You seem very naive about the rules and the consequences of what you are planning. Other people commenting have no idea of what it's like around London. I very much doubt that you'll get away with riding that bike off-road or otherwise. In case you don't know, it's just as illegal to use it off-road as on the road. I personally don't judge anybody on what they do. I don't have any problem with what you want to do and I only want to inform you so that you're aware of the regulations and the risks. There's a lot of clever things people do to minimise the risks when they bend the rules, but you can only bend the rules so far. I wish you luck.quadfather said:
ENDUROEBIKE.COM
- Thread starter quadfather
- Start date
gwhy!1
100 kW
d8veh said:
that's not strictly true as depends where your using it offroad.
nutnspecial
10 MW
I know, surely he means on public offroad property only?
Otherwise, good points for op, get advice from people living with those laws in that particular area. . . .
And then all get together and CHANGE THE DAMN LAWS
Otherwise, good points for op, get advice from people living with those laws in that particular area. . . .
And then all get together and CHANGE THE DAMN LAWS
That's right, but off-road use is limited to private land with the owner's permission, which more or less limits you to your garden, any of your relatives' farms, or tracks specifically for using off-road vehicles, like track days at your local motor-cross circuit, for which you have to pay. Riding through the local woods is not allowed, nor farm tracks without the owner's permission, which just about rules out anything OP was intending.gwhy! said:d8veh said:
that's not strictly true as depends where your using it offroad.
Around London, they use helicopters to catch guys riding unofficially off road on motorcycles. They won't hear that it's electric from the helicopter, so it'll be dealt with just the same as a motorcycle. Nobody would be able to convince them that OP's planned bike is a 250w electrically assisted pedal cycle. It doesn't look anything like one. If OP is very lucky, he'll get a section 59 notice, which tells him not to use it again, but most likely, it'll go to the crusher.
I've ridden a lot of powerful electric bikes that looked like bicycles, i.e a diamond frame and Rockshox forks . Nobody bothered me. My neighbours boy got a section 59 notice for riding a 200w electric scooter on the road because it didn't have pedals. That was within a week of getting it. He later got one of those "250" scooters that have useless pedals. He was stopped twice in the first month of owning it. Each time he showed them some sort of certificate that came with it, and they left him to ride it. There was no way they could know that it had been over-volted and amps increased too.
quadfather
1 W
Well I've ordered the bike(s) !
As for using on public roads I WILL be making sure it is only 250w end of story and I feel confident that if anything was to happen I would be well within my rights to defend myself as I'm not a lawbreaker.
As for off road, I would only ramp it up and take in a place that I'm allowed. Had a kx125 and a cr250 back in the day so know plenty of places.
So my next question is I need the cycle analyst and speed controller. Where shall I order these from in the uk or do I have to order from Canada ?
The only speed controller I can find on there site is this http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/controllers/c7240-nc.html
Now I'm no ebike builder but I know electronics and 40a doesn't seem enough. What you guys think ? What's my alternatives as I believe this bike is wired for one of there controllers
As for using on public roads I WILL be making sure it is only 250w end of story and I feel confident that if anything was to happen I would be well within my rights to defend myself as I'm not a lawbreaker.
As for off road, I would only ramp it up and take in a place that I'm allowed. Had a kx125 and a cr250 back in the day so know plenty of places.
So my next question is I need the cycle analyst and speed controller. Where shall I order these from in the uk or do I have to order from Canada ?
The only speed controller I can find on there site is this http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/controllers/c7240-nc.html
Now I'm no ebike builder but I know electronics and 40a doesn't seem enough. What you guys think ? What's my alternatives as I believe this bike is wired for one of there controllers
nutnspecial
10 MW
I got my ca3 from ebike.ca, but the controller (18fet infineon) from em3.
I would confirm prices with them and order both from em3ev.com .
Paul can help with alot of info, has great customer support, and they will even preset the stuff for what you want!
I would confirm prices with them and order both from em3ev.com .
