Gary Fisher gonna regulate yo asses LOL!
- Thread starter Dee Jay
- Start date
Electric bike chat starts at 3:50, ends at 6:30
edit: 5:25 he starts talking about talking to politicians and defining E-bikes. "Speeds are capped out at around 20-MPH...we can't have, you know, 30-40 MPH bikes"
edit: 5:25 he starts talking about talking to politicians and defining E-bikes. "Speeds are capped out at around 20-MPH...we can't have, you know, 30-40 MPH bikes"
geetarboy
100 W
Yep, this is just what we need. I can see the government crackin down hard w/ someone like this bozo lobby'n for us 
Doctorbass
100 GW
What Gary might to not know because he never really discussed with ebikes overcklockers is that when educated people are using their insane powerfull ebike in an intelligent way.. these ebikes become more safer than normal bike!
Many exemples here:
When the light goes green and you go from a dead stop at an intersection, our ebikes have already crossed the intersection and are on the other side of the road.. while normal bicycle driver are still stand up on their pedal trying to fight the hard aceleration... while car driver try to turn on the right and might make an accident hiting the cyclist...
Yeah... Mr Fisher.. what i am introducing to your discussion is another importnat word: Acceleration !!
Ebike are not just good for speed. But also for accelration... and that great acceleration is making me to be still alive today!... it avoided me alot of acccident at road intersection when car driver cut your passage because the timing of your slow cyclist acceleration match the reaction time of the car driver to accelerate.. increasing the risk of hiting you and making accident!
Great Acceleration make your ebike more agile and make you to quit car area faster for the potential acident conditions.
Anyway.. that's my own opinion after 4 years of intense ebiking activity...
Accident with cars: ZERO
Accident :ZERO
Total distance traveled more than 10 000km
Am i an exception?... NO
I just run my ebike with intelligence and respect.
A lycra cyclist that think that due to his performances give him the right to be the master of the road and run in the middle of the cars lane... is more dangerous than using an ebike with 20kW with intelligence!
If Gary want to reglate my ebike use.. he just have to visit me in my garage i'll explain him.. All my ebikes dont have the name DOCTORBASS stamped on them... But Gary .. YES
Doc
Many exemples here:
When the light goes green and you go from a dead stop at an intersection, our ebikes have already crossed the intersection and are on the other side of the road.. while normal bicycle driver are still stand up on their pedal trying to fight the hard aceleration... while car driver try to turn on the right and might make an accident hiting the cyclist...
Yeah... Mr Fisher.. what i am introducing to your discussion is another importnat word: Acceleration !!
Ebike are not just good for speed. But also for accelration... and that great acceleration is making me to be still alive today!... it avoided me alot of acccident at road intersection when car driver cut your passage because the timing of your slow cyclist acceleration match the reaction time of the car driver to accelerate.. increasing the risk of hiting you and making accident!
Great Acceleration make your ebike more agile and make you to quit car area faster for the potential acident conditions.
Anyway.. that's my own opinion after 4 years of intense ebiking activity...
Accident with cars: ZERO
Accident :ZERO
Total distance traveled more than 10 000km
Am i an exception?... NO
I just run my ebike with intelligence and respect.
A lycra cyclist that think that due to his performances give him the right to be the master of the road and run in the middle of the cars lane... is more dangerous than using an ebike with 20kW with intelligence!
If Gary want to reglate my ebike use.. he just have to visit me in my garage i'll explain him.. All my ebikes dont have the name DOCTORBASS stamped on them... But Gary .. YES
Doc
Sounds like he's for eBikes.
20mph for a consumer product, i think, is quite realistic. At 30mph and above, you get into the zone where ordinary bike components are not designed from abuse for acceleration and deceleration forces.
I hope this guy fights for 20mph to continue to be a standard. 20mph to me, is useable because it is a bit faster than ordinary pedal power. Anything below that, IE european 15mph standards, is just a waste of money.
20mph for a consumer product, i think, is quite realistic. At 30mph and above, you get into the zone where ordinary bike components are not designed from abuse for acceleration and deceleration forces.
I hope this guy fights for 20mph to continue to be a standard. 20mph to me, is useable because it is a bit faster than ordinary pedal power. Anything below that, IE european 15mph standards, is just a waste of money.
Dee Jay
100 kW
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2007
- Messages
- 1,211
Sorry for being so giddy about all this, I just find it ironic how a cycling pioneer like Gary Fisher, who was once out of his box back in the 60's (70's?), is now gonna try put ebike pioneers into a box, wagging his self-righteous finger at us ebikers. How twisted is that... 
