EZip Trailz LS - 2013

[DrkAngel]

I'm now getting a periodic loud click (or light clunk, perhaps) from what I think is the motor drive system. Disengaging and then gently re-engaging it with the throttle will usually get rid of it.

Check all spokes.
If motor chain has excessive play, tighten it up a bit. Do not adjust to the point of chain being tight, you want a slight amount of free play. Too loose or too tight will make noise.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'm now getting a periodic loud click (or light clunk, perhaps) from what I think is the motor drive system. Disengaging and then gently re-engaging it with the throttle will usually get rid of it.

Check all spokes.
If motor chain has excessive play, tighten it up a bit. Do not adjust to the point of chain being tight, you want a slight amount of free play. Too loose or too tight will make noise.

Did all that. I think the freewheel for the motor may have been damaged a bit while the chain was constantly stretching and I wasn't always using the throttle to pre-load the drive before engaging PAS. Just a guess, though. Is that left freewheel mechanism rebuildable without removing all the spokes? I'd like to put synthetic grease in the motor and freewheel (if that's ok) when the frigid weather comes. Until then I hope to baby it through. The rear wheel has been strong and straight, and I'd rather keep it than but a new one.

 

[DrkAngel]

Did all that. I think the freewheel for the motor may have been damaged a bit while the chain was constantly stretching and I wasn't always using the throttle to pre-load the drive before engaging PAS. Just a guess, though. Is that left freewheel mechanism rebuildable without removing all the spokes? I'd like to put synthetic grease in the motor and freewheel (if that's ok) when the frigid weather comes. Until then I hope to baby it through. The rear wheel has been strong and straight, and I'd rather keep it than but a new one.

Freewheel is removable, but don't believe to be rebuildable?
Replacement 20T from Curriestore.com, 22T and 16T from Staton-inc.com.

I tried synthetic grease w/teflon but was disappointed. Grease tended to "clump" rather than "stick" to gears.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Did all that. I think the freewheel for the motor may have been damaged a bit while the chain was constantly stretching and I wasn't always using the throttle to pre-load the drive before engaging PAS. Just a guess, though. Is that left freewheel mechanism rebuildable without removing all the spokes? I'd like to put synthetic grease in the motor and freewheel (if that's ok) when the frigid weather comes. Until then I hope to baby it through. The rear wheel has been strong and straight, and I'd rather keep it than but a new one.

Freewheel is removable, but don't believe to be rebuildable?
Replacement 20T from Curriestore.com, 22T and 16T from Staton-inc.com.

I tried synthetic grease w/teflon but was disappointed. Grease tended to "clump" rather than "stick" to gears.

Maybe lithium grease? I want to use the bike when temps are in the 50's F. Not very cold by mechanical standards, but I don't know what quality grease they come with. I like the OEM sprocket size, in that it's low enough to climb all the hills around here, but high enough to let me ride fast enough to feel like I'm going fast when I feel like it. If I changed size I'd lose one of those two attributes. Are you saying I need to get a new sprocket with a new freewheel mechanism?

 

[DrkAngel]

Maybe lithium grease?

Wheel bearing grease recommended by Currie.

Are you saying I need to get a new sprocket with a new freewheel mechanism?

No!
Based on your diagnosis ... you are saying that.

 

[LeftieBiker]

No, I don't think having the wrong final drive ratio for my needs is the problem. I think the freewheel mechanism is a little weak for the *kind* of riding I do: disengaging the motor a lot (for quiet) and then re-engaging it as needed (also a lot). People who ride under power most or all of the time are putting less stress on the non-motor part of the powertrain. I put less stress on the motor, but more on the freewheel splines or whatever it uses.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Today I snapped a couple of spokes, at the rear hub. I was able to *slowly* get the bike the four miles home, in the cold, without the wheel collapsing. It appears that nobody has the wheel assembly in stock, so I was wondering if anyone here has a good, near-new rear wheel assembly...? Failing that, can anyone sell me a handful of spokes? I've never done spoke replacement (unless maybe as a kid) but I should be able to manage it. I can get the motor side freewheel/sprocket easily enough, I think, so I should be able to refurbish the wheel I have, and hopefully still add a 250 watt front motor. With about 1500 miles on the wheel, I'm not complaining - I should have kept better watch on the spokes.

 

[DrkAngel]

Best replacement spokes

72 CUSTOM LENGTH STAINLESS 13G SPOKES - $26 + $5 shipping

150 13g Nipples

But I still would recommend the "proper lacing" and using my "washer method" of tuning spoke positioning, as documented here.
See - Broken Spokes - eZip Solutions

 

[LeftieBiker]

I saw that Ebay search link in another topic here. I don't know what length to specify. As for doing a modified lacing pattern or using washers, I think I'd be in over my head - I was just going to replace the broken ones, plus any that looked suspicious. If I removed them all and re-laced them I know I'd screw it up.Can you tell me what to tell the seller I want in the way of specs? What, for example, are 13G and 15G? Thickness? Does "G" stand for "gauge"?