Paul can help with alot of info, has great customer support, and they will even preset the stuff for what you want!
quadfather
1 W
d8veh said:
Im not after a registered road bike. i want an off road looking bike that can be used on the road at 250w when needed and when needed can be ramped up to 5000w off road. i dont want to insure it, mot it etc etc.
it looks nice tho. and just about within budget. but i think im happy with mine thats coming. like i say ill be doing videos the whole way through delivery and build. charging, usage, rides.
will post the links here.
so with the 18fet ill be able to draw up to 60a rather than 40. does it still have all the same connectors ? as i believe my bike already has a wiring harness for the C7240-NC.
what about the motor ? anyone got experience with this chinese 5000w motor ?
nutnspecial
10 MW
I don't know much about hubs (haven't even seen one firsthand), but it's probably fine. Stator width, copperfill, and material quality are the things that might get skimped on with cheaper motors, but if they say 5kw, it should be ok for ya. Maybe cheap vs best in that size class will heat up faster? Throw a temp probe in it and add some cooling if you want. Cowardlyduck has a thread on using fans that is informative imo.
The em3 18fet will do nice to get you +5kw. Mine is set @ 66a/160, and shows 71a max draw on 20s/83-75v pack. I've had it set higher, and the thing never more than warmed, although maybe it would for a heavier hub ride.
Anyway, yes, I think it's the best for the money at that power level, but just start checking on the other 5kw hub builds and see what they have.
You know about adappto max-e? That will get you mo power, integrated controls and bms . . . I considered it for my next build, but haven't decided- price aside, depends on power level and if you have/want ca++ and bms?
The em3 18fet will do nice to get you +5kw. Mine is set @ 66a/160, and shows 71a max draw on 20s/83-75v pack. I've had it set higher, and the thing never more than warmed, although maybe it would for a heavier hub ride.
Anyway, yes, I think it's the best for the money at that power level, but just start checking on the other 5kw hub builds and see what they have.
You know about adappto max-e? That will get you mo power, integrated controls and bms . . . I considered it for my next build, but haven't decided- price aside, depends on power level and if you have/want ca++ and bms?
quadfather
1 W
thanks for the advise pal.
ive seen that envolt system on other builds. very nice! although like i say mine is pre-wired for cycle analyst.
so how will the 72v battery charge on my build with the cycle analyst. will it have some kind of bms fitted ? how is a standard charger going to be able to individually balance cells ? or is this done through the controller / cycle analyst ?
Thankyou in advance
ive seen that envolt system on other builds. very nice! although like i say mine is pre-wired for cycle analyst.
so how will the 72v battery charge on my build with the cycle analyst. will it have some kind of bms fitted ? how is a standard charger going to be able to individually balance cells ? or is this done through the controller / cycle analyst ?
Thankyou in advance
nutnspecial
10 MW
Pardon me, I forget/miss which battery you are thinking of besides lipo? Most can-cell packs have bms. You would add the bms on lipo too if you want. Yep, it acts like your rc charger to balance the whole pack on charge, and also protects from overdischarge. Pretty nice to have, especially in an enclosed frame imo. Otherwise people just bulkcharge lipo, and monitor/balance as needed, which isn't often, under the proper conditions. Same chargers can be used for naked bulk or bms I think.
Imo, it's likely you'll end up doing wiring at one point. I'd ask the controller seller directly about the plugs etc, but if you don't already have for the air-rc, imo it'd be a good idea to get a stripper, jst crimp tool, jst's, heatshrink, solder, flux, iron, minitorch, bullets/andersons/etc. Ebay and/or aliexpress has it all.
I don't think 'prewired for ca' would be an issue, it's probably just a plug end, and it's likely you'll be putting some connectors on any controller you buy except for the one endurobike mentions. Let's see, prewired could mean alot of things imo, I'm doubtful it is so much a harness per se when there is no controller, battery, or ca included?
You mentioned why you didn't want to buy battery/controller/etc from the seller?
Imo, it's likely you'll end up doing wiring at one point. I'd ask the controller seller directly about the plugs etc, but if you don't already have for the air-rc, imo it'd be a good idea to get a stripper, jst crimp tool, jst's, heatshrink, solder, flux, iron, minitorch, bullets/andersons/etc. Ebay and/or aliexpress has it all.
I don't think 'prewired for ca' would be an issue, it's probably just a plug end, and it's likely you'll be putting some connectors on any controller you buy except for the one endurobike mentions. Let's see, prewired could mean alot of things imo, I'm doubtful it is so much a harness per se when there is no controller, battery, or ca included?
