DH dual motor = LR mid drive + Grin all-axle front hub
- Thread starter John Bozi
- Start date
John Bozi
100 kW
drew12345 said:
Would have been cool to run a standard 135mm, especially being a hub motor dood, you (me) always got lots of wheels in that size....
got me thinking actually I havent tried or checked if there is a way to adapt...
EDIT 11/4
https://www.dtswiss.com/Resources/Support/HUBS/DT-Swiss-Hubs-350-Technical-Manual
Attachments
John Bozi
100 kW
Endless-spending.com
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/161100338740
$160au truing stand. It's about time I bought one, hopefully strong enough for my hub motor too. Will need it for the new hub soon.
also bought a new minion and
decided to throw another $100 at the nukeproof with new hubbody with STEEL rachets (not sure but the original one looks different and got some pawls...... will be running the bike 1000w less so thought should try one more timmmmmeeeee.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/nukeproof-generator-freehub-body/rp-prod25865
Last ride
[youtube]aG26xKATC0w[/youtube]
EDIT
so the 350 hub arrived! wow much quicker than I thought. too early to be able to true... ah well.
I am very happy that the dtswiss diagram above is wrong. it was the closest I could find to my produce but the pcd as I measure it is exactly the same as my failed mavic at about 58mm. Meaning I can reused the spokes and rim as is.... yay!
Now to study the spoke arrangement, I have never spoked a bicycle wheel (just hub motors) don't know the tech... must research...
EDIT 20/4
Was panicking seeing how many tools the swiss requires but just watched this video and thankgod it looks dam easy...
[youtube]g8ZQJS0IQM0[/youtube]
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/161100338740
$160au truing stand. It's about time I bought one, hopefully strong enough for my hub motor too. Will need it for the new hub soon.
also bought a new minion and
decided to throw another $100 at the nukeproof with new hubbody with STEEL rachets (not sure but the original one looks different and got some pawls...... will be running the bike 1000w less so thought should try one more timmmmmeeeee.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/nukeproof-generator-freehub-body/rp-prod25865
Last ride
[youtube]aG26xKATC0w[/youtube]
EDIT
so the 350 hub arrived! wow much quicker than I thought. too early to be able to true... ah well.
I am very happy that the dtswiss diagram above is wrong. it was the closest I could find to my produce but the pcd as I measure it is exactly the same as my failed mavic at about 58mm. Meaning I can reused the spokes and rim as is.... yay!
Now to study the spoke arrangement, I have never spoked a bicycle wheel (just hub motors) don't know the tech... must research...
EDIT 20/4
Was panicking seeing how many tools the swiss requires but just watched this video and thankgod it looks dam easy...
[youtube]g8ZQJS0IQM0[/youtube]
John Bozi
100 kW
350 wheel is complete. I am to be honest a bit worried about how much tension by hand is ok / too much.
[youtube]3Mr95_6mjuw[/youtube]
Since we have a big off road race coming up I will need more AH and I have decided to give up on the parallel first series second thing, because it becomes too complex for each time I want up or down my ah / weight.
Had to break open the box to get some plugs out. I didn't think I'd have to ever do this unless changing to new batteries....
[youtube]ju_h4Nfso-k[/youtube]
[youtube]3Mr95_6mjuw[/youtube]
Since we have a big off road race coming up I will need more AH and I have decided to give up on the parallel first series second thing, because it becomes too complex for each time I want up or down my ah / weight.
Had to break open the box to get some plugs out. I didn't think I'd have to ever do this unless changing to new batteries....
[youtube]ju_h4Nfso-k[/youtube]
John Bozi
100 kW
[youtube]K_jgDQ93a98[/youtube]
John Bozi
100 kW
mmm getting confused about my "up"grade with the first few test rides.
Apart from the obvious pleasure of an increase on speed on flat sections:
1. I get wild shutters over 3kw. Rolling on throttle must be always careful as it really kicks hard on the swing arm and can feel a jolt / twist there. Might have to switch middle switch point for what I used to do the same at 20s.
2. Tried running the steep parts at slowest setting on 3 way switch which felt very nice and controllable however the controller was overheating. This I did with no limiting and it only pulled up 33a.
