Bypass “Power On” button on QS-S4

Joined
Dec 10, 2023
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3
Location
Västernorrland
Hi,
New to the forum and this is my first post.

Is there a way for me to bypass the power on button and have my electric scooters display/throttle power up when I turn the key? The button needs to be held for 2-3 seconds, and therefore I know it’s not a regular on off switch, more likely some kind of high/low signal..?

I have an Apollo Ghost 21, modified with cheap alarm that powers on the scooter with a remote control, connected via the ignition/voltmeter. The rest of the alarm functions are not in use, hence the lack of wheel lock function (which is the main function, imo).
 
There's usually a "lock" (ignition, KSI, keyswitch, etc) wire carrying battery voltage back from the display to controller, and a B+ from controller to display. Connecting those usually turns on the controller by providing power to the internal LVPS that makes 5v/12v/etc. So you can disconnect the lock wire (but not the B+) from the display on the controller side and connect it to the B+ and the controller will then be on anytime B+ is supplied to it.

BUT: you will still have to turn the display on forthe display to do anything, including having it be at anything ohter than powerup default settings (in case the display is one that stores settings in itself that are sent to the controller at powerup). If you're into basic electronics a little bit, you can build a 555 one-shot circuit to push the button for you as soon as B+ is available, but it will still take the same amount of time for the display to turn on from that point.
 
There's usually a "lock" (ignition, KSI, keyswitch, etc) wire carrying battery voltage back from the display to controller, and a B+ from controller to display. Connecting those usually turns on the controller by providing power to the internal LVPS that makes 5v/12v/etc. So you can disconnect the lock wire (but not the B+) from the display on the controller side and connect it to the B+ and the controller will then be on anytime B+ is supplied to it.

BUT: you will still have to turn the display on forthe display to do anything, including having it be at anything ohter than powerup default settings (in case the display is one that stores settings in itself that are sent to the controller at powerup). If you're into basic electronics a little bit, you can build a 555 one-shot circuit to push the button for you as soon as B+ is available, but it will still take the same amount of time for the display to turn on from that point.

Thank you very much for the detailed answer, much appreciated.

That makes a bit of sense to me, it’s definitely nothing I’ve read about, and I’ve really tried finding any info about the qs-s4 and how it works. I know that some alarm modules have the function to turn on the e-bike/scooter.. but I don’t know how that works either. My alarm has all the functions, but I don’t even have a diagram for it, I’ve managed to connect it with remote help over Facebook messenger.

Anyways, I read up on what you mentioned about the 555 one shot (never heard of that before) and it sounds like a great idea, and I think I can definitely manage to pull it off, I’m new to electronics but eager to learn stuff, especially about modding my scooter.

Just to clarify if I’ve understood correctly; when I turn the key/press the remote, it send voltage through the wires, and after certain amount of time it triggers the display?

If that’s the case it got me thinking, some of my RF receiver has a function called “delayed mode” and it turns on the device X amount of seconds, could that be something I could implement? Or the usage of a RF receiver in any type of way: Imagine I push the the button on my remote, and it powers up the scooter, at the same time my buck converter turns on, from the buck I connect a RF remote which then automatically triggers a receiver that turns on…?
 
That makes a bit of sense to me, it’s definitely nothing I’ve read about, and I’ve really tried finding any info about the qs-s4 and how it works.
I don't know anything about that specific one, but whenever there's a display with buttons that turns on a controller, it pretty much always works the way I described, with the display MCU turning on some tiny little transistor inside the display that passes B+ to the lock wire that then powers up the controller's LVPS. If yours is different, I'd be surprised, but you'll find out when you start measuring things in the wiring between them. :)

There are systems where the whole thing is already powered on whenever it gets battery voltage, and turning on the display just turns on the display and communicates to the controller that this has happened, but those are not very common, usually higher-end prebuilt scooters, bikes, etc., with custom-designed systems specifically for each one.


I know that some alarm modules have the function to turn on the e-bike/scooter.. but I don’t know how that works either. My alarm has all the functions, but I don’t even have a diagram for it, I’ve managed to connect it with remote help over Facebook messenger.
It probably has a relay inside it that closes when the alarm is turned off and power is turned on, and opens when the alarm is on to disable the system. If so, you can use that relay to do this job. But without knowing which connections to make, and what voltages/currents the parts are rated for, it's a guess whether it will work at all, or how long it will work, or if anything will be damaged (in the alarm or on the scooter) by doing so.

Some things can be determined by tracing out visually and electrically inside the alarm itself, and drawing out all the circuitry you can trace to reverse-engineer it, if you feel like spending the time, but it's a lot of work. It's probably easier to find a different alarm that does have a wiring diagram and info.


Anyways, I read up on what you mentioned about the 555 one shot (never heard of that before) and it sounds like a great idea, and I think I can definitely manage to pull it off, I’m new to electronics but eager to learn stuff, especially about modding my scooter.

Allaboutelectronics and allaboutcircuits are good places to start learning generally. There's also a 555 specific site with lots of stuff: 555 Timer Circuits and a site you can use to "test" different component choices Visual 555 Timer Calculator


Just to clarify if I’ve understood correctly; when I turn the key/press the remote, it send voltage through the wires, and after certain amount of time it triggers the display?
What exactly the key/remote does, you'd have to find out either experimentally or from it's instructions and datasheet, etc.

What you *need* it to do when you activate the unit is to (use a relay/etc to) connect B+ of the controller to whatever wire on the controller (lock, ksi, keyswitch, ignition, etc) accepts B+ to turn it on (assuming that's how your controller works, which you'll need to verify first).

