Building my first battery and charging system for an amplifier...how dangerous is this?

crowned

10 µW
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Mar 7, 2016
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Hi all, I am building a battery-powered guitar amp for busking.


It will be a wooden box with a 6" speaker.

The electrical system will be like this:


1686149558426.png
On the the outside connected to a female plug socket on the inside with a 15V 1amp, 220V charger plugged into it.

1686149900392.png
1686149955060.png

I will cut the charger wires and solder them to an 4S BMS with balancer which will charge four unprotected 18650 batteries.

1686150000873.png

The BMS output will be connected to the amplifier board, which will be connected to the speaker.

1686150106193.png
Is that reasonable to construct and store inside my house? Can I leave it charging overnight? Thanks !
 
A lot depends on the charger. If the charger has the right output voltage, it should be perfectly fine to leave it going overnight. The BMS acts as a fail-safe if any cell gets out of range, but the charger needs to limit the voltage to something less than 16.8v.
 
Hi all, I am building a battery-powered guitar amp for busking.

It will be a wooden box with a 6" speaker.

The electrical system will be like this:

On the the outside connected to a female plug socket on the inside with a 15V 1amp, 220V charger plugged into it.

View attachment 334993
View attachment 334994

I will cut the charger wires and solder them to an 4S BMS with balancer which will charge four unprotected 18650 batteries.

The BMS output will be connected to the amplifier board, which will be connected to the speaker.


Is that reasonable to construct and store inside my house? Can I leave it charging overnight? Thanks !

More details are needed to answer those questions.

What is that charger? Is it just an AC adapter with a specific voltage output and current capability rating, or is it actual CC-CV battery charger designed as a charger?

What is that "socket" above the ac adapter/charger picture? (not the IEC socket in the first picture in your post, just the one I left in the quote above).

What cells are you using, and how are they connected?

Links to info pages for each item you are using will help us help you determine if they are compatible and safe to use together.
 
More details are needed to answer those questions.

What is that charger? Is it just an AC adapter with a specific voltage output and current capability rating, or is it actual CC-CV battery charger designed as a charger?

What is that "socket" above the ac adapter/charger picture? (not the IEC socket in the first picture in your post, just the one I left in the quote above).

What cells are you using, and how are they connected?

Links to info pages for each item you are using will help us help you determine if they are compatible and safe to use together.
Thank you !! The socket is just a standard european 220v wall socket design that anything in europe could plug into.

The charger is my biggest question mark actually. I don't have a link to it, but it's something like below. I found a 15v power supply in an electronics shop, but I think it's probably more a power supply / AC adapter, this is the first i've heard of a CC-CV charger. Do you have any suggestions for a charger that could take 220V (ideally 110 too, but not critical), and output 16.8V to the BMS ?


BMS: https://mauser.pt/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=096-9029

Batteries (x4): Samsung INR18650-35E 3400mAh - 8A - 18650 - Li-ion - Rechargeable batteries | NKON

Thanks !
 
Is that reasonable to construct and store inside my house? Can I leave it charging overnight? Thanks ! :unsure:


Hi there. It seems a class D amp maybe 50W or 100W
maybe U need 24V supply to get max output from it. check amp module specifications to know max input voltage.

two solutitions:
#1 solution: build a 24V cell array (24V/4.2V equals 5,7S --> battery array 5S)
5S max voltage out will be 5 multiplied by 4.2V equals 21V (this factor is limiting max amplifier output power..)

#2 solution: build a battery pack, tha most standard possible for lower cost components. example 3S battery pack
add a dc/dc step-up converter module, set to constant 24V output and connect to amp.
This way amp is allways able to play max output power!

The more loud audio, tha better!! LOUD bass, guitar and drums!

PS: make sure speaker rms power is higher than amp max rms output. to avoid burning tha speaker at max power out..
example for a 100W rms amp, a 120W rms speaker will be on tha safe side for handling that amp power
&
use speaker with extra magnet, for more efficiency and magnetic shield protection. (if no magnetic shield on a speaker, It could ruin any laptop hdd data)
 
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Thanks ! Here is the stuff I will use:

The Amp:

The speaker:

A possible step up module:

The BMS:

The Charger:
Still looking.

Honestly, I am hoping that 4S * 3.7V = 14.8V is enough to power the 96dB speaker. I don't know if a step-up performs well when powering an amp. Fingers crossed.

Any advice much appreciated. thanks.
 
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Honestly, I am hoping that 4S * 3.7V = 14.8V is enough to power the 96dB speaker. I don't know if a step-up performs well when powering an amp. Fingers crossed.

yes, it will power tha speaker but at reduced power..
check amp details

--Output Power vs Input voltage:
12V 8Ω- 10W x 2 / 12W-15W x 2 (@ 4ohm)
21V 8Ω- 30W x 2 / 4Ω- 50W x 2
24V 8Ω- 35W x 2 / 4Ω- 60W x 2

speaker is 8ohm impedance, 120W rms & max peak 250w
soo when powering amp with a 12V battery , it will only output 10W rms per 8ohm speaker.. (u're usin 14.8V soo power could increase to maybe 15W rms @ 8ohm speaker) U're putting only 15W for a 120W speaker..

if U power amplifier with 24V, it will output 35W @ 8ohm speaker or 60W rms at a 4ohm speaker