Edit:
I was actually hesitant to even bring this up but I thought it would be good to know so we can at least prepare for what's inevitably gonna come. Wouldn't want it biting you on teh ass.
B2, baby... <--- need make up a gang-sign 8)
Edit:
I was actually hesitant to even bring this up but I thought it would be good to know so we can at least prepare for what's inevitably gonna come. Wouldn't want it biting you on teh ass.
B2, baby... <--- need make up a gang-sign 8)
Dee Jay
100 kW
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- Messages
- 1,211
[youtube]CeDcfvnQtRA[/youtube]
Gary Fisher looks like them Imperial Officers with that menacing nazi cycling hat.
[youtube]Q7oqZ-_-O6Y[/youtube]
If he ever follows through with this campaign I want you ebikers to wear an Imperial Officer's hat in defiance of this traitor Fisher! :lol:
Gary Fisher looks like them Imperial Officers with that menacing nazi cycling hat.
[youtube]Q7oqZ-_-O6Y[/youtube]
If he ever follows through with this campaign I want you ebikers to wear an Imperial Officer's hat in defiance of this traitor Fisher! :lol:
dogman dan
1 PW
It's quite possible to have the acceleration, and the slower speed. But personally I think even the cheaper bikes are generally up to 25 mph traveling speeds.
So I'd like to see 25 mph made the upper limit. It seems sensless to me, that a humvee has a speed limit of 25 mph on a US residential street where the kids are playing catch or skateboarding, yet a much more mauverable and easy to stop e bike would be limited to 20 mph. I will never understand a vehicle being limited to a speed that is slower than the slowest posted speed limit, with the exception of school zones. ( 15 mph for schools here)
But what REALLY makes no sense to me is the low wattage limits. A 49cc moped is allowed, but if limited to 1 hp, that same vehicle would have to have, what, 20ccs ? I think a bike exactly like my current dirt riding setup should be legal to ride on the street. It's a slower winding dd motor. I run 72v, but only 20 amps. I get sustained peaks around 1500 watts showing on the CA. It has great acceleration, great performance on hills, and maxes out at 25 mph. With a legal watt limit of 3 hp, which is still quite modest, a bike could be made that still went 25 mph, but had around 2000 watts avalialbe when you need to get going and out of the way of that car trying to turn right.
Since the actual codes that specify what you can ride where is determined in the USA state by state, it will continue to be a nighmare of hodgepoge moped laws state by state, and even worse when idiots try to write an ebike specific law. Goes without saying the actual cops will mostly be completely ignorant what applies where they work. They really do have more important laws to enforce in most cities.
So I'd like to see 25 mph made the upper limit. It seems sensless to me, that a humvee has a speed limit of 25 mph on a US residential street where the kids are playing catch or skateboarding, yet a much more mauverable and easy to stop e bike would be limited to 20 mph. I will never understand a vehicle being limited to a speed that is slower than the slowest posted speed limit, with the exception of school zones. ( 15 mph for schools here)
But what REALLY makes no sense to me is the low wattage limits. A 49cc moped is allowed, but if limited to 1 hp, that same vehicle would have to have, what, 20ccs ? I think a bike exactly like my current dirt riding setup should be legal to ride on the street. It's a slower winding dd motor. I run 72v, but only 20 amps. I get sustained peaks around 1500 watts showing on the CA. It has great acceleration, great performance on hills, and maxes out at 25 mph. With a legal watt limit of 3 hp, which is still quite modest, a bike could be made that still went 25 mph, but had around 2000 watts avalialbe when you need to get going and out of the way of that car trying to turn right.
Since the actual codes that specify what you can ride where is determined in the USA state by state, it will continue to be a nighmare of hodgepoge moped laws state by state, and even worse when idiots try to write an ebike specific law. Goes without saying the actual cops will mostly be completely ignorant what applies where they work. They really do have more important laws to enforce in most cities.
mobybike
10 mW
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2011
- Messages
- 30
It seems easy to vilify someone when you don't understand what they are doing and saying. This thread turns to some kind of hate spewing tripe based on faulty information, to the point of calling him a Nazi????
The LAW currently states 20 MPH as the definition of an electric assist bicycle. CURRENT FEDERAL LAW (current... snicker... punny...
