Crusher
1 mW
Apparently there is a By-Law in Vancouver banning assisted riding on Vancouver park pathways also.
http://www.jvbike.com/images/news/ParkBoardMemo.jpg
http://www.jvbike.com/images/news/ParkBoardMemo.jpg
Fight against ebikes heating up in Ontario
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mikereidis
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nutsandvolts said:
Yes. I've been looking for over a month now. I've seen probably 500 bikes at least on bike paths. Not one was visibly motorized with hub motor front or rear, and no visible non-hub motors. Everyone was pedalling. No self-builts, no Sears, no Cdn Tire etc.
Umm, I'm just remembering about 1.5 months ago, before my ebike, I DID see one electric scooter or something on the path in Aylmer Marina park. He was just futzing around at low speed for a few minutes. I've also seen two kids electric cars in that park last year. (You know, the tiny ones for "rich kids" that only do a few KMH).
Other than that, and my bike, no scooters on bike paths at all, and no ebikes either. Scooters on road are almost always gas powered and obvious from their noise. Probably saw a few electrics, but on road only.
Oh, yeah, saw a few kids with electric skateboards several years ago in Hull area on "multi-use path" (Really shouldn't say bike path.)
NCC signs in english have always said "No motorized vehicles". But the pictorial signs indicate "normal looking bikes" are OK, or indicate "motorcycle looking vehicles" are not OK.
IMO, main question is, are NCC bike paths reserved for human power only, or quiet low speed people and vehicles only ? Ebikes seem to force the question (if you let them). Then there are other questions if you say human power only. Like can I use a bike not recharged from outlet, but only recharged from hill and human regen ? IE a bike that only uses muscle power but gives you the battery uphill, and recharges downhill or from muscles when charge is needed. In theory, a completely mechanical contraption could do that too.
I should note that the law on Ontario seems to allow motorized wheelchairs everywhere pedestrians are allowed. I also see the police have special exemptions to ride Segways or whatever anywhere they want. Nice to have exemptions; not that a cop would ever get a ticket anyway.
Also, parks people are allowed to use low speed vehicles. Hmm, from what I've seen NCC parks people use gas motor vehicles to do maintenance and DO drive them (slowly) on multi-use paths.
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Lessss
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They are no taller longer or wider than a mountain bike with loaded paniers. Heavier? possibly
mikereidis
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Lessss said:
And I've ridden my recumbent with a 2 kid trailer with 2 kids. Long, wide and unwieldy. I jackknifed like a truck recently. Total weight about 300 pounds; If I weighed say, 270, it would be 400 pounds. Quite legal and legitimate AFAIK.
I ABSOLUTELY HATE, HATE, HATE those stupid center posts that seem intended to prevent cars from driving there. EVERY time I pull the 2 kid trailer I sweat and slow down at every one. One of these days I feel something really bad is going to happen if I miscalculate at the legal NCC path limit of 20 KMH. Even without a trailer they tick me off. I REALLY TRULY think it would be VERY rare for a car to go down those paths, whether intentional or not. Can't they think of something else, or just signs warning of $1000 fines or something ?
Heck, if they want to put security cameras there and catch any license plates etc. I'd be much happier with that, as much as I dislike surveillance. But have to admit too many people have been attacked and even killed on these paths and a few security cameras and panic phones might be in order, IMO.
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mikereidis
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nutsandvolts said:
I grabbed a few of those Jademark pamphlets at bike shop to cut out the "Federal Label" they reproduce there. White on black looks better. Yes, I'm "fully legal" with a "manufacturers label". I certify, blah, blah, 500 watts...
Wonder what the federal manuf penalty is for 501 watts ? And "off road" switches...Came to an NCC stop sign just before ANOTHER Gatineau cop at 1:00 this morning. I came to a full stop and raised my right hand. Does anyone even know that's the bike stop signal anymore ? Maybe thought I waved.
He came to a full stop and waved me forward. I pedalled on... 
Now which pocket was the contraband in ?
It looks like a 2 stroke, oil burning smoker, and it carries the stigma now and it will for a long time to come. Just my observation and opinion of the situation at hand
Yes, it's clean, quiet, other than the squeaking plastic covers ( *poke at Lesss with a pointy stick
)
A regular bicycle, with an e-kit will squeak by nice and stealthy until they become very popular and something happens.. but this will take a while.
Yes, it's clean, quiet, other than the squeaking plastic covers ( *poke at Lesss with a pointy stick
) A regular bicycle, with an e-kit will squeak by nice and stealthy until they become very popular and something happens.. but this will take a while.
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nutsandvolts said:I do not advocate speeds above 32kph or power above 500 watts.
That's totally inappropriate. It's lewd, lascivious, salacious, outrageous!
Not to mention delicious. 8)
mikereidis
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nutsandvolts said:
You don't think I'd stop without a cop in sight do you ? I'm not THAT law abiding, and such minor law breaking amounts to legitimate political protest/civil disobedience that I feel OBLIGATED to perform, for love of country and freedom and human rights etc.
Same with my off-road switches. I can do what I want on my property as far as speed goes.Heck, I gave up coming to a full stop at signs in my car sometime this year. Got so ticked off at my fellow Quebec drivers I said to heck with it and decided to join the crowd. Was previously religious about full stops; now I'm doing my part to reduce world oil consumption and greenhouse gases by easing through stops. If the cops/politicians cared about the issue, they would crack down on rolling stops and they don't; they do their silly radar traps and red light cameras.
When a cop, and especially a Quebec cop is around though, I'm super-legal of course. Can't even get away with 10 KMH over, never mind 20 KMH here, when they have a nice efficient speed trap and quotas to meet. Cops wore jeans and camo outfits several months back over the quotas.
And when it's 1 AM on an NCC path where ebikes aren't allowed, and in Quebec, and I'm wearing a balaclava, and other factors too numerous to mention; time to be super-duper-legal.
I wonder if NCC stop signs even have any legal force, except the almost none that parking lot signs have.
