E-Bike Racing: 2011 World Challenge

[Thud]

Hehe, this is what I was talking about, I love all the therotical back & forth & Arlo's confidence. (I know Arlo has a 12kw Colasus too!) I only hope I can aford the trip out west twice next year.

ARLO- are you game for a trip to the death race next spring?

I am not writing any set up off as competition. I know the hub drives are "mature technology" not to be taken lightly.
As far as re-gen, I don't spend enough time on the brakes to realize any benifit from it....my front wheel does the speed reduction...the rear brake gets more use keeping the bike settled in the corners.

Regarding anyone getting hurt, no one wants to see that happen. This is a "fun run" but As the great Danny Magoo said....if you don't fall once in awhile....your not going fast enough. Add that guys like Luke, Arlo, dogman & myself really don't start having fun on any riding toy untill we get to the last 5% of the vehicles performance range.

I will still bet on dogman to win, Luke is going to break down, Arlo & I will tangle somewhere on the track & take each other out...the rest of the crew will be lapping happily along leaving the race to whoever wants it the most.

I am curious to see sone of the silent builds going on, I suspect there are a few going on that are planning for world domination withsome mind-blowing inovation.

EDIT: (john posted while writing this) Crashing is a part of motorcycle racing. So it is important to have as much protective gear as is available & have a plan if the worst happens. Normally in that situation its "tuck your chin in" "dont stick out an arm to break your fall, & cross your ankles & wrists if your tumbling.....hope you dont get stopped suddenly by a fence or imovable object. I am a walking moto cliche' regarging broken bones & such...ironicly only 1 of the "injury sets" happend while in actual competition (& was due to mechaical failure not rider error)All the rest have been training injuries.

 

[Arlo1]

60%. We've only seen that I can handle those corners slow so far. To be really fast, I'll be drifting through the corners and that is something I haven't practiced in years.

sh.

I have practiced through the back streats on my bmx and I don't drif at all I have had the tires quite hot and run right to the edge and not broke loose remeber this is a paved kart track!
And if drifting was something to be needed well.... I grew up in alberta and road my bmx on the ice all the time just for fun! Raced cars on lakes ect!

 

[Arlo1]

Hey Arlo, LFP, and other experienced racers, here's a couple of questions for you:

For those without regen braking, will bike disc rotors hold up for this kind of racing, because it seems like they'll get pushed many times beyond what they'd ever see in their designed use? Should we really be looking at dual rotors on the front?

Body armor, we see motorcycle racers hit the ground a lot and get right up. If you have all the equipment, does falling so you don't get hurt require practice, or does riding armor keep you pretty darn safe as long as you don't tangled up with someone else?

My thereoy is with out regen I would need disks. But I think one disc on the front and one on the back is ok. Make sure you locktight the bolts and it would be a wise idea to saftey wire them cause once they get hot the bolts can loosen quite easy (steal bolt into aluminum & aluminum expands at a higher rate then steal)
You could look at over sized discs bigger diameter = better brakes. But be carefull added spining weight on the wheels lowers the horse power of the bike!
I will wear as little as possible but thats just me! There is some great light weight streat bike stuff and mx stuff that would be great! You could look at a presure suit its a top you put on with elbo pads built in and a kidney belt built in and a spine protector built in. And if you just wear it as a shirt it would not be bad.
I have broken more bones then I can remember and yes as every crash goes you tend to lern how to hit the ground so you hopefully dont get hurt.

 

[Arlo1]

Hehe, this is what I was talking about, I love all the therotical back & forth & Arlo's confidence. (I know Arlo has a 12kw Colasus too!) I only hope I can aford the trip out west twice next year.

ARLO- are you game for a trip to the death race next spring?

I am not writing any set up off as competition. I know the hub drives are "mature technology" not to be taken lightly.
As far as re-gen, I don't spend enough time on the brakes to realize any benifit from it....my front wheel does the speed reduction...the rear brake gets more use keeping the bike settled in the corners.