You mentioned why you didn't want to buy battery/controller/etc from the seller?
quadfather
1 W
ok, so the only way i can balance charge is making sure there is a bms on the battery.
This kit includes a 72v 20ah lifepo4 battery. not sure if it has a bms. This was 500 dollars on its own (less shipping / import duties)
also a 72V 6A charger . it is suitable for 110v -240v
if it is just a bulk charge like you say i would definately like to add a bms. not sure how that would work tho ? does it work with cycle analyst or alone ?
sorry for the noob questios. but i do know about li-po's / balance charging, etc. just want to know how it can be fitted if its not included
This kit includes a 72v 20ah lifepo4 battery. not sure if it has a bms. This was 500 dollars on its own (less shipping / import duties)
also a 72V 6A charger . it is suitable for 110v -240v
if it is just a bulk charge like you say i would definately like to add a bms. not sure how that would work tho ? does it work with cycle analyst or alone ?
sorry for the noob questios. but i do know about li-po's / balance charging, etc. just want to know how it can be fitted if its not included
nutnspecial
10 MW
I don't do rc-air stuff, but I thought most of those quads,octos, and planes ran lipo. You are into that right?
The pictures and descriptions of their batteries appear to be the can cell type, not lipo. I'd be pretty certain it has bms in-pack and is plug/play. I assume you're getting the with 60a cont discharge?
They have 18 and 24fet (60-80a) controllers too, why not just get one of those so more of the wiring is matched up for certain? To use the ca for power limiting/temp rollback etc, the throttle, ebrake, switches (all instruments) will run into the ca, then the ca will tell the controller how to use the motor via the 6wire ca-controller connection.
Eitherway, you'll want to do some homework on batteries/ controllers/ ca to properly setup, care for, and fix later down the road. There's so much on the forum in the stickies, and the google and advanced searches work well.
Best, and keep asking questions!
The pictures and descriptions of their batteries appear to be the can cell type, not lipo. I'd be pretty certain it has bms in-pack and is plug/play. I assume you're getting the with 60a cont discharge?
They have 18 and 24fet (60-80a) controllers too, why not just get one of those so more of the wiring is matched up for certain? To use the ca for power limiting/temp rollback etc, the throttle, ebrake, switches (all instruments) will run into the ca, then the ca will tell the controller how to use the motor via the 6wire ca-controller connection.
Eitherway, you'll want to do some homework on batteries/ controllers/ ca to properly setup, care for, and fix later down the road. There's so much on the forum in the stickies, and the google and advanced searches work well.
Best, and keep asking questions!
quadfather
1 W
Thanks,
they say its a lifepo4 battery ? im sure theres some kind of bms.
As for the motor controller im going to go for the 18 fet IRFB4110 Infineon Controller (Motor With Hall Sensors)
but how do i know if my motor has hall sensors or not ? if it doesnt does this become useless ?
im only asking as i have to order that seperately from the bike. just want to make sure its right.
thanks
they say its a lifepo4 battery ? im sure theres some kind of bms.
As for the motor controller im going to go for the 18 fet IRFB4110 Infineon Controller (Motor With Hall Sensors)
but how do i know if my motor has hall sensors or not ? if it doesnt does this become useless ?
im only asking as i have to order that seperately from the bike. just want to make sure its right.
thanks
chunder123
1 W
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2013
- Messages
- 57
i have the enduro frame and with the new model dnm usd8 tapered fork. the dnm usd8 tapered forks have twin brake caliper mount points also if dual front mtb kits brakes are ever released. on a heavy 50kg ebike that would be good. enduro frame has 56mm id headtube. leili ebike suply the high power kit with both front and rear 19" motorcycle heavy duty type rims and the 2.5" motorcycle tire rubber is much tougher than mtb tires for heavy ebikes and less harder to puncture with heavy hub motors.
also checkout the denzel gross xl ebike frame which is wider 160mm and has a large frame bag and 72v 40ah option.
also checkout the denzel gross xl ebike frame which is wider 160mm and has a large frame bag and 72v 40ah option.
nutnspecial
10 MW
I think pretty much all hubs of that caliber, and pretty much any new I've seen have hall effect sensors.