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johnrobholmes
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The Escooters are more intimidating to look at rolling by on a bike path. They take up more visual room, although the average cyclist will be about the same path width because of the handlebars or shoulders. I don't agree with the pedal type being banned on multi- use paths, but I doubt that people want something that looks like a "vehicle" on the walking/bike paths. They only want to see bikes and people walking, or the occasional kid on a push scooter.
mikereidis
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johnrobholmes said:
Don't forget all the inline skaters. I note they regularly push their skates over the dividing line; most do not as I pass, but some do.
Yes, I agree, bigger looking is more intimidating. My recumbent with 2 kid trailer is probably intimidating and I saw some mention of big trailers in that context in a recent Sun article.
If it looks like a vehicle, even more intimidating, yes. I've had thoughts of pushing the limits between bicycle and vehicle; but it'd probably get me flack on the paths. With a full fairing and 1 or 2 "push down training type wheels", a bike would act and IMO intimidate more like a 4 wheeled vehicle. One place I read about the ebike definition as having only 2 wheels, but somewhere else it said less than 4 wheels, so I'm not sure if tricycles are OK or not, but 4 wheels is definitely out. But a fold down 4th wheel, could be for "off road use" only.
Been reading some related stuff at Cycle Ontario recently. Latest archives are here: http://www.cycleontario.ca/pipermail/discuss/2008-September/thread.html
Here's a post on an Ottawa local ebike accident I hadn't heard of otherwise: http://www.cycleontario.ca/pipermail/discuss/2008-August/002122.html
Innes Road closed after accident involving electric bike
Man in mid-60s sent to hospital
Geoff Nixon, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Saturday, August 30, 2008
OTTAWA - A collision between an electric bicycle and a four-door sedan in
front of the Ottawa-Carleton Detention Centre sent a man in his mid-60s to
hospital in critical condition on Saturday.
.....
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mikereidis
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Finally saw an ebike today. Shwinn Izip from Cdn. Tire. Guy was in his 50's or 60's and stopped at local Salvation Army. He's quite happy with it and pedals most of the time only using power for assistance.
He rides NCC paths too, and wasn't aware of recent clarification; but didn't seem too concerned.
He rides NCC paths too, and wasn't aware of recent clarification; but didn't seem too concerned.
Lessss
1 MW
http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/tp/tp3322/2006/page9.htm
I wonder how long until there is a seperate category for PAB's?
Notice that it is more dangerous to walk!
I wonder how long until there is a seperate category for PAB's?
Notice that it is more dangerous to walk!
Beowolf
1 µW
Ya stole one of our Flyers for a sticker?
why not just call and ask for 1 lol
as for the bikes on the Trails, average Canadian tire mountain bikes handle bars are wider that what you called our scooters.
The spandex jockies going 40-50 on the trails are the Problem, the Whole NCC problem began on a mistake, the spoke person at the time was told to handle it, she walked outside looked at 2 bikes 1 a vespa and 2 an ebike. she only looked and got mad towards vespa, in a CLOSED ncc+city meeting, they we're asked to find and show the exhaust pipe and gass tank, as in the interview with Myself i was asked by Jean Charbineau,
Charles how many CC's does it have and How much gas does your tank hold?
i replied well, "laugh" no cc as in Ncc, and why do you need me to grab a can of gas for you as this plugs into a 110 volt wall.
the case was dropped and due to public embarrassment it was not recapped to news suttle letters sent out
i have them posted on "ebikes in Ottawa" on facebook or i can forward them to you. we are ALLOWED on the trails.
and 2 things i give as advice to my fellow e-riders if your bike looks like a scooter get a Plate showing your an ebike
anyone wanting my assistance or help customer or not let me know
non work email beowolf33@gmail.com
why not just call and ask for 1 lol
as for the bikes on the Trails, average Canadian tire mountain bikes handle bars are wider that what you called our scooters.
The spandex jockies going 40-50 on the trails are the Problem, the Whole NCC problem began on a mistake, the spoke person at the time was told to handle it, she walked outside looked at 2 bikes 1 a vespa and 2 an ebike. she only looked and got mad towards vespa, in a CLOSED ncc+city meeting, they we're asked to find and show the exhaust pipe and gass tank, as in the interview with Myself i was asked by Jean Charbineau,
Charles how many CC's does it have and How much gas does your tank hold?
i replied well, "laugh" no cc as in Ncc, and why do you need me to grab a can of gas for you as this plugs into a 110 volt wall.
the case was dropped and due to public embarrassment it was not recapped to news suttle letters sent out
i have them posted on "ebikes in Ottawa" on facebook or i can forward them to you. we are ALLOWED on the trails.
and 2 things i give as advice to my fellow e-riders if your bike looks like a scooter get a Plate showing your an ebike
anyone wanting my assistance or help customer or not let me know
non work email beowolf33@gmail.com
Its not only the cities who are against ebikes, I have two trikes , homebuilt, both are hybred, human and electric powered,
here are some emails between me and the MTO
Thank you for your e-mail.Can you please send us the pictures? -----Original Message-----From: Rodney Shears [mailto:rodneyshears@hotmail.com] Sent: September 12, 2008 9:52 AMTo: MTOINFO, St. Catharines (MTO)Subject: E-Bikes - SM Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted byRodney Shears (rodneyshears@hotmail.com) on Friday, September 12, 2008at 09:51:46--------------------------------------------------------------------------- subject: E-Bikes origin: Internet, MTO INFO mail: 264 Watson Ave. Espanola ON. P5E 1B6 phone: 705-869-2435 comments: I have built delta trike, it is recombent style with over theseat handle bars. Main power is 12 speed bicycle gears( peddle power).It has an electric hub motor (200 watts) and will reach speeds of 25Kmph on electric alone( 35-40kmph with peddle assist.My problem is thatI do not feel safe driving it on the TCH. in Northern ON. (NO bicycle lanes, to much danger of being rear ended.)If the law werechanged to allow me to travel this vehicle at the speed limit or bicyclelanes were built I would be able to park my car and would be able tocomute to work ( 60KM.) on the trike. This trike is extreamly stable (Itwill turn 360 degrees in less than 25 ft and is almost impossable toflip.) and safe. With the recombent long wheel base style and over theseat handlebars it is impossable to be throwen over the handlebars,which is the major cause of injurys on bicycles. If I get a reply in regular email format I will send pictures.
I did send the pictures here is the response.
