Custom firmware / increase watts on TSDZ2B?

[Dixonk]

Hi there,
Looking to build a ebike for fun on a budget so I found a seller that sells TSDZ2B relatively cheap, is there a way to install custom firmware into this motor and should I pick VLDC5 8pin or 850C no brake or VLCD6 no brake?
And secondly is there a way to increase wattage on these motors?
Hopefully someone knows so I can make the right decision i tried google but theres heap of information to dig through so im here in hopes of help!

Thanks!

 

[marvin78]

New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Hi, I was made aware of a new offering over at BMSBattery today: "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor". https://bmsbattery.com/home/803-sdz2-torque-sensor-central-motor.html Seems like a an attractive alternative to the Bafang BBS, $50 cheaper, with torque sensor, better installation guide etc...

endless-sphere.com

Sorry. this doesn't help much more as google as it's rather.. lengthy.

emmebrusa - Overview has OSF for the stock displays ( and 860c, 850 was dropped due to lack on contrast? ).


Picking a no throttle option will make it a bit more work to install a temperature sensor down the line.

 

[Dixonk]

Thanks for the reply, this seller doesnt offer the 860c display just VLDC5,850 and VLDC6 so the 850 isnt supported. Would you know the difference between these two VLDC as in which is better?

So to flash firmware you have to buy a stlink v2, I found on amazon so is there any particular one or any works?

And wasnt really clear if increasing the wattage from 500 to more was possible, is it? Ive heard bafang 500w doing 1400watt so something similar would be cool!

Bafang looks to be better but alot more expensive where im from so really only tsdz2b viable

 

[marvin78]

All your questions are answered in the thread I linked

I went with xh18 but I regret it, should have gone with vlcd6 even if I am afraid that big thing will break on first 'accident'. Why would I still wish I had chosen it? Because xh18 doesn't have the access to settings like vlcd6 has. I can't calibrate torque sensor for instance.

Increasing power is also handled better in that thread as I could summarize just as the cooling requirements to go with it.

If you would really want the 850 I'm sure there is probably a build still available for it ( will just no be the latest I guess ). But since you say you're on a budget, the 'stock' displays are a lot cheaper.

 

[Dixonk]

Haha, I understand. I was actually hoping not having to read through the whole thread, I would assume that would take abit more time Lazy.. guilty
Edit: reading 400 pages is a huge time investment, alot of reading for a few questions

Vldc6 is better than vldc5? I dont really care for which display it is, unless one specific is needed for adjusting settings or similar. If that makes sense?

Ill read the thread once I get kids to bed!
Thanks for replies!

 

[marvin78]

I think vlcd5 has the same functionality as xh18, but I'm not 100% sure. I'm 100% sure vlcd6 would have allowed me access to torque sensor information and calibration settings for instance.

I agree on the 400 pages, I actually was considering trying to write a consolidation post to summarize all the great posts there. I have so many indexed in bookmarks in my browser but I keep forgetting some and I'd be nice to just have a single overview.

The wiki is pretty good though -> FAQ

Though wiki has nothing on bearings, and you wouldn't know from the bottom paragraph there actually is a OSF for the stock displays currently ( would be nice if it were updated to link to the repository ).

 

[Dixonk]

I think vlcd5 has the same functionality as xh18, but I'm not 100% sure. I'm 100% sure vlcd6 would have allowed me access to torque sensor information and calibration settings for instance.

I agree on the 400 pages, I actually was considering trying to write a consolidation post to summarize all the great posts there. I have so many indexed in bookmarks in my browser but I keep forgetting some and I'd be nice to just have a single overview.

The wiki is pretty good though -> FAQ

Though wiki has nothing on bearings, and you wouldn't know from the bottom paragraph there actually is a OSF for the stock displays currently ( would be nice if it were updated to link to the repository ).

So taking information from this post out of the displays I can choose from the VLDC6 is the best bet then.
Yeah 400 pages is a tad too much for me, I'll try to google abit more as my questions are pretty straightforward i think. Just something I need to know before spending 250 on a motor.
Have a few hills around my area while I think 500watt would be enough it wouldn't be fun

 

[marvin78]

You got gears.. you're going to get up. Thing is, if those are long hills I have read from others that installing the cooling kit is a must even on stock firmware ( in fact, stock firmware get's hotter, damages the engine faster ).

Mine came in today, good stuff. The top plate I might have gotten locally machined easily, but the insert feels like very solid, very nice!

Don't forget to take into account your BB size, especially the longer extended one's had a tendency of breaking.

