Norway - help me understand

[jonathanm]

He is actually claiming to be part of a bigger deal than that.....

He claims he was a delegate at a meeting in London of 8-12 people from all over Europe who plotted to sow civil war across the continent in prelude to a right wing conservative christian takeover, and subsequent expulsion of all immigrants who refuse to assimilate within a generation.

He claims this group is not the usual rabble of skinhead thugs but well financed, well connected people, including an ex Serbian military commander.

I follow the exploits of the extreme right (and extreme left) in Europe, it's something of a hobby of mine. His claims are entirely plausible, unfortunately.

As for the press, well I agree that they generally hold more than their fair share of responsibility, though not in this case for giving him a voice. He emailed a 1500 page manifesto to several thousand people. The press has actually got a whole bunch of reporting just plain wrong, which is clear to anyone who reads this

Personally I want to know what this nutjob has to say. Know thine enemy, right?

If you want to understand, google for

"2083 A European Declaration Of Independence"

Just be prepared to trawl through 1500 pages of an arsehole justifying his own pathetic insecurity and glorifying his own importance.

 

[Joseph C.]

He is actually claiming to be part of a bigger deal than that.....

He claims he was a delegate at a meeting in London of 8-12 people from all over Europe who plotted to sow civil war across the continent in prelude to a right wing conservative christian takeover, and subsequent expulsion of all immigrants who refuse to assimilate within a generation.

He claims this group is not the usual rabble of skinhead thugs but well financed, well connected people, including an ex Serbian military commander.

I follow the exploits of the extreme right (and extreme left) in Europe, it's something of a hobby of mine. His claims are entirely plausible, unfortunately.

As for the press, well I agree that they generally hold more than their fair share of responsibility, though not in this case for giving him a voice. He emailed a 1500 page manifesto to several thousand people. The press has actually got a whole bunch of reporting just plain wrong, which is clear to anyone who reads this

Personally I want to know what this nutjob has to say. Know thine enemy, right?

If you want to understand, google for

"2083 A European Declaration Of Independence"

Just be prepared to trawl through 1500 pages of an arsehole justifying his own pathetic insecurity and glorifying his own importance.

Anything can be made to appear plausible with enough planning and a manipulative personality. I am sure the Norwegian authorities can handle it themselves. He may have had help but I seriously doubt it was an equal partnership - someone like him would need a co-dependent - certainly not someone who would challenge him (if he had help).

The worst thing you could do is give him free reign to disseminate his bile. That is what people of his kind live for and it offers a template to others of his ilk to use in future. Holding it in camera is the right thing to do. TV cameras should never be allowed into any courtroom, full-stop.

As for murdering him, well that is the easy thing to do, especially when you are angry, but then your little better than him and he wins as you run the risk of making him a martyr. Mute point anyway as thankfully the death penalty does not exist in Europe.

Best for the authorities to question him in private, check out his story, imprison him for life in a secure facility - with no access to other people, give him access to food, water, exercise...but put him in a facility in which he can never see another human being again and wait until he dies. He wants to go out with a bang - let him die with a whimper, alone.

If this right-wing xenophobic extremism in parts of Europe is as strong as what some commentators are making out - this could be the stab in the arm these people need to grab hold of their senses, grow up and stop looking for scapegoats to deal with their life problems.

 

[E-bike4life]

My heart and prayers go out to all the victims of this tragic event. May God ease their suffering and help them to recover.

Truly sad when people feel the need to take anothers life rather than just ending their own.

 

[jonathanm]

Anything can be made to appear plausible with enough planning and a manipulative personality. I am sure the Norwegian authorities can handle it themselves. He may have had help but I seriously doubt it was an equal partnership - someone like him would need a co-dependent - certainly not someone who would challenge him (if he had help).

You didn't read what I said. I said his back story is plausible based on prior knowledge of the existence of such groups and networks across Europe. It is nothing to do with him making anything appear plausible, based on the fact that it would be very hard to plan this kind of thing with a group of people without somebody noticing.

And I never said anything about him getting help from them. He said that he has planned the whole thing alone for 9 years, since he met them in 2002. This is based solely on his own words, true enough, though it is my personal opinion that this is also plausible.

The worst thing you could do is give him free reign to disseminate his bile. That is what people of his kind live for and it offers a template to others of his ilk to use in future. Holding it in camera is the right thing to do. TV cameras should never be allowed into any courtroom, full-stop.