)What if Gary Fisher and Trek and others like him, you know "pioneers" of the cycling industry uhhh inventors of mountain biking, pushers of 29ers, utility bike proponents... yeah those guys with clout, money, and drive. What if they are actually involved in trying to get the speed limit RAISED for ASSIST BICYCLES!?!
Don't you think a guy who is asking gear product manufactures to make stronger stuff that lasts longer, who is loving the electric bicycle idea, and is KNOWN for pushing the envelope... (remember re-pack hill?) Don't you think his history for wanting more speed speaks louder than his HAT???
Good grief.
vanilla ice
1 MW
He does say "on bikeways" if you listen.. it seems reasonable to me to not want 40mph bikes on bikeways. The roads are a different story imo.
beast775
100 kW
i would like to see a endlessphere focus group of the 10 best.then ship them off to a ebike show.now that would be fun .after lfp got done with them they would be 
.
.after lfp got done with them they would be .
vanilla ice
1 MW
I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt thinking he means MUPs/bike paths/greenways by "bikeways." It can be dangerous when 35/40mph speeders mix it up with 5mph kiddos or grandma cruisers as we already have happen sometimes even without motors involved.
Dogman:
I agree very stongly with that. A longtail E-cargobike carrying 4 bags of groceries can cut out 3/4th of my car use when weather is reasonably mild (3/4th of the year?). This is definitely a gray area in the law, which is further muddied by the law variations from state to state. A bike can't legally ride on the sidewalk, so we are legally required to run with 25-MPH traffic on the side streets.
I occasionally see a pedal-bike in traffic on the main roads with the posted limit being 35-MPH. The cars are always annoyed at them for slowing traffic, though there are usually at least two lane for them to go around. Many cities are installing bike lanes on these main roads, which are especially helpful on uphills where bike traffic slows to way below the posted 35-MPH limit.
I don't have a problem with a powered-bike speed limit of 20-MPH (though I would personally enjoy a 25-MPH E-bike speed limit). However, if an E-cargobike is on a steep uphill...any limit on power is just nuts.
I consider it my duty as a citizen to engage in a non-violent protest against these unjust laws by identifying and promoting the most effective stealth configurations of components.
I would further hope to make E-moped registration cheaper and easier to get, though it may require brake lights, turn signals, head/tail lights, horn, etc...
I agree very stongly with that. A longtail E-cargobike carrying 4 bags of groceries can cut out 3/4th of my car use when weather is reasonably mild (3/4th of the year?). This is definitely a gray area in the law, which is further muddied by the law variations from state to state. A bike can't legally ride on the sidewalk, so we are legally required to run with 25-MPH traffic on the side streets.
I occasionally see a pedal-bike in traffic on the main roads with the posted limit being 35-MPH. The cars are always annoyed at them for slowing traffic, though there are usually at least two lane for them to go around. Many cities are installing bike lanes on these main roads, which are especially helpful on uphills where bike traffic slows to way below the posted 35-MPH limit.
I don't have a problem with a powered-bike speed limit of 20-MPH (though I would personally enjoy a 25-MPH E-bike speed limit). However, if an E-cargobike is on a steep uphill...any limit on power is just nuts.
I consider it my duty as a citizen to engage in a non-violent protest against these unjust laws by identifying and promoting the most effective stealth configurations of components.
I would further hope to make E-moped registration cheaper and easier to get, though it may require brake lights, turn signals, head/tail lights, horn, etc...
dogman dan
1 PW
I've spent more than a year doing my perhaps 3 days a week commute with a bike that was truly limited to 20 mph. That's a 2810 on 48v 20 amps. It's ok, and a nice bike to share the bike path with othes on. Not so much braking to pass. If they see me and I know it, I can just keep going 20. The unseen pass overtaking walkers still needs a slowdown, but it's not so bad slowing down from 20. It's 1000 watts by the CA readings.
But then once off the path, I really wish I had the power to climb the big hill home faster, and at least go 25 mph on streets with 25 mph speed limit. At the moment, my cargo bike and my commuter are both back on 9c 2807's. Faster is cooler in 100F weather. But both suffer from being underpowered when I go to climb the hill to home.
My dirt bike seems to hit the sweet spot perfect, with 25 mph top speed, 20 mph speed up a 4% grade, and a pretty snappy take off from stop signs. Fortunately, it IS legal in NM to street ride it.
It's 1500 watts on the CA. Much nicer to have double the federal legal limit. But in NM, the law makes no mention at all of watt limits, just speed limits. God I hope they leave that moped law alone in this state!