Regarding anyone getting hurt, no one wants to see that happen. This is a "fun run" but As the great Danny Magoo said....if you don't fall once in awhile....your not going fast enough. Add that guys like Luke, Arlo, dogman & myself really don't start having fun on any riding toy untill we get to the last 5% of the vehicles performance range.

I will still bet on dogman to win, Luke is going to break down, Arlo & I will tangle somewhere on the track & take each other out...the rest of the crew will be lapping happily along leaving the race to whoever wants it the most.
.

I would love to go to the death race once I saw it I was so stoked. As for you I dont plan to tangle with you I plan to get ahead and be gone!

 

[Tiberius]

Body armor, we see motorcycle racers hit the ground a lot and get right up. If you have all the equipment, does falling so you don't get hurt require practice, or does riding armor keep you pretty darn safe as long as you don't tangled up with someone else?

John, see my avatar.

I'm not wearing the full set because, as you say, I have to pedal assist my little commuter style baby.

Nick

 

[dogman dan]

The fast guys at the death race all had some body armor, but it was a bit warm for full leathers. Several of us had bmx pants, I found some that morning at the big swap meet cheap. They seemed to have some plastic bits and knee pads in the right places for grinding. Some had motorcycle helmets, some had bmx helmets, nearly all had elbow pads. Some wore overalls over jeans for an extra layer. All wore gloves. Nobody got hurt, but a few crashed hard enough to bend a bike.

On that track cornering super fast is still mostly under 30mph, so the crashes were survivable. I perfected my crash on snow skis, but on dirt or asphalt the same principles apply. Don't stick out arms and try to catch yourslef, try to twist land soft side down and grind the ass cheek instead of more valuable parts. Slide it out if you can, roll if you can't slide. Basicly try to not stop abruptly. The track in Tucscon is perfect for that, lots of room to get into the dirt and slide or ride it out there if you end up way outside exiting a corner. No curbs to trip on is great for the confidence compared to street riding.

Yeah, I suppose I could win if enough guys break. At the DR, it would take a lot of guys breaking down for that to happen. Hopefully the same thing would apply at the world challenge, but I still see it being hard for me to afford to get there. Tucson is easy for me so I'm likely to stick to that one. I just want to have fun. so the win is very optional for me.

 

[bradstuff]

Your all doing it wrong!!



Thought some of you might get a laugh too..

KiM

Kim, Thanks for the look at the dark side. I am new to this stuff and still learning. Safe's rules would favor a road bike with a Kepler drive. The race would be like a regular bike race except the riders would have 1400-1600 watts of leg and battery power instead of just 400-600 watts of leg power. That race is even scarier than this one. His drawings show a bicycle more suited to the 70lbs rule. Confussing

Brad

 

[bradstuff]

Ok so

#2 You have any idea how many times I will lap your ass before running out of batteries? I will have no problem peddling the last little bit to finish!

The short answer is three.

I asked for some real numbers on battery capacity and power usage. You were kind enough to share your experience and I thank you for that. I just finished rereading this entire thread. Any race is a set of rules. Everyone then builds to best take advantage of the rules. Your bike was not built for this race. It is an awesome wicked fast bike. But it will not run 12.5 miles. I am not telling you anything you do not already know and have said yourself. When you build or rebuild or modify a bike for this race it will be a contender.

The long answer is 850 wh battery/160 watts mile = dead battery at 5.3 miles. I'll give you a 54 mph average or three times the 18 mph I can pedal. That puts you 3.5 miles ahead. If the track is 1.25 miles long you have 4.24 laps to my 1.41. So you are actually just shy of the third lapping. Now that last little bit to pedal to the finish is 7.2 miles on a 70 lbs bmx bike. But I will have 10.7 miles left. At my sustained 18mph that will take just under 36 minutes. You have to do a little better than 12mph for 36 minutes to keep ahead of me till the finish. That is race I would love to do

Thanks, Brad

 

[Arlo1]

Ok so

#2 You have any idea how many times I will lap your ass before running out of batteries? I will have no problem peddling the last little bit to finish!

