thing a stronger ESC with changing the gearing from 20 teeth (front engine cog) and 30 teeth (wheel cog) to 17t and 30t would help?

Is the ESC reparable? Should I go for 180A-200A ESC?

Thank you,
Vitali

 

[mwkeefer]

Hello Bruno,

I've tried a few ways to ask, but this seems to work best for now...

With regard to these motors:

3000 watt brushless outrunner, 170kv, 80Amp, 63x75, 10mm shaft, 780g.
2000 watt brushless outrunner, 270kv, 65Amp, 50x65, 8mm shaft, 380g.

Could you provide prices?

Also which ESC would I want to pair with single and dual versions of longboards powered by those motors and what would their price be?

Finally I know it was mentioned that your selling sets or matched motor/controllers, what do you currently have available for use with these long board kits and what are their prices?

Personally I'm in the USA but I'm sure everyone would love to know a rough idea of availability, price and shipping costs.

Thanks in advance for your assistance !

Regards,
Mike

 

[matriax1]

yes but I have 2 times 5S
I meant 21v each

Also according to the iphone app i use my max speed is 35kph so far but im not sure how accurate that is.
I dont think i went more that 2/3 of throttle, and that was uphill.
BTW do someone know a good app to track speed and map it ? I use mapmyrun for now.

I use Speedometer. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/speedometer/id286577228?mt=8
It's really clean and organized and gives you all the info you would want for speed while longboarding. Top and average speed are on the bottom left. Current speed is the largest and in the center. It has almost no lag so it can catch those big spikes in speed after a slope. I also checked it with a bus and car and it kept up very well. I only use this one since it's not too fancy or cluttered like everything else. You can also change from mph to kph.

Ttw, could you give me a link or the specs for your battery? I plan on using my board for a lot of transportation so distance is very important to me.