E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[cheeko]

Hi Rix

What motors are in the P7 and also whats the Batttery, Im Thinking of maing another motor for my Beta '
Mxus 3K and 20S7P bit much to weight and power for off road stuff so was going to make another wheel to swap out when needed.

Cheers

 

[Rix]

Hi Rix

What motors are in the P7 and also whats the Batttery, Im Thinking of maing another motor for my Beta '
Mxus 3K and 20S7P bit much to weight and power for off road stuff so was going to make another wheel to swap out when needed.

Cheers

There is enough room for 20s 6P, then you have to make another narrower brick to get more battery into the frame. Some guys have done that here, and its been great. I am using Mac 12 on Both my P7 and a Mac 10 on my Beta. Running 13s 31ah batteries on the P7, and a 12s 30ah lipo bricks on the Beta. Allex used a Mxus 3k on one of his Beta builds, don't recall for sure though.

 

[cheeko]

Hi Rix

What motors are in the P7 and also whats the Batttery, Im Thinking of maing another motor for my Beta '
Mxus 3K and 20S7P bit much to weight and power for off road stuff so was going to make another wheel to swap out when needed.

Cheers

There is enough room for 20s 6P, then you have to make another narrower brick to get more battery into the frame. Some guys have done that here, and its been great. I am using Mac 12 on Both my P7 and a Mac 10 on my Beta. Running 13s 31ah batteries on the P7, and a 12s 30ah lipo bricks on the Beta. Allex used a Mxus 3k on one of his Beta builds, don't recall for sure though.

Thanks Rix

Yes i already have the MXUS 3k and after 2 years its probably more power then i need, I did Downgrade the battery from 24s5p to 20S7p Which fits in the Beta on its side, Just wanted to see what motors P7 have as the Mxus 3k has its issues with mounting brake caliper and also weight.

 

[CJonaBttlrckt]

Hi folks,
Does anyone know if I can switch or adjust a stealth charger, set at 58.8 volts to charge to 87.6v for a 72v battery; or is there a fundamental difference between the chargers, apart from the wiring at the at plug for the bike being different?
CD, this is for the recipient bike of your recent battery build.
hurricanecharger_sml.jpg
Thanks,
Clinton

You can only do so much with the trim pots.

Thankyou for the replies Rix and CD prior.
Cheers,
Clinton

 

[st35326]

I think I'll make an effort to take better care of this new battery. It may have to last a long time. I was reading that because of this pandemic that globalization is dead, and China isn't going to be the worlds factory any longer. It will take a number of years for local production to get going, and a lot of our resources may go into food production. Anyone that needs a new battery, this is probably a good time to get one.

For anyone reading this and thinking "oh dang, I better hurry up and get muh Chinese battery on order...." Stop. If you are reading this it's likely that your bike requires at least 72v 80 amp output battery which requires different design diligence, than say a 48v 20 amp battery. First and foremost, this is not an indictment of anyones (TV),purchase choices. Full disclosure, I made the $2,000 China battery mistake (8 months ago) and I'll never do that again. The voltage sag, uneven cell group heating and high rate of capacity loss, over time made me sick.

But here are other options....You could always build the battery yourself. You'll get a better product, it'll cost less and more importantly... you'll learn something (teach a man to fish). Regardless, I have yet to see a 72v battery out of China where corners weren't cut to include at least one of the following:

-Less than adequate serial connections for advertised max output.
-Unverified cell capacity and C rate. Fake cells are rampant and nobody at these battery mills bothers to cap test.
-Poor spot weld placement on cathode center.
-Luck of the draw "dumb" BMS systems that are un-monitorable, when there is a plethora of newer, Bluetooth options available.
-Unverified use of fake nickel stripping. Is there a cheaper testing solution that salt water?
-Inadequate sizing of main battery leads based on advertised output.

If you do not want jump in a learn a new skill (which is fine), there are plenty of good builders represented on all continents, who currently post in this thread. Litespeed, Alex and Cowardly Duck to name a few. If it were me, and I wasn't going to build one I'd try to support a local guy where I have some say in the battery build. Not to mention the customer service from Chinese suppliers pretty much ends once your credit card authorization is obtained.

 

[Rix]

Hi Rix

What motors are in the P7 and also whats the Batttery, Im Thinking of maing another motor for my Beta '
Mxus 3K and 20S7P bit much to weight and power for off road stuff so was going to make another wheel to swap out when needed.

Cheers

There is enough room for 20s 6P, then you have to make another narrower brick to get more battery into the frame. Some guys have done that here, and its been great. I am using Mac 12 on Both my P7 and a Mac 10 on my Beta. Running 13s 31ah batteries on the P7, and a 12s 30ah lipo bricks on the Beta. Allex used a Mxus 3k on one of his Beta builds, don't recall for sure though.