Can't you email them and to tell'em you want 'x' controller for the bike you just bought, and have them confirm plug and play?
Did you say you bought off aliexpress or their website?
Can't you email them and to tell'em you want 'x' controller for the bike you just bought, and have them confirm plug and play?
Did you say you bought off aliexpress or their website?
quadfather
1 W
ok so i have spoke to paul at em3ev and he says that they reccomend the cycle analyst 2.3 which they dont do anymore.
he has suggested to buy a cycle analyst v3, 18 FET IRFB4110 INFINEON CONTROLLER, throttle, 3 way switch and ebrake sensors.
i know the bike comes with throttle, 3 way switch and ebrake sensors but like paul says these parts are very cheap and it makes sense to order them so i know all is compatible.
What you think ??
he has suggested to buy a cycle analyst v3, 18 FET IRFB4110 INFINEON CONTROLLER, throttle, 3 way switch and ebrake sensors.
i know the bike comes with throttle, 3 way switch and ebrake sensors but like paul says these parts are very cheap and it makes sense to order them so i know all is compatible.
What you think ??
nutnspecial
10 MW
I think it sounds good- mine works great. You'll have to let us know how ya like it!
quadfather
1 W
you have this same controller ? whats the max ampage you can draw with it ?
whats your 3 way switch settings ?
whats your 3 way switch settings ?
cfsmale
10 mW
hi guys, pretty new to the forum, from sunny scotland !
i have dealt with the factory and purchased many of my build parts from them
happy to answer any questions about the bike or my dealings with the company!
thanks
i have dealt with the factory and purchased many of my build parts from them
happy to answer any questions about the bike or my dealings with the company!
thanks
nutnspecial
10 MW
Yep, I think it's a good place to start for the cash. Any other potential enduro fans- check out alex 'denzel' bikes on aliexpress too. I dealt with him recently, and although I just got the frame and tires, good price, quality etc. Welcome new rider from Scotland!
Quad, I run the infineon naked with no ca control, you might have paul set it up to use the different presets and/or the 3spd for something else, but the initial settings (which I kept) where 50/75/100% speed. It's almost a necessity without power throttle via ca so you don't run into a tree @25mph in technical stuff with the standard speed sensitive throttle and high power
Quad, I run the infineon naked with no ca control, you might have paul set it up to use the different presets and/or the 3spd for something else, but the initial settings (which I kept) where 50/75/100% speed. It's almost a necessity without power throttle via ca so you don't run into a tree @25mph in technical stuff with the standard speed sensitive throttle and high power
cfsmale
10 mW
i have seen the Denzel bikes and I'm considering ordering one of the ' sparta ' carbon frames for a future build, awaiting information on stress tests etc as 4kg frame with such good looks seems too good to be true!
quadfather
1 W
cfsmale said:
hey! thanks for joining on here. tell me more about the bike pal. i have a few questions. and you speak english, well scottish lol but still better than the 'chinglish' ive been dealing with.... haha
how assembled was the bike in the box ?
how does the battery charge ? does it balance charge ? or have a built in bms in the battery?
did yours come with a cycle analyst ? if so which version ?
what amp speed controller does it have and how many fet ?
what were the 3 switch settings pre-set to ?
police stopped you yet ? lol
cfsmale
10 mW
the battery has a built in BMS so charging is straightforward through a charge port on top of the frame!
as for the police, highly unlikely ill get any hassle, i live in the far north east of scotland, in a small town with the the countryside on my doorstep, the bike will only be used on paths,trails and private land so its unlikely anyone will show any negative interest!
as for the police, highly unlikely ill get any hassle, i live in the far north east of scotland, in a small town with the the countryside on my doorstep, the bike will only be used on paths,trails and private land so its unlikely anyone will show any negative interest!
quadfather
1 W
cfsmale said:
souds great! i went for sea freight as i ordered 2 bikes and its a lot cheaper. gonna take a while tho. thats the only downside.
is there any usb output on the device ? for charging phone etc ?
is there any connections to wire in some lights to the main batery ? or will i need a huge dc to dc step down converter ?
did you go for the 19" wheel version ?
u have any pics you can put up ?
thanks pal.
