Cyclone 1200W commuter build

JEB said:
I think that the most important part of the problem is the grease that is used to keep a film between the teeth from being compressed out from torque/pressure.

There was a site posted by someone on the internet that tested lubes by using a split nut/screw, compression gauge in ft. lbs, clamped in a vise. Most films that were tested did not make one turn without seizure. The only one that made it through with more than 1000+ rotations was Krytox based.

Years ago Dow Chem. was selling a Moly lube (powder or paste?) that they said by adding it to a gear box would reduce the amount of power required was reduced by 20 % under the same load.

Saying all that it would be best to not use a grease, unless it flows back to were it is needed, (gear box gets hot?) or a high pressure synthetic type gear oil would be better?
Click to expand...

That Dow stuff sounds interesting. I replaced the stock lube with this stuff and the gears lasted half as long. Go figure, maybe Headline already has some kind of super lube in there.
 
alswiseowl said:
doesnt cyclone offer any type of warranty on there products?ive checked there site but could only find warranty on the batterys..
also how long have you owned the kit for...

also maybe the 1000watt motor may be the way to go.no gearbox...
anyways best of luck...
Click to expand...

paco was very responsive with sending me a replacement gearbox the first time for the price of shipping from TW, though I haven't emailed him since this one's gone south. I may pay for this second replacement rather than go the warranty route since the failure could be my fault. If I'm lucky he will simply send new gears for me which I will promptly have hardened.

The 1KW motor is fine, but it's bigger in every dimension and the 7t sprocket is reportedly quite loud, partially due to the low tooth count, partially due to relatively high rpms. If you could hook it up to some kind of secondary reduction (e.g. matt drive) or go belt drive then it would probably be pretty good, but at that point you're probably better off going with an RC motor + ESC (or ebike controller w/ sensored Astro, if Bob ever delivers any).
 
im thinking of the 900watt cyclone kit,its rated for 36v,but paco from cyclone says it will handle 48v no problems,on the stock kit controller,also kentlim another dedicated cyclone customer has owned the 360watt,500watt,650watt,1000watt and now he uses the 900watt kit,he rekons its best,especially running on 48v.
so now knowing the 900watt kit is overvoltable..im leaning more towards it,rather than the 1200watt

also how much in total would a r.c set up cost,including matts gearbox..
thanks
 
Lurking around on ES I wonder if there is an update on this topic, I ordered this Cyclone kit a week ago ( 650 watt 24 volt version ) and I'm now worried reading this thread that the gears won't last me as long as I want them to last.... :?

Maybe it's just that the 1200 watt version is somewhat too strong for the internal gearing, these Cyclone motors are from Headline Electric Co and on the website I only see the 24 volt version 360 watt motor, so maybe Cyclone is overestimating these 4 X for the power hungry e- bikers, the trade off is that the gearing won't last long / heavy abuse.
From what I read here on ES ( excellent forum BTW ) these motors can handle, if proper cooled 1200 watt, the internal gearing is just ahummm so-so, not to mention the freewheel that failed on just about everybody.....

Some good gear oil to make things more fluid but still a little sticky sounds like a good idea to me but I don't have any clue what brand or type to use, maybe somebody can point me in the right direction.

Last thing, can someone comfort me by saying I did do the right thing to buy this kit, I would sleep a whole lot better. ( I already do... :wink: )
 
glv said:
If I'm lucky he will simply send new gears for me which I will promptly have hardened.
Click to expand...

I did this with some gears from a 1/8th scale off road racing buggy, actually had two sets done, first a brand new set never used, installed them ran the buggy, not so good, alot of vibration...Second set we ran in the buggy for a few hours before getting them hardened, lasted the life of the buggy. Were ripping though a set every few race meetings before hardening them. So i would suggest following this route if you get the next set hardened, use them first til the bed in and then get them hardened :)

KiM
 
Maybe it's just that the 1200 watt version is somewhat too strong for the internal gearing, these Cyclone motors are from Headline Electric Co and on the website I only see the 24 volt version 360 watt motor, so maybe Cyclone is overestimating these 4 X for the power hungry e- bikers, the trade off is that the gearing won't last long / heavy abuse.
Click to expand...

