I'm STUMPED! Help Me Please! BBSHD Broken

[Mündawg]

I have NO clue what is going on i successfully rode about 400 miles with my BBSHD and a 48v battery. I got a 52v battery and rode another 80+ miles and then out of nowhere i powered up the bike and this god awful sound, weird vibration and such. I have been getting more agressive with my rides going longer and farther so i always expected to do some work but i don't know what to look for in here. I know the clutch and Primary Nylon reduction can break and melt, respectively, but not sure if i should go pull it all apart. What do ya'll think? Could the 52v have done extra damage? Are burnouts and wheelies really bad for the BBSHD?
Cause i also been doing a lot of those...

[youtube]hKKkmI8YzOs[/youtube]

Thanks,
Mündawg

 

[tomjasz]

Its a guessing game until you open it up. Clutches are a weak spot by several accounts. Could be that simple. The nylon gear is an over exaggerated rumor. There have been a very few according to sevral resellers with high sales.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E45DcEE8w

 

[sather]

Open it up and inspect for adequate grease and condition of the gears. Then inspect the clutch/freewheel as in Tom Js post above. With the gears and gear housing off the motor, run the motor and see if the noise still persists. If it does, it is probably the nylon gear. You can find videos on youtube for replacing the nylon gear on a BBS02 which is a similar procedure. If replacing the nylon gear does not solve the problem, you will probably have to put Loctite 620 or 641 on the armature shaft because of a worn or missing o-ring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L69wDydc6V0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g0wEta4w-0

BTW: The nylon gear failure is not an exaggerated rumor. I lost two in my BBS02s and one became noisy in my BBSHD.

 

[tomjasz]

O

BTW: The nylon gear failure is not an exaggerated rumor. I lost two in my BBS02s and one became noisy in my BBSHD.

Thats three in tens of thousands.
If you have a conversation with 3 or four major resellers they may tell you the same thong they told me. A handful of failures with the BBSHD.
The BBS02 are almost always attributable to lugging or overheating the BBS02. Ask the biggest reseller. Biktrix, CalieBike, and Lectric can also confirm. Karl gets a lot of readers. Recently Uilleam on ES FB cooked one.

 

[m4k3r]

Are burnouts and wheelies really bad for the BBSHD?

For the most part, yes.

 

[tomjasz]

Are burnouts and wheelies really bad for the BBSHD?

For the most part, yes.

Haha... i missed that line. that is not a weak plastic gear...ffs....

 

[madnut]

Open it up its easier than an oil change in a car.

 

[sather]

Tomjasz
Why is it that Luna and California Ebike and Greenbikekit all carry replacement nylon gears if only "three in tens of thousands" fail?

Why is it that Lectric, Cal ebike and Empowered all de-tune their BBS02s to 18 amps (down from 25 amps) to keep the nylon gears from melting?

 

[Chalo]

Why is it that Lectric, Cal ebike and Empowered all de-tune their BBS02s to 18 amps (down from 25 amps) to keep the nylon gears from melting?

Have you considered it might be to bring output to within the legal limit for electric bicycles in most places? I wouldn't want to sell a product that's not legal for the buyer to use. Where I am, there's no wattage limit, but in most US states the limit is 750W.

 

[ziltoid81]

~12000km on a bbs01 @18A/36V with the first nylon gear.
Bought 4 nylon gears when i ordered the bbs, but never needed one.
The bbs is a bit louder now, but it works well.
Its a commuter bike, so dust, ice, rain, mud......for 12000km.

My guessing is that everything above 20A maybe kills the gear faster.

Its always a higher power setup when i read something about a failing gear.

 

[Mündawg]

Wow thanks for all the replies.
I just ordered a BBSHD installation tool.
Should be here in a few days.

 

[tomjasz]

Tomjasz
Why is it that Luna and California Ebike and Greenbikekit all carry replacement nylon gears if only "three in tens of thousands" fail?

Why is it that Lectric, Cal ebike and Empowered all de-tune their BBS02s to 18 amps (down from 25 amps) to keep the nylon gears from melting?

No one detunes to keep gears from melting. Anyone that detunes does so to keep the motor at a pace that will greatly extend it's lifecycle overall. Where ever did you pull that idea from?

 

[tomjasz]

Tomjasz
Why is it that Luna and California Ebike and Greenbikekit all carry replacement nylon gears if only "three in tens of thousands" fail?

Why is it that Lectric, Cal ebike and Empowered all de-tune their BBS02s to 18 amps (down from 25 amps) to keep the nylon gears from melting?

Um why do they carry clutches, bearings, pions,pinon plates and all the others? Probably because these are higher maintenance motors. If you want to find a problem part on the BBSHD look at the clutch. THAT is the biggest part failure. I' bough a gear in 2014 after reading all the paranoid posts. I still have it. Actually I have all three of the plastic gears. And duffus riders who lug and misuse their drives WILL cook the plastic gear. It's function of poor riding skills not part weakness. Loomat what the OP asked. Will burnouts hurt his motor? DOH! I'd rather a simple gear fail than an entire system. But DO have a spare clutch.