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From: MTOINFO, St. Catharines (MTO) (MTOINFO@ontario.ca)
You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe
Sent: November 10, 2008 12:55:25 PM
To: rodneyshears@hotmail.com
Dear Mr. Shears: Thank you for your e-mail about the delta trike you have built, whichyou also suggest is a power-assisted bicycle, also known as an electricbicycle ("e-bike"). For your information, Transport Canada, the agency responsible forestablishing vehicle standards and requirements for all vehicles thatare manufactured or imported into Canada, has defined a power-assistedbicycle as a vehicle that has steering handlebars and is equipped with pedals;o is capable of being propelled by muscular power;o cannot travel on more than three wheels in contact with theground; o has one or more electric motors that have, singly or incombination, a power output rating of 500W or less and is incapable ofproviding further assistance when the bicycle attains a speed of32 km/h on level ground; ando bears a permanently affixed label by the manufacturer stating inboth official languages that the vehicle conforms to the federaldefinition of a power-assisted bicycle. Ontario began a three-year pilot on October 3, 2006 to evaluate howsafely electric bicycles ("e-bikes") can be safely integrated with othervehicles and pedestrians. For its duration, the pilot treats e-bikeslike conventional bicycles and e-bikes can be legally operated onOntario's roads where conventional bicycles are allowed. The onlyexceptions are that the riders must be 16 years of age or older and allriders must wear an approved bicycle helmet. For the purposes of the e-bike pilot, the province adopted the federaldefinition of a power-assisted bicycle. As a result, the requirementfor a manufacturer's compliance label as required by Transport Canadarenders home built e-bikes ineligible to be operated under Ontario'spower-assisted ("e-bike") pilot. For this reason, your device would notbe allowed on public roads under the e-bike pilot program. As part of our three-year pilot, the ministry will evaluate how safelythe e-bike can integrate with other road users and whether we need to bemore specific about vehicle requirements. No decisions have been madeat this time. The province is in the process of asking for feedbackfrom various stakeholders including environmental groups, bicyclinggroups, e-bike retailers, manufacturers, and importers, law enforcement,municipalities, safety advocates, and other ministries. Once the evaluation has been completed, any proposed changes to thecurrent operating requirements for e-bikes will be posted for publicfeedback on the Service Ontario, Ministry of Government Services,Regulatory Registry website, http://www.ontariocanada.com/registry/. Weexpect to have any proposed changes ready to post on the RegulatoryRegistry early in the new year, at which time you may submit yourcomments. For further information on his and other vehicle types, I would ask thatyou check our ministry's website:http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/emerging. Thank you again for writing. Sincerely, Shazina(On behalf of Mutiisa) Customer Service Office
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From: MTOINFO, St. Catharines (MTO) (MTOINFO@ontario.ca)
You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe
Sent: November 10, 2008 12:55:25 PM
To: rodneyshears@hotmail.com
Dear Mr. Shears: Thank you for your e-mail about the delta trike you have built, whichyou also suggest is a power-assisted bicycle, also known as an electricbicycle ("e-bike"). For your information, Transport Canada, the agency responsible forestablishing vehicle standards and requirements for all vehicles thatare manufactured or imported into Canada, has defined a power-assistedbicycle as a vehicle that has steering handlebars and is equipped with pedals;o is capable of being propelled by muscular power;o cannot travel on more than three wheels in contact with theground; o has one or more electric motors that have, singly or incombination, a power output rating of 500W or less and is incapable ofproviding further assistance when the bicycle attains a speed of32 km/h on level ground; ando bears a permanently affixed label by the manufacturer stating inboth official languages that the vehicle conforms to the federaldefinition of a power-assisted bicycle. Ontario began a three-year pilot on October 3, 2006 to evaluate howsafely electric bicycles ("e-bikes") can be safely integrated with othervehicles and pedestrians. For its duration, the pilot treats e-bikeslike conventional bicycles and e-bikes can be legally operated onOntario's roads where conventional bicycles are allowed. The onlyexceptions are that the riders must be 16 years of age or older and allriders must wear an approved bicycle helmet. For the purposes of the e-bike pilot, the province adopted the federaldefinition of a power-assisted bicycle. As a result, the requirementfor a manufacturer's compliance label as required by Transport Canadarenders home built e-bikes ineligible to be operated under Ontario'spower-assisted ("e-bike") pilot. For this reason, your device would notbe allowed on public roads under the e-bike pilot program. As part of our three-year pilot, the ministry will evaluate how safelythe e-bike can integrate with other road users and whether we need to bemore specific about vehicle requirements. No decisions have been madeat this time. The province is in the process of asking for feedbackfrom various stakeholders including environmental groups, bicyclinggroups, e-bike retailers, manufacturers, and importers, law enforcement,municipalities, safety advocates, and other ministries. Once the evaluation has been completed, any proposed changes to thecurrent operating requirements for e-bikes will be posted for publicfeedback on the Service Ontario, Ministry of Government Services,Regulatory Registry website, http://www.ontariocanada.com/registry/. Weexpect to have any proposed changes ready to post on the RegulatoryRegistry early in the new year, at which time you may submit yourcomments. For further information on his and other vehicle types, I would ask thatyou check our ministry's website:http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/emerging. Thank you again for writing. Sincerely, Shazina(On behalf of Mutiisa) Customer Service Office
My response was that the trikes were legal under the law, they do have stickers attached by the manufacture, me, and the main motive of power is the peddles, I have not received any more response but I beleive that the person who wrote the last email should check Webster's for manufacturer
If at the end of this pilot study the ban the ebike we should do a protest ride on the ebikes from Kenora to Qween's park with as many bikes as we can get together.
here are some emails between me and the MTO
Thank you for your e-mail.Can you please send us the pictures? -----Original Message-----From: Rodney Shears [mailto:rodneyshears@hotmail.com] Sent: September 12, 2008 9:52 AMTo: MTOINFO, St. Catharines (MTO)Subject: E-Bikes - SM Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted byRodney Shears (rodneyshears@hotmail.com) on Friday, September 12, 2008at 09:51:46--------------------------------------------------------------------------- subject: E-Bikes origin: Internet, MTO INFO mail: 264 Watson Ave. Espanola ON. P5E 1B6 phone: 705-869-2435 comments: I have built delta trike, it is recombent style with over theseat handle bars. Main power is 12 speed bicycle gears( peddle power).It has an electric hub motor (200 watts) and will reach speeds of 25Kmph on electric alone( 35-40kmph with peddle assist.My problem is thatI do not feel safe driving it on the TCH. in Northern ON. (NO bicycle lanes, to much danger of being rear ended.)If the law werechanged to allow me to travel this vehicle at the speed limit or bicyclelanes were built I would be able to park my car and would be able tocomute to work ( 60KM.) on the trike. This trike is extreamly stable (Itwill turn 360 degrees in less than 25 ft and is almost impossable toflip.) and safe. With the recombent long wheel base style and over theseat handlebars it is impossable to be throwen over the handlebars,which is the major cause of injurys on bicycles. If I get a reply in regular email format I will send pictures.
