DIY BAFANG builds with torque sensor? based on 2024 workbook

C

clix

100 µW
Joined
Mar 21, 2023
Messages
8
Location
EU
Hey guys,

I was just checking bafang workbook for 2024.
https://bafang-e.com/Uploaded/Labels/202308100327283621.pdf

There are few things that I noticed:

1701559619270.png

Does anybody know anything about this M435 and M635 motors? Do they really have torque sensor?
It could be a more robust alternative to TSDZ2 (mine runs fine after 1.5years and 4000km, knocks on wood)

And also:

1701559920541.png

If thease sensors actually have torque sensing, that would mean that rear hub motors with torque sensing are possible?
Does anybody have any experiense with these?
 
clix said:
If thease sensors actually have torque sensing, that would mean that rear hub motors with torque sensing are possible
Click to expand...
That's been possible for more than a decade already, with the various BB torque sensors like TDCM, Thun, etc., and chain torque sensors like BEAMTS, though most generic controllers don't have an input for this, you can always use the Cycle Analyst v3 from ebikes.ca to read the sensor and generate a throttle signal for them.

More recently the Erider BB sensors have been more common, and others like Sempu, NCTE, etc.

Some info:

PAS Options - Getting Started

Most ebikes these days offer some form of automated pedal control (PAS = Pedal Assist System), where the motor is powered in response to you pedaling the cranks and not just from a throttle on the handlebar. Here we summarize both the Cadence based and Torque based PAS sensors available for all...
ebikes.ca ebikes.ca
 
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They have been out there for a little bit, high voltage did a video on the m635 but key things are its canbus 🤢 and requires their "smile" batteries 🤮.
 
amberwolf said:
That's been possible for more than a decade already, with the various BB torque sensors like TDCM, Thun, etc., and chain torque sensors like BEAMTS, though most generic controllers don't have an input for this, you can always use the Cycle Analyst v3 from ebikes.ca to read the sensor and generate a throttle signal for them.

More recently the Erider BB sensors have been more common, and others like Sempu, NCTE, etc.

Some info:

PAS Options - Getting Started

Most ebikes these days offer some form of automated pedal control (PAS = Pedal Assist System), where the motor is powered in response to you pedaling the cranks and not just from a throttle on the handlebar. Here we summarize both the Cadence based and Torque based PAS sensors available for all...
ebikes.ca ebikes.ca
Click to expand...
I was not aware of this, tnx.

Bengy22 said:
They have been out there for a little bit, high voltage did a video on the m635 but key things are its canbus 🤢 and requires their "smile" batteries 🤮.
Click to expand...

Interesting.
But, do these motors really need bafang smile battery? The integrated M series motors from bafang (I own M820) also have CAN bus interface, but they are happy to work with other batteries as well.
It would be a bit unusual, to say the least, that integrated bafang motors (M510, M560, M820,..) that also have CAN bus can use any battery, but the "aftermarket" ones like M635 and M435 can't.
 
clix said:
I was not aware of this, tnx.



Interesting.
But, do these motors really need bafang smile battery? The integrated M series motors from bafang (I own M820) also have CAN bus interface, but they are happy to work with other batteries as well.
It would be a bit unusual, to say the least, that integrated bafang motors (M510, M560, M820,..) that also have CAN bus can use any battery, but the "aftermarket" ones like M635 and M435 can't.
Click to expand...
While I agree with what you are saying I couldn't find anything that could confirm it would be the same, just a few different people mentioning it had to use their smile battery. "JohnnyNerdOut" on youtube had mentioned he can't use any battery with his m625, but has also stated he should be receiving a m635 for testing in December so soon. I know it doesn't matter to most but the m635's torque sensor is canbus also so aftermarket controllers cannot take advantage of it
 
clix said:
I was not aware of this, tnx.



Interesting.
But, do these motors really need bafang smile battery? The integrated M series motors from bafang (I own M820) also have CAN bus interface, but they are happy to work with other batteries as well.
It would be a bit unusual, to say the least, that integrated bafang motors (M510, M560, M820,..) that also have CAN bus can use any battery, but the "aftermarket" ones like M635 and M435 can't.
Click to expand...
JohnnyNerdOut just did a livestream today and did confirm it would turn on and the throttle worked with a normal battery so its looking good so far, hopefully he will do a test with it mounted on a bike so we can see how the torque sensor feels
 
