Enerdel 12S?! NMC pack

agniusm

agniusm

1 MW
Joined
Apr 16, 2011
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Lithuania, Zarasai
Just found these sold by http://evolveelectrics.com/.
I guess they are 12S 4.1V per cell. Does any one knows if they are any good? I read somewhere people using them with none issues.
They are on sale now at 779USD per 31AH 49.2v module. If 30 pcs group purchase - 701USD
155A continues and 465A for 10Seconds
15kg
MP320-049_large.png


Looks like it would cost cheaper than OSN A123 pack with unknown origin cells
 
I have used EnerDel for about 3 years now. Very good battery. See: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=50535
 
For those who use less than 60A.
http://evolveelectrics.com/Enerdel_ME330-049_Moxie.html

This seems like a really good deal! I would get on the buy, but I have plenty of lithium batteries I need to build.
 
Great find I would like one with more volts and lower amps. So for an ebike a 16s. To save the hub motor.
What about the bms does it come with the packs or order as you wish ?
 
Do anyone recon if evolveelectrics.com ship overseas?
There is no info on their website about this.

The price of the individual cells is very attractive.
http://evolveelectrics.com/Enerdel.html (Cells at bottom view)
Enerdels cell chemistry is NMC (Lithium nickel manganese cobalt - LiNiMnCoO2) and energy density up to 147Wh/kg
The price level can easily compete with LiFePO4. Very interesting indeed...as long as they ship overseas at reasonable cost.
 
http://evolveelectrics.com/Enerdel_CP155-365_Moxie.html

27.50$ per cell Sale atm.. thought that was a nice price surprised to see it.

EnerDel CP155-365 Power Cell
Sale!!! Offer Available Until 6/30/13.

Capacity
15.5 Ah
Nominal Voltage
3.65V
Maximum Voltage
4.10V
Minimum Voltage
2.50V
Maximum Continuous Discharge
5C
Maximum Pulse Discharge (10S)
15C
Maximum Continuous Charge
5C
Maximum Regen Charge (10S)
10C
 
Man if it is easy to build a pack, I might just buy a a bunch of cells and build packs for people. Beats dealing with shotty HobbyKing cells. Also it is safer. However I do need a few good reliable BMS to go with these.

From their website, I am not sure where they manufacture their cells now. Before it was in Korea, but now, it looks like it is from China after the partnership with wanxiang group.
 
Indianapolis, IN, USA. http://www.enerdel.com/ Although they have Russian ownership now (after reorganization) and I think some low level cell processing is done south of the boarder. But formation on through module and pack assembly is done in Indianapolis. I've been to the plant many times.
 
major said:
Indianapolis, IN, USA. http://www.enerdel.com/ Although they have Russian ownership now (after reorganization) and I think some low level cell processing is done south of the boarder. But formation on through module and pack assembly is done in Indianapolis. I've been to the plant many times.
Click to expand...

I know they assemble their pack here in the USA. The important question is where they manufacture the cells themselves and what is the Quality Assurance done on those cells. From my experience, Hobbyking cells vary wildly in terms of quality. Therefore, you always have to buy more than necessary just to keep the good one going after the bad one are dead. When you factor in the "extra" cells needed with the low cycle counts, HobbyKing cells are no longer a good choice in terms of price and reliability. Not to mention how dangerous Lipo are. I, for one, am done with Hobbyking cells and now trying to find something else much more reliable, relatively high power, relatively cheap in cost, easy to obtain, safe, and last for many cycles.

Enerdel looks like a great alternative for safe and good cells at a great price. Now they are reaching that point.

BTW, I contacted them about how much it will cost for the 12s and how easy it is to make a 24s1p from the 12s2p and here is their response on making a 24s

Thank you for the inquiry. Because of the way the modules are designed the only way to come up with a 1p configuration would be to only half populate the (12) 2p elements in each module. Enerdel is coming out with a 24s1p module but because it's in the prototype stage it's extremely expensive and not practical in small quantities. Feel free to let me know if you have any tech questions. If you would like a quote for some modules please indicate the part number and quantity and somebody at sales will respond as soon as possible.


No mention of the sale. I guess I would need to get the individual cells instead of the pack.
 
hmm price seems pretty good
does anyone have any experience with nmc/ it would be interesting to see someone cba test one of these cells- to get the IR/and capacity
how does this compare to lifepo4? the c rate seems low but good life span.....is this chemistry like lipo? causing fires if over-discharged/charged/dropped?
 
I have posted some tests here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=50535 More tests over on the DIY forum: hhttp://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/fs-enerdel-modules-480-86245.html If you can't see those and don't wish to sign up over there, let me know and I can post the results here.

I've been testing these cells for 2 or 3 years. I use my own test stand and run the module (2P12S) for most tests and use a couple of CellLog8s to monitor the individual cells. I have run tests on single cells but those were experimental. An EnerDel engineer told me last year they had 3 million cells in the field without a cell failure. These are OEM applications like EV cars and hybrid buses, and utility grid load leveling.

And EnerDel does their own BMS. The modules which I have for sale and from evolve do not come with the EnerDel BMS. You can use whatever BMS you want. elithion offers a custom BMS made for the 2P12S module and has other BMS solutions.