I did send the pictures here is the response.
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FW: E-Bikes - SMâ€Â
From: MTOINFO, St. Catharines (MTO) (MTOINFO@ontario.ca)
You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe
Sent: November 10, 2008 12:55:25 PM
To: rodneyshears@hotmail.com
Dear Mr. Shears: Thank you for your e-mail about the delta trike you have built, whichyou also suggest is a power-assisted bicycle, also known as an electricbicycle ("e-bike"). For your information, Transport Canada, the agency responsible forestablishing vehicle standards and requirements for all vehicles thatare manufactured or imported into Canada, has defined a power-assistedbicycle as a vehicle that
has steering handlebars and is equipped with pedals;o is capable of being propelled by muscular power;o cannot travel on more than three wheels in contact with theground; o has one or more electric motors that have, singly or incombination, a power output rating of 500W or less and is incapable ofproviding further assistance when the bicycle attains a speed of32 km/h on level ground; ando bears a permanently affixed label by the manufacturer stating inboth official languages that the vehicle conforms to the federaldefinition of a power-assisted bicycle. Ontario began a three-year pilot on October 3, 2006 to evaluate howsafely electric bicycles ("e-bikes") can be safely integrated with othervehicles and pedestrians. For its duration, the pilot treats e-bikeslike conventional bicycles and e-bikes can be legally operated onOntario's roads where conventional bicycles are allowed. The onlyexceptions are that the riders must be 16 years of age or older and allriders must wear an approved bicycle helmet. For the purposes of the e-bike pilot, the province adopted the federaldefinition of a power-assisted bicycle. As a result, the requirementfor a manufacturer's compliance label as required by Transport Canadarenders home built e-bikes ineligible to be operated under Ontario'spower-assisted ("e-bike") pilot. For this reason, your device would notbe allowed on public roads under the e-bike pilot program. As part of our three-year pilot, the ministry will evaluate how safelythe e-bike can integrate with other road users and whether we need to bemore specific about vehicle requirements. No decisions have been madeat this time. The province is in the process of asking for feedbackfrom various stakeholders including environmental groups, bicyclinggroups, e-bike retailers, manufacturers, and importers, law enforcement,municipalities, safety advocates, and other ministries. Once the evaluation has been completed, any proposed changes to thecurrent operating requirements for e-bikes will be posted for publicfeedback on the Service Ontario, Ministry of Government Services,Regulatory Registry website, http://www.ontariocanada.com/registry/. Weexpect to have any proposed changes ready to post on the RegulatoryRegistry early in the new year, at which time you may submit yourcomments. For further information on his and other vehicle types, I would ask thatyou check our ministry's website:http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/emerging. Thank you again for writing. Sincerely, Shazina(On behalf of Mutiisa) Customer Service OfficeReply
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FW: E-Bikes - SMâ€Â
From: MTOINFO, St. Catharines (MTO) (MTOINFO@ontario.ca)
You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe
Sent: November 10, 2008 12:55:25 PM
To: rodneyshears@hotmail.com
Dear Mr. Shears: Thank you for your e-mail about the delta trike you have built, whichyou also suggest is a power-assisted bicycle, also known as an electricbicycle ("e-bike"). For your information, Transport Canada, the agency responsible forestablishing vehicle standards and requirements for all vehicles thatare manufactured or imported into Canada, has defined a power-assistedbicycle as a vehicle that
has steering handlebars and is equipped with pedals;o is capable of being propelled by muscular power;o cannot travel on more than three wheels in contact with theground; o has one or more electric motors that have, singly or incombination, a power output rating of 500W or less and is incapable ofproviding further assistance when the bicycle attains a speed of32 km/h on level ground; ando bears a permanently affixed label by the manufacturer stating inboth official languages that the vehicle conforms to the federaldefinition of a power-assisted bicycle. Ontario began a three-year pilot on October 3, 2006 to evaluate howsafely electric bicycles ("e-bikes") can be safely integrated with othervehicles and pedestrians. For its duration, the pilot treats e-bikeslike conventional bicycles and e-bikes can be legally operated onOntario's roads where conventional bicycles are allowed. The onlyexceptions are that the riders must be 16 years of age or older and allriders must wear an approved bicycle helmet. For the purposes of the e-bike pilot, the province adopted the federaldefinition of a power-assisted bicycle. As a result, the requirementfor a manufacturer's compliance label as required by Transport Canadarenders home built e-bikes ineligible to be operated under Ontario'spower-assisted ("e-bike") pilot. For this reason, your device would notbe allowed on public roads under the e-bike pilot program. As part of our three-year pilot, the ministry will evaluate how safelythe e-bike can integrate with other road users and whether we need to bemore specific about vehicle requirements. No decisions have been madeat this time. The province is in the process of asking for feedbackfrom various stakeholders including environmental groups, bicyclinggroups, e-bike retailers, manufacturers, and importers, law enforcement,municipalities, safety advocates, and other ministries. Once the evaluation has been completed, any proposed changes to thecurrent operating requirements for e-bikes will be posted for publicfeedback on the Service Ontario, Ministry of Government Services,Regulatory Registry website, http://www.ontariocanada.com/registry/. Weexpect to have any proposed changes ready to post on the RegulatoryRegistry early in the new year, at which time you may submit yourcomments. For further information on his and other vehicle types, I would ask thatyou check our ministry's website:http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/emerging. Thank you again for writing. Sincerely, Shazina(On behalf of Mutiisa) Customer Service OfficeMy response was that the trikes were legal under the law, they do have stickers attached by the manufacture, me, and the main motive of power is the peddles, I have not received any more response but I beleive that the person who wrote the last email should check Webster's for manufacturer
If at the end of this pilot study the ban the ebike we should do a protest ride on the ebikes from Kenora to Qween's park with as many bikes as we can get together.
philf
1 kW
Interesting reading, here...