 

[sather]

At least that reply is more helpful and honest than just saying the problem doesn't exist with the BBS02. There are no instructions telling new owners to buy a smaller chainring (eg 30-32 tooth) and keep the rpms up. Instead these inexperienced people you call "duffus" use the stock 46 tooth chainring at low rpms and melt the nylon gear. My local Bafang dealer has experieced many melted nylon gears which is why the national distributor at the time (Lectric Cycles) started de-tuning the motors to 18 amps.

 

[tomjasz]

At least that reply is more helpful and honest than just saying the problem doesn't exist with the BBS02. There are no instructions telling new owners to buy a smaller chainring (eg 30-32 tooth) and keep the rpms up. Instead these inexperienced people you call "duffus" use the stock 46 tooth chainring at low rpms and melt the nylon gear. My local Bafang dealer has experieced many melted nylon gears which is why the national distributor at the time (Lectric Cycles) started de-tuning the motors to 18 amps.

EDIT People do win the lottery too. ARGH!
It's rare with riders who understand how to shift and use their bikes. Treating them like hub drives will melt gears. I still stand with the other dealers that just aren't seeing the problems. I guess I need to have another chat with Chris Head to understand why the dumbed down their drives. But they claim to have made other changes to their eRad and it's not a stock BBS02. Making them a not so good example IMO. I read hundreds if not thousands of customer emails many from BBSxx buyers. I still contend it's NOT all the issue that you and others claim. But that said, I'm bailing from BBSxx motors for other reasons. Bafang cold care less about the DIY market and gets worse instead of better about support.

 

[tomjasz]

At least that reply is more helpful and honest than just saying the problem doesn't exist with the BBS02. There are no instructions telling new owners to buy a smaller chainring (eg 30-32 tooth) and keep the rpms up. Instead these inexperienced people you call "duffus" use the stock 46 tooth chainring at low rpms and melt the nylon gear. My local Bafang dealer has experieced many melted nylon gears which is why the national distributor at the time (Lectric Cycles) started de-tuning the motors to 18 amps.

I took the time to make some contacts again today. I'm old sometimes I get confused...

But your posts are EXACTLY why I get argumentative. FACTS are once again twisted. Lectric DOES NOT DETUNE. That's direct from Lectric. They like the other resellers don't see the plastic gear a a big point of failure. It IS being a duffus to keep this bad anecdotal piece of misinformation alive. And that's from me, a guy who's loosing interest in anything Bafang. Just NOT the plastic gear rumor.

I was told I could quote Chris at Lectric, so here's another take...

"You can quote me on this.
Here is what I know about the nylon gear. First we don't detune to protect it. We only detune if a customer wants "in between power" (I.E more than 350 but less than 750 ) The nylon gear is reliable under normal riding conditions. A couple things that cause failures.

1) Using some types of grease directly on the gear or close to the gear, some grease can soften the gear. Red Mobile One bearing grease should be the only stuff you use anywhere on the motor.

2) Abusive riding. Riding/climbing in too high a gear (especially with a heavy load or snapping the throttle for wheelie action in low gear, especially with a 28t in front). Also using the throttle to start with the bike in high gear. Our customers that shift/ride the bike as if it did not have a motor have very few problems. We have seen motors with thousands of miles with no issues. If you ride it like a race car then it will have to rebuilt like a race car."

Interesting that the OP is doing burn outs and wheelies! User error not plastic gear.

 

[sather]

My local dealer purchased 20+ drives from Lectric and after multiple failures with the nylon gears and controllers (probably pre 3077 Mosfets), Lectric started de-tuning to 18amps. This was several years ago. The local dealer now buys from Luna which has much better wholesale prices than Lectric. I don't know what Lectric sets the controller to now.

I sent one of my BBS02s to Doug a California Ebike under warranty. He replaced a melted nylon gear and returned the drive set to 18 amps (it was set to 25 amps when I sent it to him.)

 

[tomjasz]

My local dealer purchased 20+ drives from Lectric and after multiple failures with the nylon gears and controllers (probably pre 3077 Mosfets), Lectric started de-tuning to 18amps. This was several years ago. The local dealer now buys from Luna which has much better wholesale prices than Lectric. I don't know what Lectric sets the controller to now.

I sent one of my BBS02s to Doug a California Ebike under warranty. He replaced a melted nylon gear and returned the drive set to 18 amps (it was set to 25 amps when I sent it to him.)

And yet Lectric tells another story as does Doug, both of whom I've spoken with, or communicated with, today.

You can lead a horse to water...

I give up....

 

[BeachRider2016]

To the OP,
Can you post some pics if you get around to fix it?
That would make this post helpful rather than it turning into a he said/she said opera.
Thank