Facebook Conversation with Ebike Hater's

[00Tj]

Just posting this here as I said I would on the ES facebook page..

I have just spent the last hour arguing with a bunch of people on a MTB B/S/T about bow awful and terrible
bike's like the Stealth Bomber are and how "they should all be burned" and "why wouldn't you just buy a moto?"

So here it all is...

(Also, I did slightly "exaggerate" a bit to make a point... battery range's and so forth... lol)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Context : A photo of a Stealth was posted on this MTB BST group page as a For Sale.

Jimmy Hamilton
It would want to be tubeless or that thing would pinch flat like crazy.
November 29 at 1:06pm · Like · 1

Eddy Zu
How much you selling?
November 29 at 1:07pm · Like

Eddy Zu
Hey, do you sell DH bike racks that go on a hitch?
November 29 at 1:08pm · Like

Scott Hampton
something different lol
November 29 at 1:09pm · Like

Mark Butel
It's for sale on www.roofrackstore.com.au shocking price

Thule Roof Rack Store Sydney | Fitting | Online – Free Freight
Welcome to Roof Rack Store! We are an independent...
ROOFRACKSTORE.COM.AU
November 29 at 1:13pm · Like

Mark Butel
But if you got the money..smiles all round
November 29 at 1:13pm · Like

Eddy Zu
i like the word "Free"
November 29 at 1:18pm · Like

Michael Vlattas
How much ?
November 29 at 1:20pm · Like

Mark Butel
The bike won't fit any rack they said
November 29 at 1:21pm · Like · 1

Tim Manton
I reckon it would fit on a GripSport rack on the tow bar hitch
November 29 at 1:24pm · Like · 2

Jimmy Hamilton
Guessing it's a Stealth?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuwESVujaHg
November 29 at 1:27pm · Like · 1

Darryn Seymour
How much is that thing?
November 29 at 1:31pm · Like

Jake Fletcher
Whats it like over road gaps?
November 29 at 1:45pm · Like · 2

Alex Jackson Wright
Swaps for a jet ski?
November 29 at 2:03pm · Like

Ollie Heys Gil
how can we get this?
November 29 at 2:12pm · Like

Stephen Phan
Stealth bomber! Love these.
November 29 at 2:22pm · Like

Patrick Humphries
Just buy a moto...
November 29 at 3:09pm · Like · 9

Ben Stevens
Was it made by Hyena Bikes? i.e. Jay Flack?
November 29 at 3:24pm · Like

Marcell Nunes
U won't go as fast as a moto up hill and won't go as fast as a bike down hill
November 29 at 3:27pm · Like · 7

Eddy Zu
apparently it goes 90kph.
When did you last go DH at 90kph?
Marcell?
November 29 at 3:30pm · Like · 5

Marcell Nunes
Good luck going 90kph on a down hill track.
November 29 at 3:35pm · Like · 6

Mark Butel
It would be a big smile....
Maybe the last but fun
November 29 at 3:36pm · Like · 1

Gil Garrett
How much willing to make an offer?
November 29 at 4:25pm · Like

Andrew Wilson
Surely that's just a motocross bike?
November 29 at 5:17pm · Like · 1

Eddy Zu
Oh I thought its MTB not hybrid-electric bikes.
November 29 at 5:20pm · Like · 1

Mark Butel
I said in the beginning it's got 4500 watts of power..
November 29 at 5:25pm · Like

Josh Chate
would love to see you tackle Kiera on this
November 29 at 5:39pm · Like

Ben Wakeford
It would probably slow me down haha
November 29 at 5:40pm · Like · 5

Michael Vanos
Gheyyyyyyyyy
November 29 at 6:19pm · Like · 10

Brad Kelly
Would be good to get back to the top of the hill on though..
November 29 at 6:42pm · Like · 6

Jimmy Hamilton
And then it goes flat and you pedal a million kilo bike back to the car and put it on the FB trading page.
November 29 at 7:26pm · Like · 13