 

[DrkAngel]

See - Broken Spokes - eZip Solutions

g=ga=gauge - thickness of spoke - 14g is standard, 12g much heavier-thicker-stronger
UCP - Universal Chrome Plate - cheap
SS - Stainless Steel - stronger, more durable, rust proof

I bought a bundle of cheap 14g UCP 260mm, ground 2mm off the end of some,
260mm for motor side,
258mm for pedal side,
and began a prolonged and woeful tale of spoke replacements.
Finally, when my supply diminished, I used the remainder and replaced all spokes,
using washers and "proper" spoke lacing.

No problems for the next 4000 miles!

See - Broken Spokes - eZip Solutions

 

[LeftieBiker]

I don't suppose you'd like to do a re-lace on my wheel...? I spent the morning trying to locate a new one. So far, no dice. Currie seems to have little interest in providing enough replacement assemblies.

 

[DrkAngel]

Any bike shop will do it.
Shouldn't cost much.
Print a picture or show them my referenced thread to explain washer mod.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Any bike shop will do it.
Shouldn't cost much.
Print a picture or show them my referenced thread to explain washer mod.

I think I've found a shop that will repair it, at least... In the spoke thread, someone mentions that Currie adopted a similar lacing pattern; does that mean my 2013 doesn't need to have the pattern changed? So 13G SS spokes, 18 each of 250mm and 260mm, is what I need, plus maybe the washers? I'd like to use the washers, but the bike shop, even if they went for the idea, would charge a lot more. And if I take them off and do the washer prep myself, they won't see the lacing pattern...

 

[DrkAngel]

Any bike shop will do it.
Shouldn't cost much.
Print a picture or show them my referenced thread to explain washer mod.

I think I've found a shop that will repair it, at least... In the spoke thread, someone mentions that Currie adopted a similar lacing pattern; does that mean my 2013 doesn't need to have the pattern changed? So 13G SS spokes, 18 each of 258mm and 260mm, is what I need, plus maybe the washers? I'd like to use the washers, but the bike shop, even if they went for the idea, would charge a lot more. And if I take them off and do the washer prep myself, they won't see the lacing pattern...

Look at the picture!
This is my solution ... as the proper spoke directionality.
Hub, turning counter-clockwise, uses the spokes with the "elbow" turned outward to pull the rim.

If Currie had adopted this method then you probably would not have gotten any broken spokes.
Picture of Currie lacing with pulling elbows turned inward, without washers, which clearly demonstrates the damaging stress.

These spokes break at the elbows - near arrow locations.
The elbows tuned inward gives the spokes a more damaging stress angle.

The narrowness of the spoke flange amplifies elbow stress.
Adding the washer pulls the elbow closer to the flange, which greatly reduces the leverage factor - .
Adding the washer = pulling the elbow close to the flange, will reduce the leverage stress to possibly 1/4 which might relate to a 16x lifespan.

12g spokes and washer mod, overkill ... but demonstrates my solution.


Washer mod is simply sliding a #4 washer on each spoke before installing.

Local BS should have 14g spokes available and should work nicely.
SS preferred.
13g are better, if available, or don't mind waiting to get them.

While I confess that I might use a bit of technical "shorthand", I try to give reasonably complete and understandable explanations-instructions in my original posts.
If not understandable, perhaps you should not attempt my mods by yourself?
Have a buddy look at this thread and "translate" it for you?
Better yet refer the bike shop guy to the thread, it is his field of expertise and probably instantly clear.

 

[LeftieBiker]

So, does the rim have to be drilled for 13G spokes, or not? I assume the duct tape is a good idea regardless, and that would require either removing all the spokes or using tape strips under each washer. Also, the lacing pattern itself isn't intuitive; you have to realize that there is a learning curve for jobs like this, and I wouldn't want to learn on the rim I needed to stay tight and straight. I'll print the photos, though, and show them to the shop. Or, failing that, I'll replace one spoke at a time, using the tape strips and a tape layer or two over the washers. That's assuming I don't find a wheel.

On a slightly related note: I'm thinking about having a "Summer Motor" and a "Winter Motor" because in Winter the PAS runs the bike too fast for comfort. Do I need two whole assemblies, or just one mounting plate and two motors? I'd use the torque sprocket for Winter and leave the OEM sprocket on for Summer, at least for now, as I understand it's hard to get the sprocket off a motor once it's been in use a while.

 

[DrkAngel]

So, does the rim have to be drilled for 13G spokes, or not? I assume the duct tape is a good idea regardless, and that would require either removing all the spokes or using tape strips under each washer. Also, the lacing pattern itself isn't intuitive; you have to realize that there is a learning curve for jobs like this, and I wouldn't want to learn on the rim I needed to stay tight and straight. I'll print the photos, though, and show them to the shop. Or, failing that, I'll replace one spoke at a time, using the tape strips and a tape layer or two over the washers. That's assuming I don't find a wheel.