Thanks Rix

Yes i already have the MXUS 3k and after 2 years its probably more power then i need, I did Downgrade the battery from 24s5p to 20S7p Which fits in the Beta on its side, Just wanted to see what motors P7 have as the Mxus 3k has its issues with mounting brake caliper and also weight.

That makes sense turning 7p sideways. The folks that have made big batteries 6 P bank and then made another bank and stacked them and paralleled the banks.

 

[Theodore Voltaire]

I think you missed the point st35326, it's not about who makes a good battery, or who doesn't. All the lithium comes from chyna, and every major manufacturer of cells have factory's in china. When you remove china from the equation, prices will either to go up, or way the F up no matter were your battery comes from.

No matter where, or who you get your battery from, now is probably the best time to get one, that all I'm saying. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[cheeko]

That makes sense turning 7p sideways. The folks that have made big batteries 6 P bank and then made another bank and stacked them and paralleled the banks.
[/quote]

I even had room for Bluethooth BMS between frame. I just would hate to pull it apart for smaller motor. But I guess I could go more parallel. But never seen anyone run high v with tuned to lower amps.. it will definitely last long as it's 21AH 30Q cells

 

[Rix]

That makes sense turning 7p sideways. The folks that have made big batteries 6 P bank and then made another bank and stacked them and paralleled the banks.

I even had room for Bluethooth BMS between frame. I just would hate to pull it apart for smaller motor. But I guess I could go more parallel. But never seen anyone run high v with tuned to lower amps.. it will definitely last long as it's 21AH 30Q cells
[/quote]

You got a neat battery there. The 30Q cells do last along time. I built up an Alpha in 2015 with one of Allex's 18s7P batteries MXUS3k 4T with the Adaptto Max E. I sold it in 2017. The guy that bought it just told me its still running strong and fast.

 

[cheeko]

Yes I made mine myself. I think biggest cell difference is .003v different which is very good.. Rix if you get chance I think Nucular is new adapatto it's crazy how good it is and screen is.. there be should be released at end of year

 

[Rix]

Yes I made mine myself. I think biggest cell difference is .003v different which is very good.. Rix if you get chance I think Nucular is new adapatto it's crazy how good it is and screen is.. there be should be released at end of year

I have zero experience with the Nucular. That may change.....

 

[Cowardlyduck]

For anyone reading this and thinking "oh dang, I better hurry up and get muh Chinese battery on order...." Stop. If you are reading this it's likely that your bike requires at least 72v 80 amp output battery which requires different design diligence, than say a 48v 20 amp battery. First and foremost, this is not an indictment of anyones (TV),purchase choices. Full disclosure, I made the $2,000 China battery mistake (8 months ago) and I'll never do that again. The voltage sag, uneven cell group heating and high rate of capacity loss, over time made me sick.

But here are other options....You could always build the battery yourself. You'll get a better product, it'll cost less and more importantly... you'll learn something (teach a man to fish). Regardless, I have yet to see a 72v battery out of China where corners weren't cut to include at least one of the following:

-Less than adequate serial connections for advertised max output.
-Unverified cell capacity and C rate. Fake cells are rampant and nobody at these battery mills bothers to cap test.
-Poor spot weld placement on cathode center.
-Luck of the draw "dumb" BMS systems that are un-monitorable, when there is a plethora of newer, Bluetooth options available.
-Unverified use of fake nickel stripping. Is there a cheaper testing solution that salt water?
-Inadequate sizing of main battery leads based on advertised output.

If you do not want jump in a learn a new skill (which is fine), there are plenty of good builders represented on all continents, who currently post in this thread. Litespeed, Alex and Cowardly Duck to name a few. If it were me, and I wasn't going to build one I'd try to support a local guy where I have some say in the battery build. Not to mention the customer service from Chinese suppliers pretty much ends once your credit card authorization is obtained.

Thank you!
This is spot on and exactly why I build my own and now others packs. You basically just gave me free advertising. :lol:

For a long time I've avoided 'Battery Murdering Systems', but I've come to realise the newer bluetooth offerings mitigate the 'black box' problem of previous offerings, so I have one on order to try out with a powerwall I'm currently building for my house.

I have zero experience with the Nucular. That may change.....

Does that mean you're joining the LMX club... :wink:

Cheers

 

[john61ct]

I build my own and now others packs

How do you charge if the cells are drop-shipped to you?

 

[synics]

Why not 14p? :wink:

Hey man, I see your using the DNM moto shock, 12" right? How do you like it? What is the poundage raiting and travel? Is it not to stiff?

 

[Cowardlyduck]

How do you charge if the cells are drop-shipped to you?

Not sure what you mean...how do I charge up the pack? I use a Grin Satiator.

