Ft.Collins CO City Council meet TONIGHT: eBikes on trails?

[chrisvw]

Lock - you're my hero!

Thanks much.
CVW

 

[chrisvw]

Here's my report from the Dec 20 Ft. Collins city council meeting. It was one of the stranger events I've ever attended and a good example where misinformation/education and other problems managed to block normally rational thoughts.

The ordinance passed on this reading. What that means is that ebikes are specifically named as banned on the multi-use trails in Fort Collins except as required by the Americans with Disabilities Act.

The council had effectively rejected a 1 year study of ebike use on the trail despite the fact that one of the local agencies (who's name I forgot) recommended for this and furthermore recommended that it be integrated into a trail use study that they are already planning. (e.g. no extra cost).

The fact that ebikes are classified as bicycles by the Consumer Product Safety Commission held no apparent sway.

There were two big sticking points with the Council. By far the biggest was a survey that was completed on the trails where users of the trail were asked if they think ebikes should be allowed. It was abundantly clear that the majority of users had little idea what an ebike was and several council members acknowledged this. Anyway, the general consensus from this survey was that they should not be allowed. When an ebike was explained to users, acceptance was much higher. The "bike freak" member of the council used this as his basis for banning ebikes.

The second sticking point is that two of the existing trails are quite narrow and very heavily used. Despite the fact that it was acknowledged that ebikes would add negligable additional traffic, members could not stomach the possibility of a heavy, fast ebike on a narrow, congested trail.

Two other interesting things resulted from this.

The city attorney was asked if an ebike could be walked on the trail. She said her interpretation was no due to the fact that they were banned on the trail. She also specifically stated that unpowered use would be banned. She did not explain the contradiction that an unpowered ebike meets the definition of a bicycle which is specifically allowed on the trails.

The city attorney also addressed specifics of the ADA exemption. She stated specifically that that user only needs to present a credible statement that they are using the ebike due to a disability to be allowed on the trails. They do not need to present further proof (handicap sticker, disabled ID or similar). If this is a credible (e.g. believable) statement, any such ebike user would be allowed on the trails. Of course, this is a huge loophole for anyone willing to bend the truth if they are ever busted while using the trail.

What was amazing to me was the voting. One member - Wade Troxell was clearly in favor of the study period and voted against the ordinance. Both the mayor and Aislinn Kottwitz expressed significant concerns with the trail study and seemed as if they would vote against. In actuality, only Wade voted against the ordinance as stated without the trial period.

While Fort Collins still has an extensive bike path network (lanes on the side of roads) where ebikes are allowed, this was a significant setback for all of us in the ebike community. It is all the more ironic that a city that considers itself a bike friendly community is an early adopter of this ban.

 

[sk8norcal]

The city attorney was asked if an ebike could be walked on the trail. She said her interpretation was no due to the fact that they were banned on the trail. She also specifically stated that unpowered use would be banned. She did not explain the contradiction that an unpowered ebike meets the definition of a bicycle which is specifically allowed on the trails. .

I could see where she's coming from.. if they are targeting scooter-bikes, they just don't want it on the path, anyone riding it or walking it....

Years ago, at a park in Marin, me and my friend walked our mountain bikes on a two lane wide dirt trail (marked hikers only) to get to a bike trail,
ranger came along and gave us a ticket....

 

[MadRhino]

Makes me feel lucky to live here. :wink:

 

[Lock]

Makes me feel lucky to live here. :wink:

There is a good chance you are oblivious to what is going on around you:

My way or the highway?
Concerned with the exploding number of electric scooters, the City is examining who is allowed to use bicycle paths

http://www.montrealmirror.com/wp/2011/10/20/my-way-or-the-highway/

Bike-path harassment

http://www.montrealgazette.com/travel/Bike+path+harassment/5692458/story.html

Electric bike scares cyclists

http://www.montrealgazette.com/travel/Electric+bike+scares+cyclists/5721529/story.html

L0cK

 

[Lock]

http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20111221/UPDATES03/111221022/E-bike-ban-matter-honesty-

E-bike ban a matter of honesty
3:20 PM, Dec. 21, 2011 |
Written by David Young

Denise Johnson loves riding bicycles, so when she was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis 19 years ago her ability to ride was greatly affected.