Corey Davies
I give it to the missus so she could have as much fun as I do
November 29 at 8:49pm · Like · 2

Eddy Zu
#Respect to the man!
November 29 at 8:50pm · Like

Simon Beggs
Any chance you could burn it?
November 29 at 11:04pm · Like · 3

Dave Compton
Did I spot you in Belrose / Duffy's Forest earlier in the week flying down the road on this?
November 29 at 11:10pm · Like

Clive Robért
Howmuch
November 30 at 12:58am · Like

Noah Watson
How much
November 30 at 2:51pm · Like

Adam Jon
Shite!!
November 30 at 3:52pm · Like · 1

Mark Butel
Was either 7 or 9 thousand. ..out of my range either way
November 30 at 4:09pm · Like · 1

Paul King
This is the antithesis of mountain bike riding, these bikes should be burned on mass
November 30 at 8:30pm · Like · 6

Wes Colbran
2 grand fine if you get busted in a public area as well
November 30 at 8:34pm · Like

Mischa Prior
i really don't understand these bikes, why not just ride a trail motorbike?
November 30 at 8:37pm · Like · 1

Mark Sinclair
Either grow a set and ride DH or buy yourself an enduro moto. No place for a half bike/moto.
December 1 at 12:26am · Like · 2

Jerry Armstrong
if you shit heads rode motocross you would under stand!!
December 1 at 7:20am · Like

Ben Stevens
We burn calories, not coal.
December 1 at 7:56am · Like · 2

Zack Beaven
Looks like a bit of fun i think
December 1 at 9:06am · Like · 2

Tony Ryan
$9990 for a Stealth Bomber.
Also, All you fool's saying there is no place for these? You have obviously never ridden a good ebike!
When other "real" rider's take the lift or car to the top of the mountain... I ride. So much ignorance on this page...
19 hrs · Like · 4

Sebastian Grant
Yes, but then they ride a nice light fun bike back down the hill. As others have said, just buy a moto.
One day these e-bikes will be good, probably just after they start making e-cars that I'd consider buying
but until then I'll keep burning gasoline or calories thanks.
56 mins · Like

Alex Jackson Wright
These bikes are awsome. If I had the cashola id buy it. But I worry about the re sale value. At 9990 new thats a lot to loose.
53 mins · Like · 1

Tony Ryan
I burn calories at 60km/h. You do realise with these bikes you can still pedal hard upto 70km/h because of their sequential gearbox.
My downhill electric bike weighs an extra 4kg more than the standard bike. So again, you have no idea what you're talking about.
I can also outrun my mates that bring WR250's out so you can keep you petrol and I'll keep my ebike with instant 100% torque.
What do you mean by "one day they'll be good"? I can tell by that comment you have never ride a electric bike. Again, ignorance.
47 mins · Like · 1

Tony Ryan
And the resale value on these are good. A 2012 model still goes for $8k.
46 mins · Like · 1

Andrew Wilson
Tony, go somewhere else if you're going to talk to people like that.

You've come to a mountain bike forum to post something that's not a 'mountain bike' in most people's opinions
(from Wikipedia: A bicycle, often called a bike or cycle, is a human-powered, pedal-driven, single-track vehicle, having two wheels attached to a frame, one behind the other).
43 mins · Like · 1

Wes Colbran its still illegal to ride it on public land in NSW .
43 mins · Like · 1

Sebastian Grant
Ignorant fool, you sound like a bit of a jerk mate. What's with the personal insults?
If you can outrun your mates on their wr250s they can't ride. As for the weight when, you say 4kg heavier than what exactly are we talking about.
It's not just about total weight, it's where that weight is. Seems like it would be quite high which is bad for handling.
What's the range on that bad boy too? I bet it ain't as good as a motor bike.
42 mins · Like

Sebastian Grant
Tony, are you the guy who's been seen riding one of these at omv tearing the place apart?
39 mins · Like