Or do you mean how much do I charge? It depends on the pack size/specs, layout, and extra's. Almost every pack I build is unique in some way. Check my sales thread to get an idea:https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=101045

Now we better stop discussing it in this thread or get kicked for spamming.

Cheers

 

[Rix]

For anyone reading this and thinking "oh dang, I better hurry up and get muh Chinese battery on order...." Stop. If you are reading this it's likely that your bike requires at least 72v 80 amp output battery which requires different design diligence, than say a 48v 20 amp battery. First and foremost, this is not an indictment of anyones (TV),purchase choices. Full disclosure, I made the $2,000 China battery mistake (8 months ago) and I'll never do that again. The voltage sag, uneven cell group heating and high rate of capacity loss, over time made me sick.

But here are other options....You could always build the battery yourself. You'll get a better product, it'll cost less and more importantly... you'll learn something (teach a man to fish). Regardless, I have yet to see a 72v battery out of China where corners weren't cut to include at least one of the following:

-Less than adequate serial connections for advertised max output.
-Unverified cell capacity and C rate. Fake cells are rampant and nobody at these battery mills bothers to cap test.
-Poor spot weld placement on cathode center.
-Luck of the draw "dumb" BMS systems that are un-monitorable, when there is a plethora of newer, Bluetooth options available.
-Unverified use of fake nickel stripping. Is there a cheaper testing solution that salt water?
-Inadequate sizing of main battery leads based on advertised output.

If you do not want jump in a learn a new skill (which is fine), there are plenty of good builders represented on all continents, who currently post in this thread. Litespeed, Alex and Cowardly Duck to name a few. If it were me, and I wasn't going to build one I'd try to support a local guy where I have some say in the battery build. Not to mention the customer service from Chinese suppliers pretty much ends once your credit card authorization is obtained.

Thank you!
This is spot on and exactly why I build my own and now others packs. You basically just gave me free advertising. :lol:

For a long time I've avoided 'Battery Murdering Systems', but I've come to realise the newer bluetooth offerings mitigate the 'black box' problem of previous offerings, so I have one on order to try out with a powerwall I'm currently building for my house.

I have zero experience with the Nucular. That may change.....

Does that mean you're joining the LMX club... :wink:

Cheers

Throwing the Idea around for the LMX61. Right now, I got the SurRon keeping me busy.

 

[john61ct]

Or do you mean how much do I charge?

Money, for your labor, pricing for custom packs.

Start a new thread. It's not spamming if you are asked, this is valuable stuff and fulfills a real need.

Maybe call it "Members building packs post your details here!" so it's not just about you.

 

[1abv]

For anyone who needs a pack in the states I had EMP out of Las Vegas build mine.. So far so good, Sean was great to deal with, but will keep everyone updated on how the pack goes.

 

[Emmett]

This is spot on and exactly why I build my own and now others packs.

Hi CD,

What's your latest thoughts on the LiPo battery system with the power cabling kit I bought from you in 2016?

I've been doing a lot of riding lately, and my battery pack is still working great. I've got 6 Turnigy 10000mAH 6S packs hooked up in 18S2P config for 74V powering my oil cooled H4040 with hubsinks and a Bomber controller. The whole setup rips. The battery packs usually stay within 0.03V balance, and I check each pack separately after most rides (balance leads easily access). They are so cheap to replace, but I'd like to know what I'm missing out on. I cannot fit 18S3P in the frame. But maybe next time I get some packs with higher peak Amp discharge. My H4040 has 14AWG silicone phase wires.

Over 6300W peak, and It'll run for over 90 minutes of hard riding with lots of hills and tight turns and either wide open throttle or full brakes. Most riding is in the 10 to 50km/h speed range. Battery packs nicely secured and protected in the frame box.

Congrats on your new bike btw! One day I'll post a video here of my Fighter "pig" in action. A chest cam view will probably be best.

My 2014 Fighter is still going strong. No frame problems. It cops a hiding. A credit to Stealth. The bike has the fattest 3" SR241 rear tire that fits. Shorty 140mm cranks. I just serviced the Fox shock. I've just about killed the bushes in my DNM USD8 forks so need new forks. I got internal damper settings which make the USD8 forks work really good if anyone wants. I wear out a Razorback front tyre in 200km and the rear SR241 tyre is still going nicely after 1300km. Got new rotors and pads on it. It'll destroy a set of rotors and pads and the fluid in less than 300km. The MT2 rear brake calipers are still going. I wore out the MT2 masters about 200km ago, but they worked well if I replace the fluid often.

People who say hub motors are no good offroad maybe haven't used a H4040 with a big fat tyre. As a bonus they are super quiet, which matters a lot for where I ride. Even with an old square wave controller.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Hey Emmett great to hear from you and great to hear that the wiring harness setup is still going strong!