His bile is the same crap spouted by Glenn Beck, Geert Wilders, Nick Griffin, etc, etc. What are we gonna do? Shut down the internet? Censor the TV? Prevent people from making speeches or writing books? don't think so. This crap is out there. I would rather know how these people work so we can figure out what to do about it. He details the entire planning of what he did in meticulous detail....very important information for anyone who is involved in stopping this kind of thing from happening.

If this right-wing xenophobic extremism in parts of Europe is as strong as what some commentators are making out - this could be the stab in the arm these people need to grab hold of their senses, grow up and stop looking for scapegoats to deal with their life problems.

Crackpots exists everywhere, not just in Europe. Look at the whole US militia "scene". Bunch of wingnuts.

 

[auraslip]

I tend to agree with both of you. Good discussion here.

 

[Philistine]

I read that Anonymous have proposed that they will be taking his 1500 page "manifesto", and deforming and defacing and reposting it everywhere, so noone will know what is the real one, and such that they will destroy his "legacy".

Which of course only piqued my interest in the thing (how dare they deny me the right to critically assess his ideas myself), so I went and downloaded a copy. I had presumed that it would just be the incoherent ramblings of a total nutbag. Boy was I wrong. I think the earlier poster who categorised him as a narcisist and sociopath was probably right. But his manifesto (which I presume 90% of the 1500 pages is a cut and past job from the internet anyway), is amazingly coherent, and consistent. I have only read his opening salvo on policital correctness, but I pretty much agree with 80% of it. His comments about the education system being coopted by marxists (in Australia at least) is simply an uncontroversial fact. And I have only started reading his rants about Islam being inherently and fundamentally totalitarian, well that is just passe as a comment (anyone who wants to argue with that, just ask Salman Rushdie how his personal security detail is working out for him).

And that is actually what breaks my heart about the whole thing. He isn't a classical nutbag. He has all the hallmarks or reason and sense, he just lacks any form of decency, empathy or humanity - hence my comment that I agree that he must be a sociopath or psychopath.

But I can't help but laugh at the irony, that Anonymous, the supposedly post post modern "organisation" that they are, would prove the mad man's ramblings on PC to be true (if you want to know what I mean by that, read his definition of "political correctness"). And this last sentence will also apply to anyone who screams abuse at me for having read or commented on his manifesto in light of the recent tragedy (Rushdie learnt how bittersweet being proven correct can be).

 

[Joseph C.]

Anything can be made to appear plausible with enough planning and a manipulative personality. I am sure the Norwegian authorities can handle it themselves. He may have had help but I seriously doubt it was an equal partnership - someone like him would need a co-dependent - certainly not someone who would challenge him (if he had help).

You didn't read what I said. I said his back story is plausible based on prior knowledge of the existence of such groups and networks across Europe. It is nothing to do with him making anything appear plausible, based on the fact that it would be very hard to plan this kind of thing with a group of people without somebody noticing.

And I never said anything about him getting help from them. He said that he has planned the whole thing alone for 9 years, since he met them in 2002. This is based solely on his own words, true enough, though it is my personal opinion that this is also plausible.

The worst thing you could do is give him free reign to disseminate his bile. That is what people of his kind live for and it offers a template to others of his ilk to use in future. Holding it in camera is the right thing to do. TV cameras should never be allowed into any courtroom, full-stop.

His bile is the same crap spouted by Glenn Beck, Geert Wilders, Nick Griffin, etc, etc. What are we gonna do? Shut down the internet? Censor the TV? Prevent people from making speeches or writing books? don't think so. This crap is out there. I would rather know how these people work so we can figure out what to do about it. He details the entire planning of what he did in meticulous detail....very important information for anyone who is involved in stopping this kind of thing from happening.

If this right-wing xenophobic extremism in parts of Europe is as strong as what some commentators are making out - this could be the stab in the arm these people need to grab hold of their senses, grow up and stop looking for scapegoats to deal with their life problems.

Crackpots exists everywhere, not just in Europe. Look at the whole US militia "scene". Bunch of wingnuts.

I did read what you said and I stand by everything I said. He should be shut up. Nothing he says will be true, unless he wants to lead people down a false path, let the authorities check out his story, that's their job, we don't have to know about it. The guy is highly manipulative, I don't believe in pathological liars but I believe he would lie whenever it suited him. Getting information out of this guy is a no-win situation.