This shows the 2P12S module construction: http://liionbms.com/cgi-bin/moin.py/CustomProducts/EDI/EnerdelBattery

I drive an EV with a 24kWh pack of EnerDel every day and put 10,000 miles on it in the past 12 months. We also used EnerDel in the Lightning MC and set the record for electric 2 wheelers at 215.960mph in 2011. It still stands and those cells are still in use on that bike to my knowledge. It may have been the Lightning (they have 2) to win Pikes Peak last month.

EnerDel makes a quality cell and a great battery. They cleaned house in Indianapolis and evolve got some good prices. I got a few surplus modules. These sale prices are about 25 to 50% of the normal OEM pricing. Some of the sale modules are grade B or C meaning 5 or 10% low on energy (really Ah) but are still new and top quality. The 1C capacity test I ran on a surplus module showed close to 19Ah per cell on the 2P12S module which is supposed to have 17.5Ah cells. I'll see if I have that test on this computer.
 
thanks for the info
so what are the safety characteristics? puncture test/ over-charge / over-discharge
 
davec said:
so what are the safety characteristics? puncture test/ over-charge / over-discharge
Click to expand...

You can find some information and a white paper here: http://www.enerdel.com/ And OEMs like Volvo appear to have confidence with them.
 
Major, i see you worked with these cells for some time. Was wandering if 2s2p (from another module) could be added to the module making it 14S by only using longer compression rods and routing additional sense wires?
 
agniusm said:
Major, i see you worked with these cells for some time. Was wandering if 2s2p (from another module) could be added to the module making it 14S by only using longer compression rods and routing additional sense wires?
Click to expand...

The plastic frames will stack so you can add 2P elements. So yes you can make a 2P14S module. As you say you will need longer thru bolts. The sense wires cannot be altered as they are a flexible printed circuit. This can be removed and wires connected to the cell bus bar screws for your own BMS solution. We do this when building modules for the Lightning and other applications using up to 20S. I like the 2P12S module as is and try to us it where ever possible.
 
Major,
how much do the kits cost?
is it possible to get one to build a 16S/ or 20S pack?
 
davec said:
Major,
how much do the kits cost?
is it possible to get one to build a 16S/ or 20S pack?
Click to expand...

Hi davec,

I am selling the 2P12S modules for $480. That contains 24 cells in a 2Parallel 12Series configuration. The module is pictured here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=50535 I do not want to alter the 2P12S configuration. Once you have bought it you can do what you wish. It is possible to reconfigure the plastic frames to 4P?S but you need new bus bars. A guy has that design for his Sparrow available on the web. It is difficult to use the plastic frames for a 1S configuration and I haven't seen that done. You can come up with your own design to use 1P?S but that is up to you.

If you do not wish to purchase the plastic frames and want to buy only the cells, I will disassemble the module and sell the cells for $20 apiece. A minimum quantity would be required as it hampers my ability to sell the remainder of cells from a module.

Regards,

major

edit: http://howman.com/sparrow/enerdel/
 
If anyone in New Zealand is interested...

I am going to do a 10 module order to Christchurch in the next few days and have space on the pallet for more cells or modules. It will work out to roughly US$7 per cell shipping cost before GST. Send me a message if interested and I'll let you know more details. Payment required in advance, of course...

Pricing here:

http://evolveelectrics.com/Enerdel.html

Edward
 
major said:
davec said:
Major,
how much do the kits cost?
is it possible to get one to build a 16S/ or 20S pack?
Click to expand...

Hi davec,

I am selling the 2P12S modules for $480. That contains 24 cells in a 2Parallel 12Series configuration. The module is pictured here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=50535 I do not want to alter the 2P12S configuration. Once you have bought it you can do what you wish. It is possible to reconfigure the plastic frames to 4P?S but you need new bus bars. A guy has that design for his Sparrow available on the web. It is difficult to use the plastic frames for a 1S configuration and I haven't seen that done. You can come up with your own design to use 1P?S but that is up to you.

If you do not wish to purchase the plastic frames and want to buy only the cells, I will disassemble the module and sell the cells for $20 apiece. A minimum quantity would be required as it hampers my ability to sell the remainder of cells from a module.

Regards,

major

edit: http://howman.com/sparrow/enerdel/
Click to expand...

Major you are tempting me to buy more cells! hahah. But I have enough batteries as is. $20 per cell is a great price and I would probably take the full one pack, i.e. 24s. This will give me 4 cells leeway for a 20s build just incase 1 or more cells are weak. Or maybe just filter out the 4 weakest cells and save those for booster when the main one are starting to show aging.
 
major thanks for the clarification
for 20/per is brand new unused?
yes it is unfortunate that the casing/module assembly for these only does 2p + up - for 1p one has to design something and the way these cells are shaped it looks like a challenge...although i've heard that if you design your own bus bars - it is possible to reconfigure a pack to 1p(might be wrong on this)
 
davec said:
for 20/per is brand new unused?
Click to expand...

The cells are new and unused but I would have to disassemble from the plastic frames in the modules so they would have the 2 slots in the tabs as shown here: http://liionbms.com/cgi-bin/moin.py/CustomProducts/EDI/EnerdelBattery I've had plenty of practice with disassembly and assembly of these modules and have the proper tools and technique. I only have a few shipping trays for single cells but could figure out how to safely package them. You can investigate if a package containing a single cell or 2 might conform to a carrier's rules w/r/t to watt hours. I think they are still too large for USPS, FedEx and UPS.
 
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