Tony Ryan
And when they make ecar's you would consider buying?? lol. Have you not heard of the Porsche 918? Or the Mclaren P1?
Or a Tesla? Or a BMW i8? Or a Cadillac ELR? Or a Chevy Volt? Or a Lexus GS460? Or a Ford Focus Electric? Or a Honda Accord PHEV?
Or a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV? Or a Porsche Panamera EV? Do I need to continue?
39 mins · Like

Jimmy Hamilton
The Stealth looks wicked, DNM rear shock and Magura MT2 brakes for 10 grand hahahaha.
Those brakes can't stop a normal bike but then I guess you get awesome things like grip shift and a button to push for regenerative braking, sounds soooo good!

Hub motors
on duallies is a stupid idea!
36 mins · Edited · Like

Andrew Wilson
Tony, he said 'e cars THAT I'D CONSIDER BUYING' - not that they don't make any.

The point was also raised re their effect on trails - these things can be very damaging.
35 mins · Like

Sebastian Grant
Yes, being a car enthusiast I've heard of all those cars. Most of those cars are hybrids not e-cars so who's the ignorant fool now?
The ones that are real e-cars are either super expensive or have shit range. I wrote cars I'd consider buying.
34 mins · Like · 1

Tony Ryan
At where sorry?
One of my bike's is a Specialized Enduro with a 1700W mid drive. And the range is 120km. One of my other bikes is a custom 5000W Raptor with 150km range.
You really don't understand what 100% torque instantly means do you? I have outrun an Audi R8 off the light's upto 80km/h..
also, Andrew Wilson, All my bikes are human-powered, pedal-driven, single-track vehicle, having two wheels attached to a frame, one behind the other.
They just happen to have a small motor and batteries attached as well. These are considered bikes! Hence why they don't need to be registered!
Anyway, i'm over this. If any of you actually want to learn about these bikes.. Let me know. Otherwise, have fun getting to work covered in sweat.
32 mins · Like

Tony Ryan
You wouldn't buy a Tesla S? Wow.. And 400km is shit range?
Andrew Wilson, the effect on trails is actually less than a normal bike. My bike's have regenerative ebrakes.
They are like ABS brakes so when I brake I don't rip big hole's in the ground.. Like many of my frind's on "normal" bikes do.
30 mins · Like

Tony Ryan
Andrew Wilson.. Have a read. http://www.singletracks.com/.../opinion-electric.../

Opinion: Electric Mountain Bikes Belong on MTB Trails | Singletracks Mountain...
SINGLETRACKS.COM
26 mins · Like · Remove Preview

Sebastian Grant
Range of 120km on the road I'd imagine. For commuters e-bikes are great, there's no doubt about that but what
happens when you run out of juice, how long does it take to recharge? As for the teslar, sadly I don't have the $ and the
400km range is a load of crap. Get on the net and read real reviews on them. Claimed and real life range are two different things
to a slight degree in petrol and a massive degree with electric.
25 mins · Like · 1

Patrick Humphries
What a waste of a specialized enduro!
22 mins · Like

Tony Ryan
120 on the road and about 105km on a trail, farm's etc. Recharge time is about 55 minutes.
I know about battery technology and the difference between stated claim's and actual. That is a real world actual figure taken from a Tesla driver's forum.
22 mins · Like

Patrick Humphries
In MY opinion that is ruining an amazing bike...
22 mins · Like

Tony Ryan
How exactly? It is a mid-drive motor that weigh's 3kg and batteries weigh about 1.5kg? You do realise I can turn the motor off and use it as a normal bike yeah?
20 mins · Like


Sebastian Grant
120km on the road is ridiculous range. On a side note, your bike being able to do 80km an hour makes it
illegal in Australia does it not? Patrick, what's the specialized e-bike governed to?
19 mins · Like

Tony Ryan
Specialized ebike is 250W And it is a lump of crap. Also, my bike has a 250W switch to make it road legal.
Anyway, I don't care anymore.. Each to their own. But one day you guy's will ride an e bike and wonder why the hell you were so against it!
17 mins · Like

Patrick Humphries
I do understand that you can use it as a normal bike, but adding 4.5kg would completely frock with the handling! Hence why I think it is ruined.