The short answer is three.

I asked for some real numbers on battery capacity and power usage. You were kind enough to share your experience and I thank you for that. I just finished rereading this entire thread. Any race is a set of rules. Everyone then builds to best take advantage of the rules. Your bike was not built for this race. It is an awesome wicked fast bike. But it will not run 12.5 miles. I am not telling you anything you do not already know and have said yourself. When you build or rebuild or modify a bike for this race it will be a contender.

The long answer is 850 wh battery/160 watts mile = dead battery at 5.3 miles. I'll give you a 54 mph average or three times the 18 mph I can pedal. That puts you 3.5 miles ahead. If the track is 1.25 miles long you have 4.24 laps to my 1.41. So you are actually just shy of the third lapping. Now that last little bit to pedal to the finish is 7.2 miles on a 70 lbs bmx bike. But I will have 10.7 miles left. At my sustained 18mph that will take just under 36 minutes. You have to do a little better than 12mph for 36 minutes to keep ahead of me till the finish. That is race I would love to do

Thanks, Brad

Oh dont worry like I said I just got a second bike given to me for an RC build! I will have both a RC motor and a hub motor! I will modify my current bike before even concidering bringing it dont worry :wink:

 

[dogman dan]

According to Fairracing, a death race in Tucscon in October is possible, but would happen with very little lead notification. The spring race is promoted earlier, but other runs aren't. Last year they had a run at halloween, and another in January.

Hope they do one, so I can see how far 20s, 10ah turnigys will actually go on that track.

 

[John in CR]

I just weighed my packs for the bike pictured earlier. 21lbs, and that's 12p20s of Konion VT's 1.3kwh hehehe! I've still got a few pounds of controller and mounting hardware, but this bike is going to be really close to the 70lb limit. Hell I may even cover up the duct tape and splash some paint on it to make AJ happy. 8) .

With this bike coming in right at weight, I may have to give dual hubbies a go on my other identical frame, because I'm sure they can weigh less than my nearly 30lb rear wheel assembly. I think 2wd could be a real advantage in these races.

 

[Arlo1]

You guys all know you are racing for second place right????
So..................
Luke and I got a track in for our race! We even had the owner of the track and his son ride my bmx and a motard racer ride a lap on my bmx as well as the owner put a lap on and they all loved it! He wants it there more then just once a year.
But this thread is for the international world challange so... This will be the world title.
Here is the readings from the CA with a motard racer who doesnt know how to push my bike like me made for one lap in the rain!
This is on my bike at 84 lbs and a skinner rider and full leathers with half a charge!

 

[AussieJester]

But this thread is for the international world challange so... This will be the world title.

Recognized by who other than yourself? Call it what you like i guess but it is meaningless
All your doing is racing amongst a handful of members from a small internet forum not
sure how you think this makes it an 'official' "World Title" Best of luck anywayz ...

KiM

 

[Arlo1]

But this thread is for the international world challange so... This will be the world title.

Recognized by who other than yourself? Call it what you like i guess but it is meaningless
All your doing is racing amongst a handful of members from a small internet forum not
sure how you think this makes it an 'official' "World Title" Best of luck anywayz ...

KiM

Haha Im just talking smack I want some people to come out!
Its just a for fun thing that I hope will explode!
As for the forum thing I think if you have a fast e-bike you will be on this forum!

 

[Tiberius]

Well, if everyone knows about it, there's plenty of warning, no-one is excluded for arbitrary reasons, and there isn't an existing international body who should be running it instead, then why isn't it a world championship?

Arlo, Luke, we need to talk about 2nd place. You can't both have it.

Nick

PS.Does this mean you have a site?