Agree with almost everything you said. The heavy hubs are only really a pig when you directly compare to the newer mid drives with equivalent power. I rode and loved my Fighter for over 9 years so I know exactly what it's capable of, but compared to my LMX64 it's night and day. The Fighter (and most other EMTB with hub motors) have to be fought to comply with what you want...the LMX64 on the other hand seems to become an extension of your body and can be whipped around so much more easily. While I never had any bad crashes on my Fighter, I did come close a lot just because it could get out of control on tight technical area's when carrying lots of speed. The LMX64 allows me to easily whip the rear around and control my angles so much more easily.
All that being said, the two things I miss the most about my Fighter are how quiet it was and it's massive range. I'm working on solving both with my LMX64 though.

Anyway, yeah I hardly make/sell any wiring harness any more now as most people just want 18650/21700 packs due to the better capacity available.
That being said, wiring harness with LiPo still has it's place if you just want raw, punchy power and don't mind loosing out a bit on the capacity.
A few recent examples of this I've made were my Futr Alpha running 14KW, and a guy running a Go Cart over in the states pushing 600A through a specially made harness.

Here's how I'm using one harness still...set this up as a powerwall for my house tonight.

Still has about 1Kwh so does a bit.

Cheers

 

[Theodore Voltaire]

For anyone who needs a pack in the states I had EMP out of Las Vegas build mine.. So far so good, Sean was great to deal with, but will keep everyone updated on how the pack goes.

I notice they now list a 35 ah battery on their site.

 

[Theodore Voltaire]

Here's how I'm using one harness still...set this up as a powerwall for my house tonight.
DSC_6041.JPG
Still has about 1Kwh so does a bit.

Cheers

Looks like a time bomb.

 

[Emmett]

I hardly make/sell any wiring harness any more now as most people just want 18650/21700 packs due to the better capacity available.
That being said, wiring harness with LiPo still has it's place if you just want raw, punchy power and don't mind loosing out a bit on the capacity.

Your wiring harness has been flawless thanks. Didn't need the 4P setup, but there's space in the frame for those unused plugs, so no problem.

So to confirm, do the LiPo setups provide the best discharge peak Amps per weight and the 18650/21700 packs provide the best energy per weight? If yes, then that's good to know and I'll stick with LiPo.

What about hub motor advancements - have they improved at all over a H4040 in terms of torque/power to weight options? I would only consider a high torque winding. I don't need to do over 60km/h. Same 74V. I have a H3065 wheel ready to go. It's also in a 19" MC rim and sealed with a 80ml oil in it, and I think is a little bit lighter. It does 80 km/h tops, but it's way slower than the H4040 for my use with far less torque. It's quite weak until over 40km/h and it gets way hotter than the H4040 too. If it was a H3040 it'd be better for me.

 

[1abv]

For anyone who needs a pack in the states I had EMP out of Las Vegas build mine.. So far so good, Sean was great to deal with, but will keep everyone updated on how the pack goes.

I notice they now list a 35 ah battery on their site.

Yea, Sean at EMP and I worked together to get it working and dialed in... But I cant complain. Its been pretty good.
On another note, you can see a pad I zip-ted to the frame. I ride with and with out my son on board, He weighs about 50 lbs, I'm about 165 and I know this is obvious but the difference between when hes on it is night and day esp when doing any hill climbs..

 

[Rix]

I hardly make/sell any wiring harness any more now as most people just want 18650/21700 packs due to the better capacity available.
That being said, wiring harness with LiPo still has it's place if you just want raw, punchy power and don't mind loosing out a bit on the capacity.

Your wiring harness has been flawless thanks. Didn't need the 4P setup, but there's space in the frame for those unused plugs, so no problem.

So to confirm, do the LiPo setups provide the best discharge peak Amps per weight and the 18650/21700 packs provide the best energy per weight? If yes, then that's good to know and I'll stick with LiPo.

What about hub motor advancements - have they improved at all over a H4040 in terms of torque/power to weight options? I would only consider a high torque winding. I don't need to do over 60km/h. Same 74V. I have a H3065 wheel ready to go. It's also in a 19" MC rim and sealed with a 80ml oil in it, and I think is a little bit lighter. It does 80 km/h tops, but it's way slower than the H4040 for my use with far less torque. It's quite weak until over 40km/h and it gets way hotter than the H4040 too. If it was a H3040 it'd be better for me.

Yah, the best "lightish" weight hub motor for power to weight ratio is the Crystalyte H55XX and UFO55XX. They weigh 2-3KG more than the H40xx you are running, but are quite a bit lighter than the cromotor, QS205, and 54XX motors, and can handle the similar amounts of current with a lot more thrust return. They will over heat a little faster than the cro and 205, but at around 8-9 pounds less weight, I would take that in a minute.