 

[amberwolf]

There are bearing mods (see Elinx's posts for those) to reduce the stress on the parts and delay or prevent the BB shaft breakage problem.

 

[Elinx]

I went with xh18 but I regret it, should have gone with vlcd6 even if I am afraid that big thing will break on first 'accident'. Why would I still wish I had chosen it? Because xh18 doesn't have the access to settings like vlcd6 has. I can't calibrate torque sensor for instance.
...

You can calibrate torque with all stock display's, but not with the same convenience.
With Vlcd5 you can do it with hidden settings but also with Level1 E04
With XH18 with Level1 E04
With Vlcd6 with Level1 E04 and lots of patience, because of the button delay of 2seconds for each push.

 

[Elinx]

....
And secondly is there a way to increase wattage on these motors?
...

If you want to increase Wattage, take the 48V version of Tsdz2(b) and start playing with OSF javaconfigurator to know what is possible before flashing.
Latest OSF you find here. The support thread there

Insert heatconductive material inside the airgaps, best is aluminium, but siliconpads are easier. (see also this video)
If you do the heatmods at maximum, a temperaturesensor isn't needed anymore.
If you want to add a temperature sensor, buy an 8pin throttle version of the Tsdz2 for easy assembling.
The temperature sensor comes in place of the throttle.
If you want to use the throttle, only possiblity is measuring with a seperated temperaturemeter.

The bearingmod which @amberwolf mentioned, you can find here

 

[marvin78]

You can calibrate torque with all stock display's, but not with the same convenience.
With Vlcd5 you can do it with hidden settings but also with Level1 E04
With XH18 with Level1 E04
With Vlcd6 with Level1 E04 and lots of patience, because of the button delay of 2seconds for each push.

I can not access any settings other then 6km/h on/off speed limit wheel size and a couple more.

edit: stupid link, it's in the documentation on the repository

I did indeed find what you refer to, but this is OSF and I am still waiting on my speed sensor cable so still running stock firmware. I think... I never actually seen this manual for xh18 before so I never tried.. but what are the chances pspower would sell me something with osf without telling me

Edit: sadly...

 

[Elinx]

.... what are the chances pspower would sell me something with osf without telling me

Non !

The stock settings are very limited. There is no hidden menu.
OSF settings you can find in the display manual, which also being downloaded with OSF

 

[Elinx]

.... I am still waiting on my speed sensor cable so still running stock firmware.

I now see you want to use a speedsensor cable, but that is not possible, because not all pins are connected.
You can use the small cable delivered with the ST v2link, by isolating the sockets with heatshrink and connect these directly to the motor instead of the speedsensor plug.

 

[marvin78]

I now see you want to use a speedsensor cable, but that is not possible, because not all pins are connected.
You can use the small cable delivered with the ST v2link, by isolating the sockets with heatshrink and connect these directly to the motor instead of the speedsensor plug.

I thought speedsensor extension cable ( sorry for leaving that detail out ) had all pins connected, since besides the speed sensor it's also meant to extent the wiring of the optional lights?

I'm not that comfortable with soldering wires directly on the pin's, I'd rather avoid that. But I'm not spending 40 bucks on a cable when the programmer and cable themselves are a meager fraction of that price

 

[Elinx]

I thought speedsensor extension cable ( sorry for leaving that detail out ) had all pins connected, since besides the speed sensor it's also meant to extent the wiring of the optional lights?

I'm not that comfortable with soldering wires directly on the pin's, I'd rather avoid that. But I'm not spending 40 bucks on a cable when the programmer and cable themselves are a meager fraction of that price

imho only 4 wires are connected.
If you use the STv2link cable you don't have to solder
Remove the plastic caps, add shrink tube and go

 

[marvin78]

I have six wires

Feeling quite low energy today, don't think I'll get anything done but I think the only thing lacking is energy ( as in I do have the correct stuff ).

I didn't understand what you meant, but you mean using heatshrink as outer cable and just push those over the pin's in the connector. That does sound like it should work, but I still would rather solder a proper cable which I can reuse a lot without fiddling each time.

I still only have xh18, even while osf does add functionality I foresee lots of time's changing things and trying them and switching between them. Don't want to fiddle each time, rather have a cable ready to just plug in.

 

[Elinx]

I have six wires ...

....you mean using heatshrink as outer cable and just push those over the pin's in the connector. That does sound like it should work, but I still would rather solder a proper cable which I can reuse a lot without fiddling each time.
....

Ofcourse it is your choice. Imho it is more work to solder a connector.