3. Tried running around the streets on just 20 amps and the power kicks in perfectly. It is very smooth. However when the hills get steeper the controller growls louder.
Lots more tests needed to work this out. It is hard change the switch on rough terrain moving fast. It is hard to say have a long fast bit followed by a steep turn with ruts and long again. Switching the button constantly for that to avoid the shutters is going to take lots of getting used to.
I wish I hadn't swapped controllers, but I refuse to go back unless I blow the fets or caps on this one. Just too much work to redo lengths etc for both bikes a hundredth time.
On other notes was ecstatic to open up my 84v charger twist the corner pot 3 half turns ccw and get my new cut off voltage at 90v.
EDIT shifted all the ca parameters as far as possible from doing anything and so far looks like it all works better just open.
[youtube]LW8YpiJnywM[/youtube]
Controller overheating seems more a problem the slower I go.
Apart from the obvious pleasure of an increase on speed on flat sections:
1. I get wild shutters over 3kw. Rolling on throttle must be always careful as it really kicks hard on the swing arm and can feel a jolt / twist there. Might have to switch middle switch point for what I used to do the same at 20s.
2. Tried running the steep parts at slowest setting on 3 way switch which felt very nice and controllable however the controller was overheating. This I did with no limiting and it only pulled up 33a.
3. Tried running around the streets on just 20 amps and the power kicks in perfectly. It is very smooth. However when the hills get steeper the controller growls louder.
Lots more tests needed to work this out. It is hard change the switch on rough terrain moving fast. It is hard to say have a long fast bit followed by a steep turn with ruts and long again. Switching the button constantly for that to avoid the shutters is going to take lots of getting used to.
I wish I hadn't swapped controllers, but I refuse to go back unless I blow the fets or caps on this one. Just too much work to redo lengths etc for both bikes a hundredth time.
On other notes was ecstatic to open up my 84v charger twist the corner pot 3 half turns ccw and get my new cut off voltage at 90v.
EDIT shifted all the ca parameters as far as possible from doing anything and so far looks like it all works better just open.
[youtube]LW8YpiJnywM[/youtube]
Controller overheating seems more a problem the slower I go.
John Bozi
100 kW
[youtube]LYo_VM5mypM[/youtube]
race day is in a week, this is the full course.
race day is in a week, this is the full course.
John Bozi
100 kW
[youtube]TR-smnVQqF8[/youtube]
nutnspecial
10 MW
Dam nice terrain, riding, and vid coverage bro! That's a helluva track, I'm guessing between 5 and 6 mi.
Makes me wanna just get out to the wilderness. Huge benefit goes to the mid for hill climbing, trail blazing, and exploration aspects. What hubs and power where the other two using?
Makes me wanna just get out to the wilderness. Huge benefit goes to the mid for hill climbing, trail blazing, and exploration aspects. What hubs and power where the other two using?
John Bozi
100 kW
raptor was like 10kw, custom clyte about 6kw.
they could go faster but also overheat double me.
they could go faster but also overheat double me.
nutnspecial
10 MW
Yep, and you prob know firsthand the comparison in general riding aspects when you have that 20+ lb motor unsprung in the wheel too. Hubs are great, but they're def not for my prefered offroad riding either.
John Bozi
100 kW
Just blew a lot of money primarily to take my bike and family out to new terrain. So if nothing fails on the bike in the next month I am predicting lots more videos taken outside my usual riding area reach.
I hated getting my bike into the car so much it was about time for a new vehicle.
The citroen berlingo that I ordered ticked most the boxes I was chasing. Should fit two bikes comfortably and use very little fuel being diesel.
CAn't wait....
I hated getting my bike into the car so much it was about time for a new vehicle.
The citroen berlingo that I ordered ticked most the boxes I was chasing. Should fit two bikes comfortably and use very little fuel being diesel.
CAn't wait....
John Bozi
100 kW
Have had a handfull of great rides and fails in recent times.
All related to tensioner and bicycle drive train in particular.
Have tried temporary solutions too.
Currently Im on 24t to 20t which is dam slow and just a push up modded tensioner.