I just have to comment on the link that nutsandvolts posted, though, regarding quadracycles... In the very first paragraph defining "Quadracycle Legalities", the following statement appears:
"This is because bicycles include only muscle-powered vehicles that have one, two or three wheels."
I was just given pause to remember Douglas Adams - the first author I remember promoting a book as the fourth in a trilogy...
I just have to comment on the link that nutsandvolts posted, though, regarding quadracycles... In the very first paragraph defining "Quadracycle Legalities", the following statement appears:
"This is because bicycles include only muscle-powered vehicles that have one, two or three wheels."
I was just given pause to remember Douglas Adams - the first author I remember promoting a book as the fourth in a trilogy...
OH BS!!!
sounds to me like it's time for some d cell in frame battery pack hiding, rear hub motors, and fake peddaling to b done... and someone clothsline that rikidy old s.o.b. if they see him...
i dunno if he's just cranky or he really wants the gas gusslers of the world to destroy earth and everything on it.
sounds to me like it's time for some d cell in frame battery pack hiding, rear hub motors, and fake peddaling to b done... and someone clothsline that rikidy old s.o.b. if they see him...
i dunno if he's just cranky or he really wants the gas gusslers of the world to destroy earth and everything on it.
Lock
100 MW
Hard for me to understand all this but there is a Bill floating
around the Ontario Legislature that appears to "tighten up" loose
ends with Ontario`s regulation of power-assist bikes...
Copy of the Bill here:
"An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act and to make consequential
amendments to two amending acts"
http://www.ontla.on.ca/bills/bills-
files/39_Parliament/Session1/b126.pdf
Under "Miscellaneous Amendments":
"The definition of "bicycle" is amended to include power-assisted
bicycles, which are themselves defined. A power-assisted bicycle is a
bicycle with a power assist, as defined in federal regulations, but
it must still be capable of being propelled solely by muscular power.
Section 38 of the Act, which prohibits persons under 16 from driving
a motor-assisted bicycle, is amended to apply to power-assisted
bicycles as well. Sections 62 and 64 are amended to address the
requirements respecting lights, reflectors and lamps for power-
assisted bicycles. New section 103.1 provides for regulations
establishing additional equipment requirements and other requirements
and standards for power-assisted bicycles. New section 103.1 also
requires a person to wear a motorcycle helmet or bicycle helmet while
driving a power-assisted bicycle. A consequential amendment is made
to section 104."
and
"In the current section 104 of the Act, the Lieutenant Governor in
Council may make regulations respecting helmets. This is amended to
authorize the Minister of Transportation to make the regulations."
and
"PART I
AMENDMENTS TO THE HIGHWAY TRAFFIC ACT
(2) The definition of "bicycle" in subsection 1 (1) ofthe Act is
repealed and the following substituted:
"bicycle" includes a tricycle, a unicycle and a power-assisted
bicycle but does not include a motor-assisted bicycle; ("bicyclette")"
and:
"(5) The definition of "motor vehicle" in subsection 1(1) of the Act
is repealed and the following substituted:
"motor vehicle" includes an automobile, a motorcycle, a motor-
assisted bicycle unless otherwise indicated in this Act, and any
other vehicle propelled or driven otherwise than by muscular power,
but does not include a street car or other motor vehicle running only
upon rails, a power-assisted bicycle, a motorized snow vehicle, a
traction engine, a farm tractor, a self-propelled implement of
husbandry or a road-building machine;("véhicule automobile")"
and:
"(7) Subsection 1 (1) of the Act is amended by adding the following
definition:
"power-assisted bicycle" means a bicycle that,
(a) is a power-assisted bicycle as defined in subsection2 (1) of the
Motor Vehicle Safety Regulationsmade under the Motor Vehicle Safety
Act (Canada),
(b) bears a label affixed by the manufacturer in com-pliance with the
definition referred to in clause (a),
(c) has affixed to it pedals that are operable, and
(d) is capable of being propelled solely by muscularpower;
("bicyclette assistée")"
and:
"Minimum age to drive motor-assisted, power-assisted bicycle
38. (1) No person under the age of 16 years shall driveor operate a
motor-assisted bicycle or power-assisted bi-cycle on a highway."
and:
"Same
(2) No person who is the owner or is in possession or control of a
motor-assisted bicycle or power-assisted bicycle shall permit a
person who is under the age of 16 years to ride on, drive or operate
the motor-assisted bicycle or power-assisted bicycle on a highway."
and:
"26. (1) Subsection 62 (17) of the Act is repealed and the following
substituted:
Lights and reflectors on bicycles, etc.
(17) When on a highway at any time from one-half hour before sunset
to one-half hour after sunrise and at any other time when, due to
insufficient light or unfavourable atmospheric conditions, persons
and vehicles on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance
of 150 metres or less, every motor-assisted bicycle and bicycle
(other than a unicycle) shall carry a lighted lamp displaying a white
or amber light on its front and a lighted lamp displaying a red light
or a reflector approved by the Ministry on its rear, and in addition
white reflective material shall be placed on its front forks, and red
reflective material covering a surface of not less than 250
millimetres in length and 25 millimetres in width shall be place on
its rear."
and:
"27. (1) Subsection 64 (2) of the Act is repealed and the following
substituted:
Motorcycles, etc.
