FOC // Field Oriented Control

Merlin

1 MW
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
2,212
Location
europe
Hey,
iam new to Sine-Wave Controllers.
I Like the FOC Feature for sure, but how many amps i can use this feature without damaging something?
I cant find any Information with a SUBVOTON Controller.

Needless to say that the efficiency goes downhill using FOC, but thats Okay for me.
Just want to know wheres the LIMIT of FOC.

Thx to the Electric specialist who knows an Answer.
 
Have you tried emailing Kelly at Sabvoton ?, she is usually pretty quick at answering, and is on here too.
 
Your question as asked can't be answered. That's likely part of the reason no one has responded.

It sounds like you want to know what the limits of field weakening are while forcing your motor to go faster than it normally would at full voltage. That situation is dependent on several variables, like your system configuration, speed, wind resistance, the amount of time at full throttle over 100% speed, how low your efficiency is while using field weakening, thermal mass of your motor, etc.

The only way you are going to be able to answer that question is by trial and error on your bike. You have to test the application while monitoring your controller and motor temperature.

You seem to repeatedly dismiss the "downhill efficiency" as something you can live with. The reality is that you can only live with it until the point your motor either burns up or your controller shuts it down due to overheating, if you have that function. That could be a very short time.
 
Hey,
Controller and motor has Tempsensors.
Cycle Analyst Stops motor when Temp goes to high.
Controller has also internal Temp control. At 70° it lowers the amps, at 80° it stops.
The Controller is btw totally underrated. So i dont think there could be a problem. The Cromotor cant handle the 6KW continue.
when he's on 120°, the controller has a spot over ambient temperature....

iam now at 70 FOC amps. The Bike runs a bit over 60mph.
thats a good drag race top speed.


my question wasnt about how fast can my bike go. it was just to try to understand how that FOC works and how many amps i can push.
when it is only the temperature that limits, would be cool because you cant damage it in this way.
maybe someone say 100Amps is maxium because of this or that. <- and this or that is what i want to know (learn)


or maybe the DC Max Current is Limit..like 150A. would plausible answer to me.
like: need to run normal motor speed (voltage) with 80amps to get top speed you have 70amps left for FOC.
 
There is a thermal limit. Maybe you just haven't reached it yet. There is also a point where field weakening will no longer make your bike go faster no matter how high you program the current, because you have no more power available to accelerate the bike due to the inefficiency.

FOC is Field Oriented Control, or Vector Control. Try Wikipedia for an explanation. However, knowing how it works will not tell you how much current you can use, again.

There seems to be some confusion about the current you are referring to. FOC amps I don't understand.

Phase amps
Battery amps
Flux (field) weakening amps

All of these should be adjustable on your controller. If you have hit 120 degrees C on the Cromotor already at 70A at 60mph you are probably already at the limit. More current will only drive the temp higher.

The answer is still the same. No one else has built a bike exactly like yours, and has tested it and can give you the answer. Builders make small changes, then test their configurations and document and evaluate the results. You have to find out by trial and error. If your motor overheats, it is too much. If more current does not give you more performance, then you have also reached the limit (saturation). If your wiring overheats, it is too much. If you go too far, and something fails......

If you want to continue, document your settings, then post your results as you turn up the current. Making a graph or chart might help others program the Sabvoton.
 
Hugechainring said:
There is a thermal limit. Maybe you just haven't reached it yet.
sure there it is....and yep i dont reached it from the controller....and i will never reach it....because the motor would die 3times before.

There is also a point where field weakening will no longer make your bike go faster no matter how high you program the current, because you have no more power available to accelerate the bike due to the inefficiency.
agree. and thats some part of my question ;)
maybe theres a simple rule to "calculate"?
The Cro is a wellknown motor. the sabvoton is totally new.
the infineon stuff is also well known. nothing new, no more questions.
sine wave is also new territorium....adaptto starts with it and all guys want one. nice features but whats behind maybe not many know it.
FOC is one of them. many people know that you can run 60mph with 100v. the early videos from andrey who shows 90kph with just 75v makes big eyes to the crowd.
they have an option from 1 to 7 to increase the field weakining. Sabvoton did that just with Amps.


FOC is Field Oriented Control, or Vector Control. Try Wikipedia for an explanation. However, knowing how it works will not tell you how much current you can use, again.
did that allready. and yep, that was my conclusion: ...."but how much can do with my ctrl" ;)
There seems to be some confusion about the current you are referring to. FOC amps I don't understand.

Phase amps
Battery amps
Flux (field) weakening amps

All of these should be adjustable on your controller.
it is. ....how does it help?!
If you have hit 120 degrees C on the Cromotor already at 70A at 60mph you are probably already at the limit.
More current will only drive the temp higher.

you can hit 120° also on 10mph on a hill. that 70a/60mph was just an example.
you will agreee that temps can generate in a lot ways. On a cold motor you can push full throttle 10miles without problems.
do that 10 times and you get problems. Finding the limit is not using the stuff in a daily use.
in my signature you can see my old bike. the 4080 runs faster as the cro family. but it is also clear that you see in my video that
you can heat up that buddy in one minute......just finding "real" limits. and running real 110kph with 100v is not easy with the infineon ones.
near 100 is not a problem. but 3-5 kph above its a "magic wall".....whatever...with foc there are other limits ;D


The answer is still the same. No one else has built a bike exactly like yours, and has tested it and can give you the answer. Builders make small changes, then test their configurations and document and evaluate the results. You have to find out by trial and error. If your motor overheats, it is too much. If more current does not give you more performance, then you have also reached the limit (saturation). If your wiring overheats, it is too much. If you go too far, and something fails......

If you want to continue, document your settings, then post your results as you turn up the current. Making a graph or chart might help others program the Sabvoton.
Programming is easy with that sab. everyone can do it. you cant damage something.
iam still waiting of an answer from kathy about the max foc amps. sometimes i found 50A.....and another manual say 100A.
i will post some screens when iam ready ....but the sabs are so big that theyre only interessting for users with rollers or big bikes like raptor, phasor, greyborgs ugly steelpig etc....
someone has to tell them build controllers in kelly size and you have more orders ;P
 
Hi Merlin,
Found these old posts.
What FOC number you found work for you?
How much you increase FOC amps and what speed you gain our of it? Does motor really get hot fast?

Mine setup:
qs 205 50H 9kv
72v nominal batt
610mm diameter wheel
max speed with fully charged batt (84v) - 70km/h.
sabvoton settings - Batt 80A / phase 250A
Never tried FOC. Don't know what to expect.

Can you give your example what you can gain using FOC?
 
Back
Top