From the 6 wires you need only to connect 3 of them to the tsdz2.
(V, gnd and Swim).
The other wires you can connect on STv2 side to gnd.

 

[marvin78]

I know I can always get the stock firmware but I'd rather not risk bricking the thing because I lost a connection mid way through a flash.

Bit sad atm that I was stewpid and choose the no throttle option controller, so if I want to install the temperature probe I will need to clean of a lot of gunk from the controller pcb. That's just a little extra work not that bad, but that goop afaik is designed not only for protection of the smc's but also for heat transfer. Guess I would like to restore that heat transfer aspect of the goo, just fill it back in with silicone resin I would imagine.

 

[docw009]

If you want to increase wattage, pay the extra $170USD and install a Bafang BBS02B. You still have to buy a Bafang programming cable, because the current BBS02B PAS settings need some tweaking in my opinion. I've done two BBS02B's.

I installed a TSDZ2B (original version not the"B" version) last Fall. I've done a few hub motor bikes with throttle, and the BBS02's. All those bikes go 18-25A. The TSDZ2B is around 14A. By comparison, it's pretty weak. It felt even weaker with stock firmware because the torque sensor expects higher pedal pressure. After 8 years of ebiking I was not used to that. Top speed with throttle or pedal assist was 18 mph on a steel 27" 10 speed.

With the embrusa/OSF firmware installed, I'm happier. I did skim thru all 400 pages too. I believe all OSF does is program more assist at lower torque pressures, but that works for me. I can now pedal it up to 22 mph. More than enough, as I ride it at 12-14 mph. Still set at 14A, as I don't want heat issues. I think it's good for a low power, light weight bike.

If you want high power, just buy a bigger motor.

 

[marvin78]

If you want to increase wattage, pay the extra $170USD and install a Bafang BBS02B. You still have to buy a Bafang programming cable, because the current BBS02B PAS settings need some tweaking in my opinion. I've done two BBS02B's.

I installed a TSDZ2B (original version not the"B" version) last Fall. I've done a few hub motor bikes with throttle, and the BBS02's. All those bikes go 18-25A. The TSDZ2B is around 14A. By comparison, it's pretty weak. It felt even weaker with stock firmware because the torque sensor expects higher pedal pressure. After 8 years of ebiking I was not used to that. Top speed with throttle or pedal assist was 18 mph on a steel 27" 10 speed.

With the embrusa/OSF firmware installed, I'm happier. I did skim thru all 400 pages too. I believe all OSF does is program more assist at lower torque pressures, but that works for me. I can now pedal it up to 22 mph. More than enough, as I ride it at 12-14 mph. Still set at 14A, as I don't want heat issues. I think it's good for a low power, light weight bike.

If you want high power, just buy a bigger motor.

Controller goes up to 18A I seen in some posts, might help a bit... but from your text I summarize you didn't do the required cooling mod? Also, unlike a BBS02 this has torque assist, which is why I specifically chose it and many others to because it's the cheapest motor with a decent torque sensor. 18Ah x 48v = 864W .. controller accepts up to 14s so you can easily break 1kW

Did you calibrate your torque sensors?

It's a lot of hit and miss apparently. I think I'm on the luckier side. I can ride ~29mph and that is with the stock firmware and a lot of tail wind... without tailwind or downhill I can go ~24 and with some uphill or headwind it's 21mph. That's on a Giant Talon 27.5 with a 44t chain ring and an 11-46 cassette. On stock firmware. But it get's quite hot, OSF will actually lower temperature ( which it can only do by lowering power draw as heat is just residual energy ). I think it does this not by lowering your constant power but by increasing ramp up time ( which will also help with reduce wear on the gears etc ).

Ofc bbs02 will churn out 1400W. But it doesn't have a torque sensor, it's heavier and more expensive. And not all new Bafangs seem to be shipped with controllers which still accept custom firmware, I think.. not 100% since I didn't consider one. There are a few Tongsheng 'clones' of higher quality but also higher price, I expect after all mods have been applied and I find a nice tune which suits my riding style I will be very happy with this setup. Even more, it's at a price where eventually it might be cheaper to just have spare's to go to right away while I fix the broken one.

Thing is, I don't think riding mtb trails with a cadence based motor is the way to enjoy the ride. If you want to ghost pedal and go fast, I understand why someone would want a Bafang. Might also be a lot of fun to ride on a trail, but for me I would feel I'd rather just have an electric pitbike at that point. And if you want to ride a pitbike, you're not riding the same trails.