Today, Johnson, 53, of Fort Collins can only ride for a mile or two because of her disability. Then she discovered electric assist bicycles. The ability to have an electric motor to aid her peddling has length-ened her rides to 19 miles and given her the freedom to ride again.

“(E-bikes) are the best idea since sliced bread. I’m able to go around town and do errands… get where I need to be and can keep up with friends,” she said.

Johnson is able to ride her e-bike on Fort Collins recreation trails as council gave final approval to an ordinance that permits the use of e-bikes for people with mobility disabilities as required by the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Council upheld a ban of e-bikes on recreation trails, meaning anyone without a mobility disability will not be able to use them, which Johnson questioned how they will enforce. She said the deciding factor for e-bikes on trails should be speed not disabilities.

Marty Heffernan, City of Fort Collins director of community services, said enforcing the ordinance will basically come down to the honor system.

Under ADA regulations, Heffernan said if they see someone with an e-bike on the trail they are only permitted to ask if they have a mobility disability. Unless there is reason to doubt them, Heffernan said they will take riders at their word.

“My observation is people in Fort Collins are generally honest and well intended; there is always an exception,” he said. “Frankly I’m not worried about a run of dishonest e-bike users on the trail system.”

 

[veloman]

Just because your city hasn't specifically banned ebikes doesn't mean you are safe. This a big problem, as it sets precedent.



I just don't understand how anyone can have an educated opinion on something they do not know the facts about (what ebikes actually are). This society has so far to go.

 

[MadRhino]

There is a good chance you are oblivious to what is going on around you

I know they will ban Ebikes from the bike paths, they are banned already in some areas of the city.
In fact, I agree. I don't believe that Ebikes should be limited to 32 Kmh, and I don't believe they should use the bike paths.

I ride the street, behaving as a motorcycle and the police like it like that, while perfectly legal Ebikes are harassed in the bike path.
Then, I ride the mountain mostly, and half of it will never be patrolled. The part that is patrolled has some paths that are reserved to pedestrians, the rest is free to ride. The mounted police in the mountain have 2 of my horses, they are very friendly and told me exacly what and where I can do to avoid trouble with my bikes.

 

[amberwolf]

I just don't understand how anyone can have an educated opinion on something they do not know the facts about (what ebikes actually are). This society has so far to go.

This is extremely commonplace (people believing they have an "educated" opinion on something they don't even understand the concept of, and believing they do not need to learn any more about it to decide what to do about it). It is the norm for most societies I am aware of, at all levels from families to federal governments, and I do not believe that it will change any time soon.

AFAICT most things are decided emotionally, rather than logically with facts.

 

[dogman dan]

Reminds me of the big scare when radiated food was introduced. Even trying to explain the difference between having clean raw chicken vs raw chicken crawling with e coli and samonella was pointless. They just couldn't get past the idea that the food might have plutonium in it. As if, actual radioisotopes are far to expensive to include in the food, if nothing else.

But it was just " new thing bad" Run away!

Sounds in this case, like the real problem is dangerously narrow multi use paths. I went for a ride on the Albuquerque path along the river once. I was shocked and appalled by the dangerously narrow path. I did not realize how spoiled I am with paths that are 8 foot wide in Las Cruces.

 

[veloman]

Sounds in this case, like the real problem is dangerously narrow multi use paths. I went for a ride on the Albuquerque path along the river once. I was shocked and appalled by the dangerously narrow path. I did not realize how spoiled I am with paths that are 8 foot wide in Las Cruces.

This is another thing that makes little sense. Why make a path that is only suitable for two pedestrians abreast, or one cyclist alone? They never factor in curves or the possibility that people will actually use the path and it's horribly inadequate. That is the real problem. Then you look at many streets and they are huge, extra lanes, taking multitudes of more resources and space.


The reality is that putting a legal ebiker on most streets (no bike lane) with cars is akin to putting a 40mph vehicle on a 70mph highway and expecting everyone to get along and there to be no issues. It's asinine. Yes, all bikes should be allowed on the streets, but they should have the option. Many cyclists aren't comfortable riding next to 4000lb objects going high speeds, piloted by distracted drivers.


The biggest question I have is: why enforce a law than bans nearly all ebikes, yet you can't enforce dangerous/fast cycling on these trails?