(2) Every motorcycle, motor-assisted bicycle or power-assisted
bicycle when being driven on a highway shall be equipped with at
least two braking systems, each with a separate means of application,
with one effective on the front wheel and one effective on the rear
wheel."
and:
"(2) Subsection 64(4) of the Act is repealed and the following
substituted:
Meaning of bicycle
(4) In subsection (3),
"bicycle" does not include a unicycle, tricycle or power-assisted
bicycle."
and:
"29. Subsection 75 (2) of the Act is repealed and the following
substituted:
Same
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to,
(a) a motor-assisted bicycle with an attached motorthat is driven
entirely by electricity; or
(b) a motor vehicle that is driven entirely by electricity."
and:
"33. Part VI of the Act is amended by adding the following section:
Power-assisted bicycles
Equipment, requirements
103.1 (1) Every power-assisted bicycle shall have the prescribed
equipment and conform to the prescribed requirements and standards.
Helmet requirement
(2) No person shall ride on, drive or operate a power-assisted
bicycle on a highway unless the person is wearing a helmet as
required by subsection 104(1) or (2.1).
Regulations
(3) The Minister may make regulations,
(a) prescribing equipment for power-assisted bicycles;
(b) prescribing requirements and standards for power-assisted
bicycles;
(c) exempting any class of power-assisted bicycles from subsection
(1) or from any provision of the regulations made under this
subsection and pre-scribing conditions and circumstances for any such
exemption."
and:
"34.(1) Subsection 104(2.1) of the Act is repealed and the following
substituted:
Bicyclists to wear helmet
(2.1) Subject to subsection 103.1 (2), no person shall ride on or
operate a bicycle on a highway unless the person is wearing a bicycle
helmet that complies with the regulations and the chin strap of the
helmet is securely fastened under the chin."
and, finally (if I understand correctly):
"35. Section 106 of the Act is amended by adding the following
subsection:
Offence
(8.3) Every person who contravenes or fails to comply with this
section or a regulation made under this section is guilty of an
offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $200
and not more than $1,000."
...anyway...
My snips from pending legislation... any armchair lawyers here can
simplify? Clarify?
I dropped in on the Gov today (Queens Park) and staff had no idea of
any debate etc today for these changes...
Turns out (as far as I can figure) things have been turned over to
the Standing Committee on General Government...
and that from here:
http://www.ontla.on.ca/committee-proceedings/committee-hearings-
notices/files_html/Bills%20118%20&%20126%20Adrevised2-%20English.htm
Those who ... wish to comment ... may send written submissions to the
Committee Clerk at the address below by 5:00 p.m. on Monday, March
23, 2009.
Room 1405, Whitney Block,
Queen's Park, Toronto, ON M7A 1A2
tks
Lock
around the Ontario Legislature that appears to "tighten up" loose
ends with Ontario`s regulation of power-assist bikes...
Copy of the Bill here:
"An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act and to make consequential
amendments to two amending acts"
http://www.ontla.on.ca/bills/bills-
files/39_Parliament/Session1/b126.pdf
Under "Miscellaneous Amendments":
"The definition of "bicycle" is amended to include power-assisted
bicycles, which are themselves defined. A power-assisted bicycle is a
bicycle with a power assist, as defined in federal regulations, but
it must still be capable of being propelled solely by muscular power.
Section 38 of the Act, which prohibits persons under 16 from driving
a motor-assisted bicycle, is amended to apply to power-assisted
bicycles as well. Sections 62 and 64 are amended to address the
requirements respecting lights, reflectors and lamps for power-
assisted bicycles. New section 103.1 provides for regulations
establishing additional equipment requirements and other requirements
and standards for power-assisted bicycles. New section 103.1 also
requires a person to wear a motorcycle helmet or bicycle helmet while
driving a power-assisted bicycle. A consequential amendment is made
to section 104."
and
"In the current section 104 of the Act, the Lieutenant Governor in
Council may make regulations respecting helmets. This is amended to
authorize the Minister of Transportation to make the regulations."
and
"PART I
AMENDMENTS TO THE HIGHWAY TRAFFIC ACT
(2) The definition of "bicycle" in subsection 1 (1) ofthe Act is
repealed and the following substituted:
"bicycle" includes a tricycle, a unicycle and a power-assisted
bicycle but does not include a motor-assisted bicycle; ("bicyclette")"
and:
"(5) The definition of "motor vehicle" in subsection 1(1) of the Act
is repealed and the following substituted:
"motor vehicle" includes an automobile, a motorcycle, a motor-
assisted bicycle unless otherwise indicated in this Act, and any
other vehicle propelled or driven otherwise than by muscular power,
but does not include a street car or other motor vehicle running only
upon rails, a power-assisted bicycle, a motorized snow vehicle, a
traction engine, a farm tractor, a self-propelled implement of
husbandry or a road-building machine;("véhicule automobile")"
and:
"(7) Subsection 1 (1) of the Act is amended by adding the following
definition:
"power-assisted bicycle" means a bicycle that,
(a) is a power-assisted bicycle as defined in subsection2 (1) of the
Motor Vehicle Safety Regulationsmade under the Motor Vehicle Safety
Act (Canada),
(b) bears a label affixed by the manufacturer in com-pliance with the
definition referred to in clause (a),
(c) has affixed to it pedals that are operable, and
(d) is capable of being propelled solely by muscularpower;
("bicyclette assistée")"
and:
"Minimum age to drive motor-assisted, power-assisted bicycle
38. (1) No person under the age of 16 years shall driveor operate a
motor-assisted bicycle or power-assisted bi-cycle on a highway."
and:
"Same
(2) No person who is the owner or is in possession or control of a
motor-assisted bicycle or power-assisted bicycle shall permit a
person who is under the age of 16 years to ride on, drive or operate
the motor-assisted bicycle or power-assisted bicycle on a highway."
and:
"26. (1) Subsection 62 (17) of the Act is repealed and the following
substituted:
Lights and reflectors on bicycles, etc.
(17) When on a highway at any time from one-half hour before sunset
to one-half hour after sunrise and at any other time when, due to
insufficient light or unfavourable atmospheric conditions, persons
and vehicles on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance
of 150 metres or less, every motor-assisted bicycle and bicycle
(other than a unicycle) shall carry a lighted lamp displaying a white
or amber light on its front and a lighted lamp displaying a red light
or a reflector approved by the Ministry on its rear, and in addition
white reflective material shall be placed on its front forks, and red
reflective material covering a surface of not less than 250
millimetres in length and 25 millimetres in width shall be place on
its rear."
and:
"27. (1) Subsection 64 (2) of the Act is repealed and the following
substituted:
Motorcycles, etc.