But then once off the path, I really wish I had the power to climb the big hill home faster, and at least go 25 mph on streets with 25 mph speed limit. At the moment, my cargo bike and my commuter are both back on 9c 2807's. Faster is cooler in 100F weather.
But both suffer from being underpowered when I go to climb the hill to home. My dirt bike seems to hit the sweet spot perfect, with 25 mph top speed, 20 mph speed up a 4% grade, and a pretty snappy take off from stop signs. Fortunately, it IS legal in NM to street ride it.
It's 1500 watts on the CA. Much nicer to have double the federal legal limit. But in NM, the law makes no mention at all of watt limits, just speed limits. God I hope they leave that moped law alone in this state!REdiculous
10 kW
Gary Fisher....well, I think he sees it from the hardcore biker/lycra perspective. PAS is BS imo but whatever....I can't afford his <loose quote>"better engineering than NASA"</loose quote> bikes anyway.
Count me as one of those that thinks 25mph is a reasonable limit. If we're stuck with the 1HP limit (1kw in some states) then I think we should be allowed to travel at least as fast as a sick horse. I too think power limits are stupid since the speed limit should be enough....they'd never limit cars to 50HP and 45mph, even though it would probably save thousands of lives and tons of oil.
Count me as one of those that thinks 25mph is a reasonable limit. If we're stuck with the 1HP limit (1kw in some states) then I think we should be allowed to travel at least as fast as a sick horse. I too think power limits are stupid since the speed limit should be enough....they'd never limit cars to 50HP and 45mph, even though it would probably save thousands of lives and tons of oil.
15mph limit on ROADS is ridiculous. 20mph is a significant increase and doable. 25mph would be nice, but that is moped territory and I can see the safety issues with the average joe going 25 on a bicycle. On bikeways - good judgement should be used. If it's empty and straight, I don't feel wrong for doing some 30+mph sprints on my road bicycle (lycra time). But if I see kids, I keep it at 15 or so, and slow and even sometimes have to stop when I approach them.
Don't throw lycra's under the bus here, Doc. I am one and take the travel lane when I'm moving fast enough and/or it is safer to because it's too narrow to let a car pass me. All lyrcas don't ride like idiots (I know some do). You are dead right about the acceleration thing. When I go riding with newbies/girls on our road bikes, I do my normal surge off from a red light, and they are pokey, holding up traffic. I go 0-20mph in as little as 2 seconds, and it is much safer than being a struggling casual cyclist taking 10 seconds to get to 15mph.
Don't throw lycra's under the bus here, Doc. I am one and take the travel lane when I'm moving fast enough and/or it is safer to because it's too narrow to let a car pass me. All lyrcas don't ride like idiots (I know some do). You are dead right about the acceleration thing. When I go riding with newbies/girls on our road bikes, I do my normal surge off from a red light, and they are pokey, holding up traffic. I go 0-20mph in as little as 2 seconds, and it is much safer than being a struggling casual cyclist taking 10 seconds to get to 15mph.
wineboyrider
1 MW
Hey. Dogman I was up in ABQ the other day and went into the LBS called Bikes + and they had an electric bicycle in their show room that looked more like a moped than a bicycle! It had turn signals, horn, lights and a huge hub motor that looked just like the 28xxx 9c that Justin sells... It was a 48v and it was on sale for $400.00.dogman said:I've spent more than a year doing my perhaps 3 days a week commute with a bike that was truly limited to 20 mph. That's a 2810 on 48v 20 amps. It's ok, and a nice bike to share the bike path with othes on. Not so much braking to pass. If they see me and I know it, I can just keep going 20. The unseen pass overtaking walkers still needs a slowdown, but it's not so bad slowing down from 20. It's 1000 watts by the CA readings.
But then once off the path, I really wish I had the power to climb the big hill home faster, and at least go 25 mph on streets with 25 mph speed limit. At the moment, my cargo bike and my commuter are both back on 9c 2807's. Faster is cooler in 100F weather.
My dirt bike seems to hit the sweet spot perfect, with 25 mph top speed, 20 mph speed up a 4% grade, and a pretty snappy take off from stop signs. Fortunately, it IS legal in NM to street ride it.
mobybike
10 mW
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2011
- Messages
- 30
This bike in the video is supposedly "legal". Does the rider appear to be responsible and courteous? Now what if this guy had a bike that did 40 mph? Well he probably wouldn't be in the bike lanes at all and right out in traffic (maybe not I saw him pass a moped riding courteously on the sidewalk). They have those kind of "bikes" already. Mopeds, scooters... and the like, and you have to have a license to use in public. Where would you put the line between assisted bike and motor vehicle?