This all just boils down to one point: the law is nothing more than a red tape 'official' line of BS that *could* be enforced, but realistically isn't, all the while the conscious, safe ebiker doesn't want to break the law - and it keeps them from enjoying the trail. That's ALL this law does. It will not keep reckless bikes off the trail.

Why not ban driving a car at night in the rain? That's about a hundred times more dangerous than riding a 'quick' bike on a trail with pedestrians.

It really just goes to show that the culture STILL SEES BICYCLES AS RECREATION, not transportation, even in a huge bike city like Ft Collins. From a recreation standpoint, I feel a lot less strongly about having access to trails on my ebike, but that's because my ebike is mostly transportation for me.

 

[chrisvw]

In Ft. Collins case, the narrowest trails are also the oldest. They are also the most convenient to the center of town. The newer trails are much wider with few blind or sharp curves.

It really just goes to show that the culture STILL SEES BICYCLES AS RECREATION, not transportation, even in a huge bike city like Ft Collins. From a recreation standpoint, I feel a lot less strongly about having access to trails on my ebike, but that's because my ebike is mostly transportation for me.

This point came up in the City Council discussion. The multiuse trails are clearly seen as recreation trails. If you want to use your bike or ebike to commute, it's largely assumed you'll do so on the streets.

 

[dogman dan]

Doesn't take a genius to see where this is headed. The old, narrow, convenient to downtown trails will become single use, and walkers outvote bikers. Your next battle should be to regain use of at least the wider trails in the outlying areas.

One thing I noticed right away when riding in Albuquerque, the cyclists on that 5 foot wide trail had excellent trail manners. All passing from the rear gave warning, all passed riders or walkers at reasonable relative speed, all rode or walked right and passed left. Not one walker or rider hogging the center. All shared the trail beautifully, on a very busy spring saturday morning. It made a huge difference that even the walkers got it.

But I was still a bit spooked when passing another bike head on, inches from hooking bars and with a pretty good combined speed. Too narrow for my enjoyment, till I got away from the crowded part of the trails.

The oldest bike trails in Las Cruces are on campus, 5 feet wide, and have been made virtually unusable by oblivious pedestrians ever since thier construction back in the 70's. The wide trails in Las Cruces are very unused by bikes, and almost every walker is obliviously hogging the center wearing an Ipod. At least it's wide enough to usually get around them, but the question is, which way will they jump when you startle them?

 

[Lock]

I see this article has been re-written and re-posted:

http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20111221/UPDATES03/111221022/E-bike-ban-matter-honesty-
E-bike ban a matter of honesty
3:20 PM, Dec. 21, 2011 |
Written by David Young

Denise Johnson loves riding bicycles, so when she was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis 19 years ago her ability to ride was greatly affected.

Here:
http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20111223/NEWS01/112230339/E-bikes-allowed-trail-disabled

E-bikes allowed on trail for disabled

12:48 AM, Dec. 23, 2011
Written by David Young

Denise Johnson loves riding bicycles, so when she was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis 19 years ago her ability to ride was greatly affected.

Today, Johnson, 53, of Fort Collins can only ride for a mile or two because of her disability. Then she discovered electric assist bicycles. The ability to have an electric motor to aid her pedaling has lengthened her rides to 19 miles and given her the freedom to ride again.

"(E-bikes) are the best idea since sliced bread. I'm able to go around town and do errands ... get where I need to be and can keep up with friends," she said.

Johnson is able to ride her e-bike on Fort Collins recreation trails because council gave final approval to an ordinance that permits the use of e-bikes for people with mobility disabilities as required by the Americans with Disabilities Act.

But council upheld a ban of e-bikes on recreation trails for everyone else. That means people who are not disabled will not be able to use them. Johnson questioned how the city will enforce the law. She said the deciding factor for e-bikes on trails should be speed not disabilities.

Marty Heffernan, City of Fort Collins director of community services, said enforcing the ordinance will basically come down to the honor system.

Under ADA regulations, Heffernan said if they see someone with an e-bike on the trail they are only permitted to ask if they have a mobility disability. Unless there is reason to doubt them, Heffernan said they will take riders at their word.

"My observation is people in Fort Collins are generally honest and well intended; there is always an exception," he said. "Frankly I'm not worried about a run of dishonest e-bike users on the trail system."