I think that is likely the case. Like you say, Headline doesn't rate this motor/gearbox combo anywhere near what Cyclone is advertising it at. Some of my full-throttle starts were pulling around 3KW which is a bit more than 360W :) You should be fine with your setup, even all-out, I imagine. The only problem you might encounter is the motor hitting the temp cutoff if you're pushing it hard for a few miles. The motor heatsinks help a bit, but this isn't critical. If I had more time/determination it would be kinda fun to wrap some copper tubing around the motor casing to do some water cooling.

With the weather getting warmer in the frozen Minnesota tundra I am just remembering that this thing is sitting in the garage, and it's probably time to get it running again. With both Miles and AussieJester advocating hardening the gears I guess I gotta try it. If/when I get to it I'll report back here.
 
I thought it would be a good time look at my motor. I have never taken apart this motor. It has over 2000 miles on it and still running strong. The grease looks like it’s doing its job. I’m tempted to just close it up again and leave it be. The grease is quite black though but very sticky stuff and was difficult to wash off my hands. I have some high temp automotive bearing grease I can use but perhaps it’s best to leave it alone since I don’t see much wear? Pics posted.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6348&p=250050#p250050
 
Got my Cyclone set today, and curious as I am, I opened it right up, sort of had to take the gearbox bolts off because it won't fit my KMX trike in a regular / normal way, so a soft tap with a plastic hammer and the whole thing came apart. ( fast forwarding here )

There was enough grease in it for sure, kind of antracite coloured very sticky stuff, like super thick chainsaw oil and when rubbed between the fingers it turns silvery gray, just like coaldust, probably beaucoup carbon in it which is good against wear and tear.
So I'm confident enough to just close it up tomorrow without any changes like extra oil/ grease, hardening metal or what like, it will probably be good for many happy miles.

As GLV suggested pulling about 4 horses on those little gears is probably overkill for them, my 3 legged horse motor ( 650 watt ) will suit the gears much better. yeeeah-hhhaahh.

Can't wait to put it all together and do some E-whining ( Cyclone gears :wink: ) though the streets of my otherwise quiet and sleepy Belgium village.:twisted:
 
kfong said:
I thought it would be a good time look at my motor. I have never taken apart this motor. It has over 2000 miles on it and still running strong. The grease looks like it’s doing its job. I’m tempted to just close it up again and leave it be. The grease is quite black though but very sticky stuff and was difficult to wash off my hands. I have some high temp automotive bearing grease I can use but perhaps it’s best to leave it alone since I don’t see much wear? Pics posted.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6348&p=250050#p250050
Click to expand...


If you're not noticing any weird vibrations and you have that many miles on it then I say leave it be. That looks like my gearbox when it was brand new. The gear lube didn't seem to make it any better in my case and you end up having to seal lots of little holes you didn't know were there :)
 
Yeah, that was my conclusion as well. I ended up just putting back together. If it lasted this long, it should be fine for a while. I do ride with it in low gear most of the time since I do a lot of trail riding. This would be easier on the gearbox.
 
glv said:
With both Miles and AussieJester advocating hardening the gears I guess I gotta try it. If/when I get to it I'll report back here.
Click to expand...

Remember to use them first before getting them hardened, i am guessing the gears aren't the best precision cut jobs? if they
have any imperfection/high/low spots etc when new if you harden them like this they will remain that way after hardening, they wont 'wear in' like the softer stock gears would will cause tight/vibrating/less efficient gearbox. Put a~50-100km on a set THEN get them hardened would be the best option IMO...Miles? would you agree this would be the best option rather than hardening a unused new set?

KiM
 
Yes, I think that's sound, Kim. I seem to remember that you can get special abrasive powders which might help speed things up - they break down finer and finer. I'll see if I can find out more about this. Also, taking note of the orientation, before you take them apart, is probably a good idea..

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
 
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