I strongly believe that there is no global terrorist organisation coordinating attacks. There certainly wasn't with Al Qaeda. This may come to a shock to you but they didn't exist. There was no specific group called 'Al Qaeda' until the US gave them that name and there certainly was no global organisation with sleeping cells located in every country. Not one single cell has ever been found, not one member of Al Qaeda was ever found in Afghanistan either, Bin Laden was just there to make propaganda videos and even for that he had to pay soldiers to appear in these.

Despite the fact that Al Qaeda didn't exist that didn't stop innocent people from being tried for taking holiday videos and being flung in prison with no evidence against them whatsoever.

After the fundamentalist attack on the trade centres (the man responsible for the 9/11 attack was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed not Bin Laden) Bin Laden's group took the opportunity the U.S. gave them and became Al Qaeda.

I would strongly suggest that you don't take my word on this but look at an award-winning three-part documentary by the BBC called The Power Of Nightmares - the final part is the most relevant. Approach it with an open mind and ask yourself which makes more sense a global enemy that cannot be touched, sleeper cells that have never been found or a threat that was made up? Also have a look at the sources used and bear in mind that this is the BBC not Fox.

It is easy to lose sight of reality when you are presented with a picture of a highly dangerous world with individuals lurking everywhere trying to kill innocent people at the behest of a secret organisation. The evidence doesn't support these facts. What really happens is extremist individuals, usually working alone although sometimes in a group, adopt the flag of global terrorism and carry out atrocities.

Television is censored, always has been in all nations (including the US), and Fox would never exist in any country in Europe, it is a disgrace that America tolerates its constant lies.

No, you can't censor the Internet, nor should you, but you certainly can censor this murderer.

As for the xenophobes being crackpots, they're not. They are just misguided and prone to lazy-thinking. Rudderless young men with no guiding hand, which probably comprise the majority of these groups, can be very difficult. This happens all across the animal-kingdom with the higher animals - we are no different. Unchecked testosterone is a very potent hormone.

Huge chunks of populations are not insane but they can be misguided.

[youtube]5HvzR8w1z2g[/youtube]

 

[Joseph C.]

I read that Anonymous have proposed that they will be taking his 1500 page "manifesto", and deforming and defacing and reposting it everywhere, so noone will know what is the real one, and such that they will destroy his "legacy".

Which of course only piqued my interest in the thing (how dare they deny me the right to critically assess his ideas myself), so I went and downloaded a copy. I had presumed that it would just be the incoherent ramblings of a total nutbag. Boy was I wrong. I think the earlier poster who categorised him as a narcisist and sociopath was probably right. But his manifesto (which I presume 90% of the 1500 pages is a cut and past job from the internet anyway), is amazingly coherent, and consistent. I have only read his opening salvo on policital correctness, but I pretty much agree with 80% of it. His comments about the education system being coopted by marxists (in Australia at least) is simply an uncontroversial fact. And I have only started reading his rants about Islam being inherently and fundamentally totalitarian, well that is just passe as a comment (anyone who wants to argue with that, just ask Salman Rushdie how his personal security detail is working out for him).

And that is actually what breaks my heart about the whole thing. He isn't a classical nutbag. He has all the hallmarks or reason and sense, he just lacks any form of decency, empathy or humanity - hence my comment that I agree that he must be a sociopath or psychopath.

But I can't help but laugh at the irony, that Anonymous, the supposedly post post modern "organisation" that they are, would prove the mad man's ramblings on PC to be true (if you want to know what I mean by that, read his definition of "political correctness"). And this last sentence will also apply to anyone who screams abuse at me for having read or commented on his manifesto in light of the recent tragedy (Rushdie learnt how bittersweet being proven correct can be).

Let's hypothetically imagine that you are in a room with this guy and you want to convince him that his actions were wrong or perhaps some other thing.

The best case scenario you could hope for in that situation is to emerge with your belief system in tact, irrespective of how strong your personality is. The chances are high that you could end up accepting his viewpoint, that is what makes them so terrifying and why they shouldn't be given a voice.