[youtube]YS1UkcUalUI[/youtube]
Now what if this guy had a bike that did 40 mph? Well he probably wouldn't be in the bike lanes at all and right out in traffic (maybe not I saw him pass a moped riding courteously on the sidewalk). They have those kind of "bikes" already. Mopeds, scooters... and the like, and you have to have a license to use in public. Where would you put the line between assisted bike and motor vehicle?[youtube]YS1UkcUalUI[/youtube]
REdiculous
10 kW
I'm in favor of a 25mph speed limit on the street and a 15mph limit on multi-use paths. Limiting power is stupid and unnecessary when there's a speed limit.
If that guy dinged his little bell at me like that I would've signaled a turn as he was passing...bam...what an asshat.
wineboyrider
1 MW
Great question. Speed limits are very appropriate for bicycles, scooters, skate boards whatever when the path is designated for pedestrians primarily. If you drove your "electric bicycle" (whatever that is??) in a reasonable and appropriate speed noone would notice, but it won't take long until some A####hole runs a pedestrian over and seriously hurts or god forbid kills someone and then the hammer of the law will come down.
auraslip
10 MW
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2010
- Messages
- 3,535
Speed is a difficult thing. Too slow and you can't ride with traffic on slow roads. Too fast and traffic can't treat you like a bicycle and pass you quickly and safely on a fast road.
Believe me. Going 35mph is great on a road with a speed limit of 30mph. Doing 35mph on the shoulder of a road where the speed limit is 50mph is dangerous. Cars are unsure how to react and it takes too long for comfort for them to pass you, leaving you trapped between a car and the curb in a very narrow shoulder while traveling at speeds that would mean certain mortal injuries during an accident.
I just had a nice long chat with a reporter from the local newspaper about this, and the future of ebikes in texas. I really can only see the 20mph speed limit becoming strictly enforced. It sucks, but I don't see a way to safely allow bikes to go faster.
I really wish there was a way around this so people could build whatever bike they wanted. I'd be all for registration and insurance, if I could be totally legal. In the past I've suggested a tiered system. The first being electric bicycles, and the second being more powerful 35mph electrics. But there is no way they would allow some 16 year old kid to build a 35mph bike. The manufactures will lobby against it. The parents of the kid will be against. The media will be in a frenzy about these "dangerous and unregulated ebikes." Really, it sucks that we can't be trusted to safely build fast bikes, but the truth is people are stupid and it's a dangerous game.
If we want anything besides a 20mph ebike limit, the time for action is NOW, before our governments reflexively outlaw them based only on the negative issues that will get press in the coming years.
We can do this. We just need to figure out a legal frame work that:
Allows us to build faster bikes and ride them on the streets
But will keep people safe so the stupid e-squids don't kill themselves and make us look bad.
Doesn't cost anything for the government to implement
I'm at a loss at how to do this.
Believe me. Going 35mph is great on a road with a speed limit of 30mph. Doing 35mph on the shoulder of a road where the speed limit is 50mph is dangerous. Cars are unsure how to react and it takes too long for comfort for them to pass you, leaving you trapped between a car and the curb in a very narrow shoulder while traveling at speeds that would mean certain mortal injuries during an accident.
I just had a nice long chat with a reporter from the local newspaper about this, and the future of ebikes in texas. I really can only see the 20mph speed limit becoming strictly enforced. It sucks, but I don't see a way to safely allow bikes to go faster.
I really wish there was a way around this so people could build whatever bike they wanted. I'd be all for registration and insurance, if I could be totally legal. In the past I've suggested a tiered system. The first being electric bicycles, and the second being more powerful 35mph electrics. But there is no way they would allow some 16 year old kid to build a 35mph bike. The manufactures will lobby against it. The parents of the kid will be against. The media will be in a frenzy about these "dangerous and unregulated ebikes." Really, it sucks that we can't be trusted to safely build fast bikes, but the truth is people are stupid and it's a dangerous game.
If we want anything besides a 20mph ebike limit, the time for action is NOW, before our governments reflexively outlaw them based only on the negative issues that will get press in the coming years.
We can do this. We just need to figure out a legal frame work that:
Allows us to build faster bikes and ride them on the streets But will keep people safe so the stupid e-squids don't kill themselves and make us look bad. Doesn't cost anything for the government to implement I'm at a loss at how to do this.
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