The decision by council to uphold the ban may be the death knell for Fort Collins Small Planet E Vehicles, which is closed until further notice due to the council's decision and poor sales.

The e-bike shop at 244 N. College Ave., where Johnson bought her e-bike, closed in late November and Tom Wilson, owner of Small Planet E Vehicles, said he wants to get out of his lease.

Wilson estimates they sold 75 to 100 bikes in the past year and said they may have to reopen next spring if they can't get someone to take over the lease.

...with a couple of interesting [C]omments so far:

Daniel Albertson

maybe the council should actually read the ADA. It is illegal to ask anyone about their disability. Most disabled individuals are not proud of their disability and could be embarrassed by the questions. My father is disabled and he gets irate every time some idiots questions him on it. They have to accept their claims of disability without proof except for their word. If the police see it differently they could cost the city a lot of money. The average ADA suit costs about 300k.

Yesterday at 11:07

Mea Culpa

Well, actually you're partially correct on whether a disabled person can be asked for information concerning a power-driven device.

Under Title 28, Part 35, § 35.137 Mobility devices, (2) Assessment factors, (c)(1) "Inquiry about disability" we read:

"A public entity SHALL NOT ASK an individual using a wheelchair or other power-driven mobility device questions about the NATURE and EXTENT OF the individual's disability." [My CAPS].

However, under "(2) Inquiry into use of other power-driven mobility device" we read:

"A public entity may ask a person using an other power-driven mobility device to provide a CREDIBLE ASSURANCE that the mobility device is REQUIRED BECAUSE OF the person's disability." [Again, my CAPS].

Here's the link that will get most of the way to the above provisions:

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/​cgi/t/te...=28:1.0.1.1.​36&idno=28#28:1.0.1.1.36.2​.32.8

· Yesterday at 11:52

Jeremiah Warner

Its ridiculous that ebikes for the disabled weren't allowed to ride on city trials prior to this. My father had been previously harassed by city police, who in their words were just "following city ordinance". Finally the city changes their stance since its required by the Americans with Disabilities Act. Laughable. Fricken boneheads.

Yesterday at 11:45

Mea Culpa

Technically, they couldn't ban any disabled person from using the eBikes if someone had asked for permission as a "reasonable accommodation." To deny permission, the council would have been forced to show it would be dangerous for others, or too expensive, etc, etc. No one ever pushed the issue.

I'd be interested in seeing if/how they're going to apply "the deciding factor for e-bikes on trails should be speed." However they try to apply that one will raise the question "are you limiting what bicycles can be ridden by non-disabled individuals based on attainable speed?" The ADA prevents restrictions on those disabled, if not applied equally to others.

Yesterday at 12:10

From that link above to the ADA:

§ 35.130 General prohibitions against discrimination.
(h) A public entity may impose legitimate safety requirements necessary for the safe operation of its services, programs, or activities. However, the public entity must ensure that its safety requirements are based on actual risks, not on mere speculation, stereotypes, or generalizations about individuals with disabilities.

I'd be curious to hear the rationalization about how ebikes with disabled riders are inherently safer around others than ebikes with riders that do not have a disability...

L0cK

 

[veloman]

Lock, you prove how misguided this city council is. Great point.

 

[Josh K.]

Hi Folks,

Well, it is an interesting struggle, but we are moving forward.

When we started, over a year ago, our parks and recreation was 100 percent against electric assist on the multi use paths.

With show and tell days, E bike demo rides, and consistent 2.5 min opportunities to speak to city council, we have seen parks and rec,
come around, 100 percent, with a recommendation for a one year trial! That's some progress. The Mayor came out swinging, Pro E bike,
and she really gets it.

Mostly, it is the folks who did not know what E bikes are, that thought we were promoting mopeds, and or motorized vehicles on the trails.

I bet that this year, 2012, we will see city council allow E bikes onto two of our multi use paths, for a one year trial. Our Mason trail, and
our power trail, as they were designed for transportation.

Thankfully, E bikes are allowed along the 300 miles of bike lanes along our roads. They are allowed along the secondary roads, and they are allowed
along the multi use paths for people who have disabilities. So, E bikes are allowed in Fort Collins, and we believe that we will see a change, and eventually, as E bikes are accepted as bicycles, we will see them allowed on all of the trails, for all people.