To *also* turn on the display, you would have to add a device (555, transistor with RC circuit, etc) that when the system is activated holds the power button circuit closed for just the right amount of time to do this, then opens the circuit again. Easiest to do if this device is powered from the same wire the controller is activated from.

Alternately, you can simply use the device (555 etc) to turn the display on, and the display will turn the controller on. Depends on whether you need the display or not (or want it).

How exactly the device needs to close the power switch depends on the way the switch is wired into the system. Without knowing that, the easiest way is if the device uses a relay to close it, since it won't matter how it's wired--it just closes the relay contacts wired across the switch, so that the display sees the switch as closed (button pressed). It's likely the switch just grounds a pullup resistor on a signal to the MCU, in which case the actual 555 output pin itself could be used directly wired to that signal trace. In that case, one side of the switch will be ground, and the other some voltage between zero and 5v, whenever the system is powered on.



If that’s the case it got me thinking, some of my RF receiver has a function called “delayed mode” and it turns on the device X amount of seconds, could that be something I could implement? Or the usage of a RF receiver in any type of way: Imagine I push the the button on my remote, and it powers up the scooter, at the same time my buck converter turns on, from the buck I connect a RF remote which then automatically triggers a receiver that turns on…?
Well, you don't need to *add* a delay. The delay mentioned is already in your system, by however long it takes the display to power up. Ideally you'd not have any delay but you're stuck with that one. ;)

If you *want* to add a delay, using a(nother) RF xcvr setup (in addition to your remote) just to create one is a pretty complicated way of doing it. I'm sure something simpler could be done if you need it.
 
I don't know anything about that specific one, but whenever there's a display with buttons that turns on a controller, it pretty much always works the way I described, with the display MCU turning on some tiny little transistor inside the display that passes B+ to the lock wire that then powers up the controller's LVPS. If yours is different, I'd be surprised, but you'll find out when you start measuring things in the wiring between them. :)

There are systems where the whole thing is already powered on whenever it gets battery voltage, and turning on the display just turns on the display and communicates to the controller that this has happened, but those are not very common, usually higher-end prebuilt scooters, bikes, etc., with custom-designed systems specifically for each one.



It probably has a relay inside it that closes when the alarm is turned off and power is turned on, and opens when the alarm is on to disable the system. If so, you can use that relay to do this job. But without knowing which connections to make, and what voltages/currents the parts are rated for, it's a guess whether it will work at all, or how long it will work, or if anything will be damaged (in the alarm or on the scooter) by doing so.

Some things can be determined by tracing out visually and electrically inside the alarm itself, and drawing out all the circuitry you can trace to reverse-engineer it, if you feel like spending the time, but it's a lot of work. It's probably easier to find a different alarm that does have a wiring diagram and info.




Allaboutelectronics and allaboutcircuits are good places to start learning generally. There's also a 555 specific site with lots of stuff: 555 Timer Circuits and a site you can use to "test" different component choices Visual 555 Timer Calculator



What exactly the key/remote does, you'd have to find out either experimentally or from it's instructions and datasheet, etc.

What you *need* it to do when you activate the unit is to (use a relay/etc to) connect B+ of the controller to whatever wire on the controller (lock, ksi, keyswitch, ignition, etc) accepts B+ to turn it on (assuming that's how your controller works, which you'll need to verify first).

To *also* turn on the display, you would have to add a device (555, transistor with RC circuit, etc) that when the system is activated holds the power button circuit closed for just the right amount of time to do this, then opens the circuit again. Easiest to do if this device is powered from the same wire the controller is activated from.

Alternately, you can simply use the device (555 etc) to turn the display on, and the display will turn the controller on. Depends on whether you need the display or not (or want it).

How exactly the device needs to close the power switch depends on the way the switch is wired into the system. Without knowing that, the easiest way is if the device uses a relay to close it, since it won't matter how it's wired--it just closes the relay contacts wired across the switch, so that the display sees the switch as closed (button pressed). It's likely the switch just grounds a pullup resistor on a signal to the MCU, in which case the actual 555 output pin itself could be used directly wired to that signal trace. In that case, one side of the switch will be ground, and the other some voltage between zero and 5v, whenever the system is powered on.




Well, you don't need to *add* a delay. The delay mentioned is already in your system, by however long it takes the display to power up. Ideally you'd not have any delay but you're stuck with that one. ;)

If you *want* to add a delay, using a(nother) RF xcvr setup (in addition to your remote) just to create one is a pretty complicated way of doing it. I'm sure something simpler could be done if you need it.


Thank you very much once again for replying with such detail and knowhow.
You’ve given me plenty information on how to move on and what to expect. Mostly curious to whether or not it was doable and in reach of my skills.
It sure does sound like a challenge, but the result would be awesome to see, and I actually wanted to to this modification first of all on my scoot, until I realized it wasn’t just a simple switch.

I actually saw on YouTube a man doing some repair on his push button, and he measured system voltage, so that’s what I’ll expect.
The alarm handles 58V now, with no problem. I have it connected via the key/voltmeter, so if I can use one of those outputs for the display it would be awesome. Otherwise I have this remote controlled switch which handles up to 70VDC, but I’ll have to admit that the 555 solution sounds much more interesting and something I want to learn about more.

Still winter here and I have been working on my scooter since September, doing, undoing and improving so much stuff, and kind of sick of it 😄 Was planning on doing this display modification maybe next winter, but I got curious so it might happen sooner. I’ll keep researching and post back if I have follow up questions or if I’ve made any progress.
 
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