(2) Every motorcycle, motor-assisted bicycle or power-assisted
bicycle when being driven on a highway shall be equipped with at
least two braking systems, each with a separate means of application,
with one effective on the front wheel and one effective on the rear
wheel."
and:
"(2) Subsection 64(4) of the Act is repealed and the following
substituted:
Meaning of bicycle
(4) In subsection (3),
"bicycle" does not include a unicycle, tricycle or power-assisted
bicycle."
and:
"29. Subsection 75 (2) of the Act is repealed and the following
substituted:
Same
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to,
(a) a motor-assisted bicycle with an attached motorthat is driven
entirely by electricity; or
(b) a motor vehicle that is driven entirely by electricity."
and:
"33. Part VI of the Act is amended by adding the following section:
Power-assisted bicycles
Equipment, requirements
103.1 (1) Every power-assisted bicycle shall have the prescribed
equipment and conform to the prescribed requirements and standards.
Helmet requirement
(2) No person shall ride on, drive or operate a power-assisted
bicycle on a highway unless the person is wearing a helmet as
required by subsection 104(1) or (2.1).
Regulations
(3) The Minister may make regulations,
(a) prescribing equipment for power-assisted bicycles;
(b) prescribing requirements and standards for power-assisted
bicycles;
(c) exempting any class of power-assisted bicycles from subsection
(1) or from any provision of the regulations made under this
subsection and pre-scribing conditions and circumstances for any such
exemption."
and:
"34.(1) Subsection 104(2.1) of the Act is repealed and the following
substituted:
Bicyclists to wear helmet
(2.1) Subject to subsection 103.1 (2), no person shall ride on or
operate a bicycle on a highway unless the person is wearing a bicycle
helmet that complies with the regulations and the chin strap of the
helmet is securely fastened under the chin."
and, finally (if I understand correctly):
"35. Section 106 of the Act is amended by adding the following
subsection:
Offence
(8.3) Every person who contravenes or fails to comply with this
section or a regulation made under this section is guilty of an
offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $200
and not more than $1,000."
...anyway...
My snips from pending legislation... any armchair lawyers here can
simplify? Clarify?
I dropped in on the Gov today (Queens Park) and staff had no idea of
any debate etc today for these changes...
Turns out (as far as I can figure) things have been turned over to
the Standing Committee on General Government...
and that from here:
http://www.ontla.on.ca/committee-proceedings/committee-hearings-
notices/files_html/Bills%20118%20&%20126%20Adrevised2-%20English.htm
Those who ... wish to comment ... may send written submissions to the
Committee Clerk at the address below by 5:00 p.m. on Monday, March
23, 2009.
Room 1405, Whitney Block,
Queen's Park, Toronto, ON M7A 1A2
tks
Lock
Lock
100 MW
RE: [TorontoEVA] Ontario Bill 126
Three things I regret...
1) The age limit.
This is like the white line painted on a pole at the door of a bus, where once
young ppl reach a certain height they pay full fare... A expedient for
administration only. Many young ppl (under 16) have driven my vehicles in a
responsible fashion...
2) Helmets.
I will accept this when all vehicle drivers are required to wear helmets. Next
will be elbow and knee pads. The Dutch and other "bike cultures" must laugh at
us...
3) Pedals
If the legislation said "... can be propelled by muscle power alone" this would
pave the way for kick bikes. In my experience when you add power-assist
kick-bikes can be more practical and safer than the Victorian pedal bike.
Suffice to say that these legislations are written by ppl who if they were
presented with the pedal bicycle today as "new technology" they would ban them
as "unsafe" on our roads... a threat to the 20th-century motorized carriage.
Everything "new" must be shoe-horned into a 20th-century perspective that is
just killing us.
tks
Lock
--- On Wed, 2/25/09, EVsolutions <evsolutions@rogers.com> wrote:
From: EVsolutions <evsolutions@rogers.com>
Subject: RE: [TorontoEVA] Ontario Bill 126
To: TorontoEVA@yahoogroups.com
Received: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 7:10 PM
The smart thing to do is pass it in May piggybacked onto Shai Agassi and Better
Place
joshua goldberg
evsolutions@ rogers.com
www.evsolutions. net
http://groups. yahoo.com/ groups/e- motor-assist
-----Original Message-----
From: TorontoEVA@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:TorontoEVA@ yahoogroups. com] On
Behalf Of Juergen Weichert
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 6:03 PM
To: TorontoEVA@yahoogro ups.com
Subject: Re: [TorontoEVA] Ontario Bill 126
More than "tighten up" - this is the bill that makes e-bikes permanently
legal. We need this to pass before the pilot project runs out.
Juergen
lockhughes wrote:
>
> Hard for me to understand all this but there is a Bill floating
Three things I regret...
1) The age limit.
This is like the white line painted on a pole at the door of a bus, where once
young ppl reach a certain height they pay full fare... A expedient for
administration only. Many young ppl (under 16) have driven my vehicles in a
responsible fashion...
2) Helmets.
I will accept this when all vehicle drivers are required to wear helmets. Next
will be elbow and knee pads. The Dutch and other "bike cultures" must laugh at
us...
3) Pedals
If the legislation said "... can be propelled by muscle power alone" this would
pave the way for kick bikes. In my experience when you add power-assist
kick-bikes can be more practical and safer than the Victorian pedal bike.
Suffice to say that these legislations are written by ppl who if they were
presented with the pedal bicycle today as "new technology" they would ban them
as "unsafe" on our roads... a threat to the 20th-century motorized carriage.
Everything "new" must be shoe-horned into a 20th-century perspective that is
just killing us.
tks
Lock
--- On Wed, 2/25/09, EVsolutions <evsolutions@rogers.com> wrote:
From: EVsolutions <evsolutions@rogers.com>
Subject: RE: [TorontoEVA] Ontario Bill 126
To: TorontoEVA@yahoogroups.com
Received: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 7:10 PM
The smart thing to do is pass it in May piggybacked onto Shai Agassi and Better
Place
joshua goldberg
evsolutions@ rogers.com
www.evsolutions. net
http://groups. yahoo.com/ groups/e- motor-assist
-----Original Message-----
From: TorontoEVA@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:TorontoEVA@ yahoogroups. com] On
Behalf Of Juergen Weichert
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 6:03 PM
To: TorontoEVA@yahoogro ups.com
Subject: Re: [TorontoEVA] Ontario Bill 126
More than "tighten up" - this is the bill that makes e-bikes permanently
legal. We need this to pass before the pilot project runs out.