Seb they're rated to 250 watts, the legal limit for e-bikes in aus
16 mins · Like

Patrick Humphries
I'm not against them as commuters, just off road it's all about getting out and having fun riding your bike both up and down trails
15 mins · Like

Sebastian Grant
Yes, 4.5kg on a trail bike especially would f with the handling to much for me and I ride a zerode FFS haha.
15 mins · Like

Sebastian Grant
You're right tony, when I'm to old to pedal I'll be on one.

 

[crea2k]

lol you are wasting your time, cycling purists go on the fact that to ride a bike you must inflict major pain on yourself, you arnt allowed to go out and just enjoy the contryside, as you have to be having a heard attack. Then there is the motocross people that comment on e motocross bike videos and the reason they dont like it is because it doesnt make any sound, so isnt manly or something, I said, well its electric, so you can always plug in some speakers and mount them to the back, or maybe get yourself some headphones with a continuous loop of engine sounds.

 

[dogman dan]

Purists will hate you for "cheating" getting up that MTB trail easier than they do. They won't be liking you because you are different. It's weird, when I skied lot, I used mountaineering skis and often spent 5-7 hours climbing a peak to ski down it in 30 min. And I was shunned by the folks riding the ski lifts for it! Go figure, obviously it was pure jealousy. They knew that 30 min run was far better skiing than they ever get from the lift, and hate you for getting it.

You don't have to be a purist to realize that a stealth bomber is not a "bike" as far as it's effect on a trail intended for non motorized vehicles. 2000w and above will definitely start eroding the trail more than non motorized bikes will, or ebikes with 1000w or less of assist will. It's easy to see this. Hit the throttle, see those rocks go flying? There you go. In many places those purists bust their asses maintaining MTB trails for no pay. Why should they like you making them work harder? But hating ebikes that don't throw rocks has no basis other than jealousy, or the way you have been riding.

Ride your stealth bomber anywhere it's legal to ride your quad or off road motorcycle, no problem. Take your high powered ebike and ride it someplace else. You are going to make all ebikes, however low powered banned. If already banned, you will make that ban of lower powered bikes stick.

As for hooligan riding, anybody can be an ass on the trails. Motor or no motor, pass people with courtesy. If you have a motor, it's not going to cost you shit to stop and let somebody coming up ride through when you are going down. Let them keep their momentum going on the way up. As you go up, you can wait for a good spot to pass slower riders. Why do you need to pass them in a way that pisses them off even more. They will already be jealous. Don't throw rocks in their face with your 3000w "bike".

 

[00Tj]

I totally agree with everything you have said except the fact that they "clearly" damage trails.

Ebike's don't damage trails.. Idiot's that hit the throttle to hard, ride crazy and throw rock's do!

When normal biker's hit the brake's to hard that rip's up trails more than ebikes do, my regen button is like ABS.. It slow's me down without locking up then I can use my brakes after that.

 

[crea2k]

The thing that I find completely ridiculous is the trail damage is nooooooooo way near the damage that horses do.....ploughed field come to mind......



I think as far as trail damage come it would be, in order of damage :

Tractors & 4x4 jeeps etc
Horses, Motocross bikes and quads
Ebikes
Bikes
Walkers

 

[Punx0r]

A Stealth Bomber is an electric motocross bike, not a bicycle.

A pedal cycle is a vehicle propelled by the effort of its human rider and I appreciate the purity in that. Assisted cycles push the definition a bit, but are OK with most if the rider is still doing the majority of the work, and appreciate the benefits to riders with disabilities or medical conditions.