Have ordered a spider to take 4 hole bcd at back and 40t front because too small is slapping my chain stays.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ISO-disc-mount-to-104-BCD-adapter-suit-E-bike-project-power-take-off-alternator-/252415728742
also some jitsi cranks to get the new wi set up running....
All related to tensioner and bicycle drive train in particular.
Have tried temporary solutions too.
Currently Im on 24t to 20t which is dam slow and just a push up modded tensioner.
Have ordered a spider to take 4 hole bcd at back and 40t front because too small is slapping my chain stays.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ISO-disc-mount-to-104-BCD-adapter-suit-E-bike-project-power-take-off-alternator-/252415728742
also some jitsi cranks to get the new wi set up running....
briangv99
1 kW
John Bozi said:
hey John, are you changing to left hand side drive with ISO BCD adapter? or adapting the adapter to the freehub side?
John Bozi
100 kW
it will adapt to what I have running already the 6 iso adapters from fouriers. (but yeah possibilites on disc brake for other projects - problem is rear brake - I thought about a rear hub motor for regen, but what happens if theres a power cut?)
I just wish we could source the red bits only.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FOURIERS-Fix-Gear-Single-Speed-Cog-fix-on-Bike-Hub-Disc-16-17-18-19T-adaptor-/281969796780
EDIT
Will be trying these cheap $24 au chainrings at back first, although I don't have great confidence in alu. I might go to stainless steel once I get my gearing choice sorted.
I just wish we could source the red bits only.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FOURIERS-Fix-Gear-Single-Speed-Cog-fix-on-Bike-Hub-Disc-16-17-18-19T-adaptor-/281969796780
EDIT
Will be trying these cheap $24 au chainrings at back first, although I don't have great confidence in alu. I might go to stainless steel once I get my gearing choice sorted.
John Bozi
100 kW
After getting knocked off the bike by a kangaroo and then changing over to the WI fw and new cranks and then getting thrown off the bike by chain wrap around the crank I custom made this guard. Love the pattern the chain made when it threw me.
nutnspecial
10 MW
Like lighting or those paintings that guy does with like 100kv 8)
Did you get that new 'cargo' ride? It looks sweet and I'm envious of many models you can get different down there. Always wanted a diesel 'hilux'.
Did you get that new 'cargo' ride? It looks sweet and I'm envious of many models you can get different down there. Always wanted a diesel 'hilux'.
John Bozi
100 kW
Yes I bought the car but haven't used it for a ride for 2 weeks with all the ebike building....
This is the last ride day two weeks ago.
[youtube]BytOlzMwF1s[/youtube]
[youtube]mZCA0jfPZCs[/youtube]
[youtube]6EAraXx1BYo[/youtube]
[youtube]9sd6-FVVvBA[/youtube]
[youtube]02WmJAJZu54[/youtube]
[youtube]rztqKrMjLpI[/youtube]
[youtube]XMd5vbhSv7o[/youtube]
[youtube]-9La0f9H1dU[/youtube]
[youtube]yOYNdlrRHqg[/youtube]
[youtube]KYFzWpbv454[/youtube]
[youtube]4MosPcFPNKo[/youtube]
This is the last ride day two weeks ago.
[youtube]BytOlzMwF1s[/youtube]
[youtube]mZCA0jfPZCs[/youtube]
[youtube]6EAraXx1BYo[/youtube]
[youtube]9sd6-FVVvBA[/youtube]
[youtube]02WmJAJZu54[/youtube]
[youtube]rztqKrMjLpI[/youtube]
[youtube]XMd5vbhSv7o[/youtube]
[youtube]-9La0f9H1dU[/youtube]
[youtube]yOYNdlrRHqg[/youtube]
[youtube]KYFzWpbv454[/youtube]
[youtube]4MosPcFPNKo[/youtube]
John Bozi
100 kW
thanks drew.
upper link broke recently and just got it repaired
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154265872214845&set=oa.911538792248523&type=3&theater
I have very little faith in the future of the power through all these pivots.
upper link broke recently and just got it repaired
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154265872214845&set=oa.911538792248523&type=3&theater
I have very little faith in the future of the power through all these pivots.
John Bozi
100 kW
Heavy nuts and bolts. Will have to find some titanium if the whole thing works like this.