Juergen
lockhughes wrote:
>
> Hard for me to understand all this but there is a Bill floating
Lock
100 MW
Where we stand on 'E-bikes' - Bike Union recommendations to MTO
27 February, 2009 - 15:00  yvonne
The Toronto Cyclists Union believes that e-bikes/bicycles should be nothing other than traditional style bicycles, primarily powered by pedalling, that have minimal power assist – not capable of exceeding 20kms/hr, and simply available to boost the cyclists ability to get up hills and keep the cyclist moving when they need a short break on longer distance rides.
Any electric ‘bike’ that resembles a scooter should be considered an e-scooter and be subject to the rules that apply to that type of vehicle.
The Toronto Cyclists Union strongly recommends the following:
- That support, encouragement and resources for the implementation of additional cycling infrastructure across Ontario accompany any e-bike
promotion initiative pursued by the MTO
- That the MTO do more to promote traditional cycling as an active form of transportation in tandem with, and perhaps even as a priority over, e-bikes
- That both the Driver education training guidelines, and Driver’s License testing be updated to include much more content (tbd) regarding how cyclists use the roadways, and the need/requirement to share the road.
Concerns regarding 'e-bikes' include:
- Lack of specific rules around what exactly qualifies as an e-bike. We heard of one scooter style ‘e-bike’ being sold with marketing material that described the pedals as being removable as one of the ‘features’.
- Scooter style ‘e-bikes’ are too heavy and could easily harm regular cyclists in a collision if they are allowed to use bike lanes and paths. They much more closely resemble and behave like motorcycles and should therefore be classified in a manner that reflects this.
- Scooter style ’e-bikes’ have no place on sidewalks – we have seen them both parked in the middle of sidewalks blocking the entire path, as well as being driven down sidewalks. We also would say the same of regular bicycles, but these do belong respectfully on sidewalks when a rider is stopping to park at a post and ring, or in those parts of the city where there is limited pedestrian activity and the roadway is not safe enough for cycling due to lack of cycling infrastructure and inadequate driver education – ex: Toronto’s inner/outer suburbs.
- E-bikes appear to be too silent when running on electric power; not having the regular giveaway sounds such as the chain and weight bearing/shifting sounds that occur as the rider pedals make these hard to perceive when they are approaching. This should be of particular concern when these vehicles come into contact with the pedestrian realm at crossings, in particular when considering the visually impaired who rely even more heavily on audible cues.
The Toronto Cyclists Union does understand the need for accessible and active transportation options for those who have decreased physical capacity to ride a regular bicycle.
However, we strongly believe that if the Ministry of Transportation Office is going to promote e-bikes, (ideally the type we describe above as fitting a reasonable definition of e-bike) what qualifies as an e-bicycle should be much more clearly defined, expressly communicated and strictly enforced.
We believe that the MTO should also seriously address the fact that the cycling infrastructure, currently in place in relatively few parts of mainly urban centres, is sorely inadequate for accommodating current users, let alone the additional users that would come from promoting e-bikes as a new form of transportation.
27 February, 2009 - 15:00  yvonne
The Toronto Cyclists Union believes that e-bikes/bicycles should be nothing other than traditional style bicycles, primarily powered by pedalling, that have minimal power assist – not capable of exceeding 20kms/hr, and simply available to boost the cyclists ability to get up hills and keep the cyclist moving when they need a short break on longer distance rides.
Any electric ‘bike’ that resembles a scooter should be considered an e-scooter and be subject to the rules that apply to that type of vehicle.
The Toronto Cyclists Union strongly recommends the following:
- That support, encouragement and resources for the implementation of additional cycling infrastructure across Ontario accompany any e-bike
promotion initiative pursued by the MTO
- That the MTO do more to promote traditional cycling as an active form of transportation in tandem with, and perhaps even as a priority over, e-bikes
- That both the Driver education training guidelines, and Driver’s License testing be updated to include much more content (tbd) regarding how cyclists use the roadways, and the need/requirement to share the road.
Concerns regarding 'e-bikes' include:
- Lack of specific rules around what exactly qualifies as an e-bike. We heard of one scooter style ‘e-bike’ being sold with marketing material that described the pedals as being removable as one of the ‘features’.
- Scooter style ‘e-bikes’ are too heavy and could easily harm regular cyclists in a collision if they are allowed to use bike lanes and paths. They much more closely resemble and behave like motorcycles and should therefore be classified in a manner that reflects this.
- Scooter style ’e-bikes’ have no place on sidewalks – we have seen them both parked in the middle of sidewalks blocking the entire path, as well as being driven down sidewalks. We also would say the same of regular bicycles, but these do belong respectfully on sidewalks when a rider is stopping to park at a post and ring, or in those parts of the city where there is limited pedestrian activity and the roadway is not safe enough for cycling due to lack of cycling infrastructure and inadequate driver education – ex: Toronto’s inner/outer suburbs.
- E-bikes appear to be too silent when running on electric power; not having the regular giveaway sounds such as the chain and weight bearing/shifting sounds that occur as the rider pedals make these hard to perceive when they are approaching. This should be of particular concern when these vehicles come into contact with the pedestrian realm at crossings, in particular when considering the visually impaired who rely even more heavily on audible cues.
The Toronto Cyclists Union does understand the need for accessible and active transportation options for those who have decreased physical capacity to ride a regular bicycle.
However, we strongly believe that if the Ministry of Transportation Office is going to promote e-bikes, (ideally the type we describe above as fitting a reasonable definition of e-bike) what qualifies as an e-bicycle should be much more clearly defined, expressly communicated and strictly enforced.
We believe that the MTO should also seriously address the fact that the cycling infrastructure, currently in place in relatively few parts of mainly urban centres, is sorely inadequate for accommodating current users, let alone the additional users that would come from promoting e-bikes as a new form of transportation.