U need a step upp dc/dc converter able to supply at leat 5A@24V (means a 100W or more stepup/boost converter. add extra capacitor at output, electrolytic 4700uF 25V or 35V rated or a low IR gold/audio capacitor 1000uF 25V or 35V )
 
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You shouldn't use just an AC adapter to charge the batteries unless it is a CC-CV type (like a lithium charger or an LED PSU), so that it limits current to the batteries below the max charge rate they can accept by lowering it's voltage automatically. This one on aliexpress
says it is one that can do up to 2A charge rate. Your linked cell doesn't show charge rate specs on the page, but this page
says it's 0.6C, which for a 3.4Ah cell would be 2A, so it should work. There are probably lots of this type of charger out there, so you can look for the best quality one / most reliable one that fits your usage and needs and budget. Since a charger failure can cause a battery fire, it's good to have one you can count on. ;)



I would not use a DC-DC converter between battery and amp. First it will introduce noise to some degree into the amp (the battery will not). It might not be much noise, but it can be pretty annoying with cheap poorly filtered DC-DCs (same thing with wall-wart AC adapters). Next it must be sized to handle the *worst case* power surge the amp will ever draw under any circumstances, or it could be damaged by the amp (this part isn't likely to be a problem for low power, but high power could be). Third it will waste power you could have used to make sound, and capacity you could have used to play longer.

You can instead use the space it would have taken up to put more cells in the battery, and get either more voltage or more capacity/more current-capability for less voltage sag under load (more watts to your speaker).

If 24v is the amp's actual max voltage, the most cells you can series is 5s Li-Ion for a max full charge of 4.2v x 5 = 21v. Average voltage will then be about 18v.

A DC-DC will only output what it's rated to, regardless of the input voltage. If you exceed the input voltage range in it's specs, it will just damage the DC-DC.


The speaker linked is 5.3ohm, so it should work with the amp linked (specs below). Not much bass response; what instrument will you be playing? Heavy, would guess your cabinet/amp is going to be 10lbs+ by the time you've got everything in the box.

Based on the amp info, it doesn't say it supports bridging a single speaker across both channels for more power, so you can only use half the power of the amp; at 12v nominal (4s LiFePO4) that's only 15W @4ohm (it'll be a little higher with the higher voltage of a 4s Li-Ion pack, but a little lower because of the higher speaker impedance; my guess is still around 15W). In it's specs, it also has "reception distance" listed, but I don't know what it means as it doesn't indicate any wireless functions.

A mono output amp, or one that can be bridged, would be better for your purpose. This randomly found example
is up to 100W (I'm sure you'd need a big heatsink to the outside of the cabinet for the amp chip to do that much), and runs off 12-32v, so you can use a higher voltage pack on it (up to 7s) for more Wh too. It is AC input at the terminals, but if you solder the battery input to the +/- terminals of the rectifier (or the big capacitors) it works on DC, too--and you could even wire it with a switch to disconnect the battery and connect the AC input so you can run it with an external AC transformer in places that allow that, saving the battery for later. I'm sure there's others out there that are DC-only; I didn't look.

(aliexpress alone has thousands of different amplifiers; I recently went looking so I can change a crappy amp in a little old computer speaker that's going inside a 5v-only project, and replace a blown amp in a decent speaker bar, and add bluetooth reception to my music studio's speakers, etc).



To get 15W at the 14v or so nominal of 4s of the cells you list, it'll only take about an amp of current on average. The cells can do 8A at 1p, so no problem there. Assuming 3Ah usable capacity, a 4s1p pack would probably last about three hours of busking at that rate. You can also calculate capacity needed with Wh: 3Ah x 14v = 42Wh, at 15W constant usage it'd be just under 3 hours, but you will probably not use that much power constantly so it could last longer.

If you use a 5s1p pack you'd get a few more Wh and a higher power output from the amp, if you use the higher power a lot it will probably not last any longer but more people will hear you. :)



The OKYSTAR BMS would probably work, but is likely overkill for your amp's current needs. You can probably get away with a 10A or less unit, even a 5A if anyone makes one would probably work.

I think I was going to type some more info but JellyBean the Perfectly Normal Schmoo required bellyrubs so I had to wait till she started a nap to continue.
JellyBean the Perfectly Normal Schmoo.jpg

Specification:
Item Type: Digital Amplifier Board
Material: PCB
Operating Voltage Range: DC12-24V
Reception Distance: > 8m/26.2ft
Version: 4.2
Sound Source Input Sensitivity: 600-800mV
Frequency Range: 20Hz-20KHz
Speaker Impedance: 4-8Ω
Output Power:
Power 12V 8Ω Speakers> 10W x 2, 12V 4Ω> 15W x 2
21V 8Ω> 30W x 2, 21V 4Ω= 50W x 2
24V 8Ω> 35W x 2, 24V 4Ω> 60W x 2


Samsung INR18650-35E 3400mAh - 8A​

EAN / GTIN9009316342928
Weight - g49
BrandSamsung
ModelINR18650-35E
Size18650
Battery chemistryLi-ion
BatteryRechargeable
Voltage3.6V
Min. capacity - mAh3,350.00
Typ. capacity - mAh3,400.00
Battery versionFlat top
Discharge current - A8.00
Circuit protectionUnprotected
Height - mm65.00
Diameter - mm18.30
 
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