While I am going up from 14t (I think) 219 to 18t on motor, and 11t to 13t on js speeding up and waiting for the parts from the states I am in the process of doing the slow down at the other end.
hopefully not too slow.... if so it will be back to just doing extreme climbing again.
While I am going up from 14t (I think) 219 to 18t on motor, and 11t to 13t on js speeding up and waiting for the parts from the states I am in the process of doing the slow down at the other end.
hopefully not too slow.... if so it will be back to just doing extreme climbing again.
John Bozi
100 kW
Am trialling an extra guard at the moment, need to respace this one, but you get the idea.
John Bozi
100 kW
new cake delivery service
John Bozi
100 kW
2016 was mostly about the big block which had no heating issues but a drive system that was breaking down every few rides.
2017 will see a new rounding of testing for this intense bike.
I look forward to the front hub motor because I have never ridden one. http://www.ebikes.ca/grin-all-axle-hub.html
I will see how it goes together with the mid drive. If it holds up a few options include, removing the mid drive for a rear hub motor. (I am pretty sick of repairing and blowing cash on the drive train) The other option if I don't like it on this bike is to put it on my carbon hard tail for on road riding.
As a dual motor approach on the intense, there are various thoughts before getting the motor.
+
extra powered traction - a complete new riding style for climbing
reduced strain on drive train - this works in two ways. One is the front is taking some of the load and the other is gearing the bike to much slower takes less power through the system
2 speed system - hub rolling out to a top speed, rear set to about 30kmh
-
cost
weight - unsprung and carrying it
and things in the white wash - efficiency is down since hub motors waste more, but the mid drive would be geared to a lower speed so using less. regen capable should return some too but that usually gets balanced by drag. More braking power also is balanced by more weight. Manouvreablity harder to steer yet possibly can manouvre through with extra traction. will the added weight help or hinder on rough climbing of steep where the front wants to lift....
All in all, I have pretty low hopes that this will be better overall, but in a nutshell, I want to try 2wd as apposed to just 2 motor rear drive as on my other bike. There are things you have to try for yourself.
Correct me if I am wrong, I might be the first person to have run this on a bicycle, and nobody has run lightning rods big block as hard as I have and still opted for an additional motor
A final note is, I would have never got a front motor because I don't see mtb suspension forks as capable of one, I am hoping that Justin's all-axle will be a different story and I won't break my neck or smash my skull and teeth.
2017 will see a new rounding of testing for this intense bike.
I look forward to the front hub motor because I have never ridden one. http://www.ebikes.ca/grin-all-axle-hub.html
I will see how it goes together with the mid drive. If it holds up a few options include, removing the mid drive for a rear hub motor. (I am pretty sick of repairing and blowing cash on the drive train) The other option if I don't like it on this bike is to put it on my carbon hard tail for on road riding.
As a dual motor approach on the intense, there are various thoughts before getting the motor.
+
extra powered traction - a complete new riding style for climbing
reduced strain on drive train - this works in two ways. One is the front is taking some of the load and the other is gearing the bike to much slower takes less power through the system
2 speed system - hub rolling out to a top speed, rear set to about 30kmh
-
cost
weight - unsprung and carrying it
and things in the white wash - efficiency is down since hub motors waste more, but the mid drive would be geared to a lower speed so using less. regen capable should return some too but that usually gets balanced by drag. More braking power also is balanced by more weight. Manouvreablity harder to steer yet possibly can manouvre through with extra traction. will the added weight help or hinder on rough climbing of steep where the front wants to lift....
All in all, I have pretty low hopes that this will be better overall, but in a nutshell, I want to try 2wd as apposed to just 2 motor rear drive as on my other bike. There are things you have to try for yourself.
Correct me if I am wrong, I might be the first person to have run this on a bicycle, and nobody has run lightning rods big block as hard as I have and still opted for an additional motor
A final note is, I would have never got a front motor because I don't see mtb suspension forks as capable of one, I am hoping that Justin's all-axle will be a different story and I won't break my neck or smash my skull and teeth.
Marin
1 kW
John that front motor will be good for when the mid breaks something and you need to get home, one of the extras you get with a front motor is your front wheel spinning out, take care man,
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