What I am looking for, is inclusiveness. And we want access to the mountain bike paths too. We ride, and we want to be enabled to ride with our
friends, wherever bikes are allowed.

Peace, Josh K.

 

[neptronix]

Thank you for your work Josh ( and Lock for bringing this to our attention ). I may be moving up there in spring and wish i could have been more involved, IE show up in city hall etc...

I'm kinda shocked that they didn't know what they were dealing with, but were ready to vote against it.

 

[TonyReynolds]

I'm kinda shocked that they didn't know what they were dealing with, but were ready to vote against it.

I'm not; that's the way government works.

 

[eureka!]

To Josh and everyone else advocating for ebikes- THANK YOU. Ft. Collins is my hometown and it has only improved with time except prehaps in fair minded tolerance in some issues. I revisit it each summer to see family. There are always advancements in technology and ebikes are just another which increases opportunities for folks with age or medical related maladies to continue enjoying public pathways which they couldn't before. But in all fairness, they should be available to all responsible riders. It's not the bike that's the problem, it's the riders and some nearly mowed me down. Due to asthma & arthritis, I thought my biking days were over until I discovered ebikes and hauled mine over 800 miles to explore your beautiful trail system ( I was told they were allowed during a "trial" period last summer- apparently incorrect info). Naturally I didn't understand the dirty looks by a few acadmic looking types who whizzed by at twice my speed- now I know. I only used the pedal assist ( human powered) mode on inclines but still was passed by most bikers. Otherwise, my ebike looked and operated as a traditional bicycle & was actually smaller than many bikes on the trail. Before next summer, my hope is that the city council will not take the rants of a few purists as a legitimant argument against ebikes and at least give them a true road test with other officials & cyclists- that would be the democratic thing to do. Ebikes are no less intrusive than speeding ten speeds, joggers, or dog walkers- and are a legitimate adaptation for those with physical limitations- even if those might not be apparent to everyone. I will say, I am impressed with your mayor. She "gets its" !!!

 

[Josh K.]

Yes, Yes, yes,

the Mayor does get it, and I do believe, that with time, more and more people who sit on council, will get it too.

Cyclists are cyclists, and we have to keep our vehicles in control. Electric assist will help people stay in the game, and get
back into cycling for light exercise, and local transportation. It answers many challenges, including the City Council's desire
to be more accepting of multi modal transportation to improve air quality. It wants to accept advanced transportation options
for local commuters, and people with disabilities. The About to Retire are growing in numbers, and these help them to be able
to ride with family and friends in a social way, without endangering anyone.

I have been Voted Chair position in our local Bicycle Advisory Council, a branch of the transportation board. From here, I will
continue to advocate for the acceptance of electric assist for cyclists of all types, to be allowed to ride along the city's multi
use paths. We are fortunate to be able to use the 300 plus miles of bike lanes along most of our roads, but, it will be better
for all involved to allow the riders to use these recreational paths, for what they were intended for.

We are looking for more members of the community to come out, and to get involved. It is a long good struggle, and we need
to help people from all over the country to help in the movement to enable their local riders to be allowed to use these
assistive technologies where they live.

Peace, Josh K.

 

[veloman]

Josh,

Thanks, and it is great to have someone like you in that position. I am also heavily involved with our BAC in Austin TX and understand the power they have and how connected they are with the city. While Austin doesn't have ebikes on the radar, it's only a matter of time. I plan to be in positions where I will strongly defend and support the safe, logical, beneficial use of ebikes on all bike facilities here.

 

[Josh K.]

Hi Folks,

Well, the beat goes on...

I will speak at city council on Tuesday night, and recommend that they allow E bikes to be included, in the City Plan Bicycle study.

Seems Parks and Recreation has recommended to council that a couple of multi use paths be opened up to allow E bikes, upon the power trail,
and the new Mason trail to be...

It would be a trial period, to be included in a study, to see about the impacts upon the recreational experience, and the response from trail users. 3 yrs.

Monday, I will bring it up as a discussion item at the BAC meeting, and Tuesday at City Council.

Hopefully, they will see the value of this inclusion, before the next round, as this item will come up, year after year as E bike use grows exponentially.

Wish me luck, Josh K.

 

[neptronix]

Wish you the best. Thanks for fighting the good fight, Josh.