When the motor is ~20, 30, 40X the output of the human rider it's no longer powered by the rider, any pedalling (if done at all) is token.

We need to be realistic. No one would expect to accepted if turning up at a soapbox derby in a tuned Honda Civic.

 

[dogman dan]

Well, to clarify, if your bike is throwing rocks, it's clearly damaging the trail. Maybe you could ride your powerful ebike without throwing rocks because you aren't a hooligan. I just find that throttle going to WOT when I ride with lots of power. 3000w brings out the hooligan in me, every time.

When I snuck my 3000w bike onto the blm trails on a weekday, I damaged the trail. So I took to riding that bike on roads where I was doing no harm to the trails that are posted no motor vehicles. Such roads still plentiful and open here, following power lines, gas lines, etc. So for me, lots of other places to ride anything I want. Lots of this riding starts 50 yards from my driveway. The blm trails are miles from my house.

I do still ride my 48v bike on those blm trails anytime, because this bike does meet the power guidelines to still be legally a "bike". It throws no rocks at WOT. And I still ride with courtesy, passing people politely on the way up, and yielding to those coming up when I'm going down so they don't have to break their cadence.

As for horses, nothing more miserable than walking a forest service trail popular with horse pack expeditions. Not just the poo, they churn that trail into soup for miles and miles. Only thing I have ever seen more damaging is a large jeep or 4x4. But even a very hot quad does less damage than a horse.

Far worse than the trails open to motor vehicles. But it is a fact, the trails open to dirt bikes are eroded down and pretty gnarly. Riding those trails will shake the crowns out of your teeth. Nobody wants stealth bombers or other ebikes capable of throwing rocks wrecking trails built at great effort by local volunteers.

 

[crea2k]

No one wants horses wrecking trails either, but I never see them give a damn when they plough up a trail, for some reason ebikes are a good scapegoat, when in fact there are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more horses and said horses do waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more damage.

 

[oobagooba]

good luck

 

[MadRhino]

For me it is clear:

If you ride in horse's trails, respect the horses
If you ride in bike trails, respect the bikes
If you ride in hiking trails, respect the walkers

If you ride in your own trails, f*** them all

 

[crea2k]

Bikes are getting more and more stealthy, soon the cops wont actually be able to tell which is which to stop them in the first place.

 

[ziltoid81]

Neverending story, if you have too much lifetime go arguing with the haters.......if not, do important things with your time.

Its senseless to argue with a guy who loves red, how good blue is.

 

[rider95]

I purpose built my E bike to get me out riding the trails agene due to my disability I can only stand and walk very short distances my E bike woks great on he trails , and I always stop and talk to other riders I am quick to say hi and often find my self at a trail intersection talking with other riders . Then someone will notice my bike all most with out fail followed by is that Elec? that's cool I then go on to explain and show them my handicap placard on the back of my bike and without my elec bike I couldn't be out enjoying the trail . 99% has been overwhelming positive even get a high 5 I was just down fl riding the Santos trail system was talking to a group and it turns out a middle aged woman in the group was a INMBA senior trail adviser those are the ppl responsible for the MTB Trails so be polite friendly from what I gather and have been told about my local trail is that If the bike can throw a roost it won't be allowed on the trails so my bike would be ok but this is all very new and scary stuff to the MT Bike clubs for sure there is a fight brewing .

 

[gogo]

Someone needs to sell anti-spin traction control. Then the 'unregulated' pedal bikes with their wheel-spinning capability will be the dubious culprits.

 

[rider95]

Please go on gogo

 

[crea2k]

They do, the adaptto controllers have traction control, my bikes got it.

 

[gogo]

Please go on gogo

BMW does traction/torque control on their motorcycles that is so good it can enable perfect wheelies while holding the throttle full-on. If the same anti-spin control regiment was implemented for ebikes, they might be even less injurious to trails than the hard bite of a hiker's boot heel or toe.

The next trail sign we might see: "Traction-controlled ebikes and bare feet only".