Atak_Snajpera said:
What is the point of buying this motor instead of ToSeven DM01?
Click to expand...
Well the dm-01 is still a very new motor, very few display options, I know the torque sensing feels still needs a lot of work. The M635 is basically just a m625 or rather just a bbshd, but with a torque sensor and canbus. Bafang has gotten pretty good at getting the torque sensor feel down in there integrated motor lineup so hopefully this motor will follow those. I like the ToSeven motors a lot, but to me they are still very clearly in the early days and could use a lot more time before being ready for mass market adoption. Bafang should have this motor dialed in from the get go
 
I have the TO7, just interested in pricing on this one. There are advantages to the TO7 but it’s early days using it for me
 
is m635 so new that no one tested it yet ? i was pretty sure this motor was out year ago
 
Bengy22 said:
Well the dm-01 is still a very new motor, very few display options, I know the torque sensing feels still needs a lot of work. The M635 is basically just a m625 or rather just a bbshd, but with a torque sensor and canbus. Bafang has gotten pretty good at getting the torque sensor feel down in there integrated motor lineup so hopefully this motor will follow those. I like the ToSeven motors a lot, but to me they are still very clearly in the early days and could use a lot more time before being ready for mass market adoption. Bafang should have this motor dialed in from the get go
Click to expand...
JohnnyNerdout confirmed that DM-01 is going to be produced with cooling fins soon but Alexfnoble on pedelecs.co.uk disapproved that.
According to joeows6537 YouTube user on JohnnyNerdout Bafang M635 unboxing video Toseven motor stators have tighter press fit housings than Bafang resulting in better cooling
 
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Bengy22 said:
You might be thinking of the M625, the M635 came out earlier this year
Click to expand...
ah... they no longer have m625 in catalogs so it's a new motor? the 635 is a replacement I guess . but m625 was only cadence sensor and 635 is torque sensor and m625 was CANBUS battery and 635 works with any battery ... ? to good to be true ?
 
It is a pity, but nothing (yet) about a M235 (?), the 250W version with torque sensor as a legal EU alternative for Tsdz2.
 
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Is the general read they are reluctant to move to avoid cannibalising OEM sales? Or just prioritising the latter? Seems odd they put it off so long until competitors came along. Honestly the reliability and track record of the bafangs would make them the go to with a torque sensor
 
rheo said:
where / when can i buy the m635?
Click to expand...
There's a supplier on Alibaba if you want one right now, I know JohnnyNerdOut in the USA has spoken on his livestream that his shop should have them in two weeks, not sure if they ship to Australia though
 
Interesting... finally a torque sensor from Bafang. I am tempted. Unfortunately the AliBaba listing does not show the specs. I would guess that the one offered is for standard 68/73mm threaded BBs, but it doesn't say. And the minimum order is 2, whilst I only need one.

Bengy22 said:
There's a supplier on Alibaba if you want one right now, I know JohnnyNerdOut in the USA has spoken on his livestream that his shop should have them in two weeks, not sure if they ship to Australia though
Click to expand...
 
raylo32 said:
Interesting... finally a torque sensor from Bafang. I am tempted. Unfortunately the AliBaba listing does not show the specs. I would guess that the one offered is for standard 68/73mm threaded BBs, but it doesn't say. And the minimum order is 2, whilst I only need one.
Click to expand...
At the top of this thread the spec's were posted, looks like a m625 but with torque sensor, and the m625 was basically just a bbshd with CAN. For anyone interested here's the livestream where the motor was bench tested, skip to 33:45 minutes in :

As for alibaba you might be able to contact and order a "sample" consisting of one motor kit, but personally I would just wait for JohnnyNerdOut to get their stock in M635 Bafang Mid Drive- torque sensing | Johnny Nerd Out
 
So, I guess there is only the 1 standard 68/73mm BB size, at least for now?

Bengy22 said:
At the top of this thread the spec's were posted, looks like a m625 but with torque sensor, and the m625 was basically just a bbshd with CAN. For anyone interested here's the livestream where the motor was bench tested, skip to 33:45 minutes in :

As for alibaba you might be able to contact and order a "sample" consisting of one motor kit, but personally I would just wait for JohnnyNerdOut to get their stock in M635 Bafang Mid Drive- torque sensing | Johnny Nerd Out
Click to expand...
 
I watched the video where it seemed to work with a standard battery on the bench test but I have not seen one on a bike in motion like that. I'd love to see a real world riding test. But no programming ability? So, we'd be stuck with whatever firmware that comes with it forever? Unless someone comes up with a programmer that can connect via canbus? Bt even that might not be possible if they have it all locked down.

Janez_kocjan said:
Should i order? 😄 motor is not canbus limited with battery... You can use any battery 💪💪. But proggraming via cable is not supported 😐
View attachment 345748
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