On a slightly related note: I'm thinking about having a "Summer Motor" and a "Winter Motor" because in Winter the PAS runs the bike too fast for comfort. Do I need two whole assemblies, or just one mounting plate and two motors? I'd use the torque sprocket for Winter and leave the OEM sprocket on for Summer, at least for now, as I understand it's hard to get the sprocket off a motor once it's been in use a while.

DNK on drilling the rim, I bought enough 13g SS spokes to rebuild 4 wheels but my relacing with 14g, washers and proper direction has suffered no failures, on any of my eBikes. My spare wheel has a couple broken spokes, but am waiting for another break so I can do multiple wheels at one time.
I recommend washers for the hub ... washers on the rim doesn't help with spoke durability (I used them with the 12g spokes but recommend them only for the harshest abuse, 12g spokes are capable of extreme tension).



By the way, you will need 260mm and 258mm (not 250mm) spokes.

 

[LeftieBiker]

So 14G spokes, and #4 washers on the hub only should be fine, with no drilling? Any tricks to washer placement on the hub?

 

[LeftieBiker]

By the way, you will need 260mm and 258mm (not 250mm) spokes.

That's what I wrote - 258 and 260. Is there is typo in one of your posts? I must have missed it. Oh, wait - now I see it, in an earlier post of mine. I'll order the right sizes, if I have to refurbish my wheel.

 

[DrkAngel]

So 14G spokes, and #4 washers on the hub only should be fine, with no drilling? Any tricks to washer placement on the hub?

Just slip one on each spoke before inserting into hub.
Look at pictures!

 

[gogo]

On a slightly related note: I'm thinking about having a "Summer Motor" and a "Winter Motor" because in Winter the PAS runs the bike too fast for comfort. Do I need two whole assemblies, or just one mounting plate and two motors? I'd use the torque sprocket for Winter and leave the OEM sprocket on for Summer, at least for now, as I understand it's hard to get the sprocket off a motor once it's been in use a while.

Its the freewheel that becomes more difficult to remove after its been in service. If you have the LBS take the freewheel off be sure to stress that they are working with left-handed threads on that freewheel. I think it was E-S member REID who had an eZip hub destroyed by his LBS on an eZip wheel.

If you dig around in DrkAngel's posts I think he details your gearing options. For less speed with the PAS mode you'd want some combination of smaller motor sprocket and/or larger hub freewheel sprocket.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Just slip one on each spoke before inserting into hub. Look at pictures!

I am looking, and appreciate the new, better photo. I wanted to make sure you aren't prepping the washers in any way (or the hub), which wouldn't show in a photo.

 

[LeftieBiker]

On a slightly related note: I'm thinking about having a "Summer Motor" and a "Winter Motor" because in Winter the PAS runs the bike too fast for comfort. Do I need two whole assemblies, or just one mounting plate and two motors? I'd use the torque sprocket for Winter and leave the OEM sprocket on for Summer, at least for now, as I understand it's hard to get the sprocket off a motor once it's been in use a while.

Its the freewheel that becomes more difficult to remove after its been in service. If you have the LBS take the freewheel off be sure to stress that they are working with left-handed threads on that freewheel. I think it was E-S member REID who had an eZip hub destroyed by his LBS on an eZip wheel.

If you dig around in DrkAngel's posts I think he details your gearing options. For less speed with the PAS mode you'd want some combination of smaller motor sprocket and/or larger hub freewheel sprocket.

I've seen the gearing options, although I'd want to refresh my memory on tooth count. Since I need a new freewheel, I was thinking of just getting one with one or two more teeth, instead of dealing with changing the motor sprocket or buying a new motor. (Although if I can get a whole motor assembly for a good price, I may anyway.)

 

[DrkAngel]

I've seen the gearing options, although I'd want to refresh my memory on tooth count. Since I need a new freewheel, I was thinking of just getting one with one or two more teeth, instead of dealing with changing the motor sprocket or buying a new motor. (Although if I can get a whole motor assembly for a good price, I may anyway.)

Staton-inc.com has the 22T, but that is only a 10% reduction.


You might want to wait ...
I just took a ride in the cold and suffered a 2-3mph speed handicap.

Not sure if will fit ... might be too large of a diameter ...
But possible to put together a 27T.

&

 

[LeftieBiker]

I think the 22 would work. I don't need a big speed reduction. I get little voltage sag with the Ping Pack, even in cold weather. If it's cold enough for sag, I'm home on the recumbent exercise bike!

 

[LeftieBiker]

A little OT, but not much: I may be able to buy an Electro-Drive kit for a decent price. Is a 2012 kit likely to have the better wheel assembly from the EZIP, or did they finally start selling the actual EZIP wheel in the EZIP kit?