 

[Arlo1]

Well, if everyone knows about it, there's plenty of warning, no-one is excluded for arbitrary reasons, and there isn't an existing international body who should be running it instead, then why isn't it a world championship?

Arlo, Luke, we need to talk about 2nd place. You can't both have it.

Nick

PS.Does this mean you have a site?

Luke can't even get second place his bike is always blown up so he wont even know how to ride it if he manages to make it last! :wink:
So I guess you can try for second! Tiberius :wink: 8)

 

[dogman dan]

More than a few counting on the win, when two too fast bikes blow up motors, throw the chain, or whatever, and at least one flies off the track in a corner. Gotta finish to win. Getting there for me will still be a last minuite decision. Cool you have a track! Get lots of guys running in a run what you brung thing, to get it going and get lots of fees.

84 pounds allowed now?

 

[Thud]

Ha HA HA, I love it!
I am not going to make any pre race predictions.....I am an old guy (disarming self efasion...check) But I am definatly getting ready for the fight.....& my hand will be fully exposed after the spring death race. which I will be attentding, with every hope of being competitive. (including a morini powerd ringer if I feel I need it)
All them cool pictures of an amped up CA are great....unfortunatly, the only tool I give any credability to is a stop watch. OLD SCHOOL ALERT! (I can short out a flooded lead acid battery & make bigger #s on a CA :lol: )
Some video of some one dragin a knee around the track wouldnt hurt, this aint going to be a drag race or a left turn only affair.

 

[AussieJester]

If i am honest i think the only two we will see racing anytime soon will be Thud and Dogman at the Death Race, no offence to Luke, but i really can't see how he will get time to do it with all his other commintments he has going and he's the only one thats really expressed any interest and offered to do much that i can tell... Best of luck to Dogman and Thudster at the upcoming Death Race, hopefully you will have a few more trophies to keep your AMA State title company in the trophy cabinet Thudster :wink:

KiM

p.s LOL @ Arl01 comments about Lukes e-bike... We joked Luke had such a shit eating grin after riding J.Js bikes in Cr not because of their performance but because they were the only ones hes ridden he didnt have to push home after 200 meters hehehe...

 

[Arlo1]

Ha HA HA, I love it!
I am not going to make any pre race predictions.....I am an old guy (disarming self efasion...check) But I am definatly getting ready for the fight.....& my hand will be fully exposed after the spring death race. which I will be attentding, with every hope of being competitive. (including a morini powerd ringer if I feel I need it)
All them cool pictures of an amped up CA are great....unfortunatly, the only tool I give any credability to is a stop watch. OLD SCHOOL ALERT! (I can short out a flooded lead acid battery & make bigger #s on a CA :lol: )
Some video of some one dragin a knee around the track wouldnt hurt, this aint going to be a drag race or a left turn only affair.

Haha we have fottage. I need a video editing program that doesnt make me convert my iphone videos to another format!
And it was in the wet and these guys realy didnt know how to lean it over.....
Anyways Its all good!

 

[dogman dan]

Trying to learn to lean more, but to keep a pedal from dragging, I end up with my knee pretty far from the pavement.

I buffed the chicken stripes off my tires today though. They are starting to grab better for sure, scuffed. Can't wait for halloween, to see if I can pass any fast bikes this time with double the volts.

 

[dozentrio]

dogman, have you thought about locking cranks? You can lock them in position in any 90 degree orientation, using a switch on the handlebars and this will allow you to put all your weight on the inside pedal without it being "down." Much better cornering, I've heard. I want to try a set, just haven't gotten around to even pricing them

 

[Arlo1]

Yeh a couple months ago I went out with the soal purpos to get rid of the chicken strips and made sure I did and holy crap can you lean this thing over!

 

[dogman dan]

Never heard of the locking cranks before. Something they use on DH bikes at the ski areas? Sounds interesting. For sure, I'm standing on the outside leg in the corners.

 

[Arlo1]

I stand on the outside peddle in the corners as it is its a lower center of gravity with it moving!