These people can zero in on all your weaknesses as they try to destroy you. Thankfully, he doesn't have the ability to talk to you face-to-face but he is trying to do the exact same thing with that document. Just a warning, in order to persuade people you first have to meet them on common ground then gradually you turn them over to your view, very subtly. These people are fully rational but everything is superficial.

 

[Philistine]

He should be shut up. Nothing he says will be true, unless he wants to lead people down a false path,

That sounds somewhat totalitarian......

By the way the way, I have seen "the power of nightmares" (I burnt it to DVD) I consider it the finest piece of documentary making I have seen in the last five years, and agree with all of it. I don't believe Al Qaieda even exists (or if it does, it is like me and my poker buddies, ie, ten to fifteen idiots who big themselves up way more than they are).

And when you say you can sensor this murderer, I disagree. You can control his physcial movements, but if you are going to say you have the right to censor the words he has written (lest they be hate or violent filled), what stops the censoring of dissidents in Burma, Tibet, Iran?

 

[Philistine]

Sorry I doubled posted before I saw your response

Let's hypothetically imagine that you are in a room with this guy and you want to convince him that his actions were wrong or perhaps some other thing.

The best case scenario you could hope for in that situation is to emerge with your belief system in tact, irrespective of how strong your personality is. The chances are high that you could end up accepting his viewpoint, that is what makes them so terrifying and why they shouldn't be given a voice.

These people can zero in on all your weaknesses as they try to destroy you. Thankfully, he doesn't have the ability to talk to you face-to-face but he is trying to do the exact same thing with that document. Just a warning, in order to persuade people you first have to meet them on common ground then gradually you turn them over to your view, very subtly. These people are fully rational but everything is superficial.

Is this Morph talking to me? That really sounds like a Morphism, I am crying with laughter.....

So I get in a room with crazy Norway dude, and I decide that ripping Dum Dum bullets into Young Labor students is a good idea?

Mate I have dropped serious quantities of acid with hardenned robbers, but I have never done a blagging my friend.....

My belief system in tact?

Dude my belief system is pretty bare. If it emerges "in tact" it emerges that I believe that existence precedes essence. That I think, therefore I am. Nothing more. Geee..... after the brainwashing..... I still seem to be the ardent existentialist I always was. I don't need to persuade people about shit. I couldn't give a f*ck what people think. People are (in my experience) pretty stupid (they believe in god). If the mad guy displays racism or xenophobia (in my mind), he isn't "wrong" he is "irrational".

 

[Joseph C.]

He should be shut up. Nothing he says will be true, unless he wants to lead people down a false path,

That sounds somewhat totalitarian......

By the way the way, I have seen "the power of nightmares" (I burnt it to DVD) I consider it the finest piece of documentary making I have seen in the last five years, and agree with all of it. I don't believe Al Qaieda even exists (or if it does, it is like me and my poker buddies, ie, ten to fifteen idiots who big themselves up way more than they are).

And when you say you can sensor this murderer, I disagree. You can control his physcial movements, but if you are going to say you have the right to censor the words he has written (lest they be hate or violent filled), what stops the censoring of dissidents in Burma, Tibet, Iran?

Yes, you are correct it is a fine line, a very fine line that is very difficult to thread. I was perhaps too angry when I commented that he should be isolated for the rest of his life, that was wrong and would make me little better than him.

It is a delicate position but the needs of the many outweigh the few. I believe that some countries already have policies in place forbidding any media contact with these types of people, the UK is one I believe. Freedom of speech is a core freedom but it should be always subservient to that of justice.

Who decides and what is justice and what is not, is impossible to answer definitely and the best you can hope for is competent people asking these sort of questions on an individual basis. There is an important distinction to be made here. We aren't talking about Burma, Tibet or Iran, we are talking about a proper democratic country, in a democratic region of the world.

But the idea of giving these people a narcissistic supply by allowing them access to the media is very disturbing and dangerous. The public good and the interest of justice are always above the freedom of speech. In the case of Manson such continued folly caused more deaths. There is nothing to be gained by allowing this guy to speak and the chances of a lot being lost.

It is not as if he has some great understanding to impart, these people don't have any depth to them, there are no deep thought processes - nothing is properly formulated. There is a superficial, glib surface but there is nothing underneath it. (I'm assuming this guy is an antisocial narcissist.) If he is, I can assure you this guy is an expert at nothing apart from pretending to be an expert.

I better do some work, or else I will be in trouble. Ironically it is a film review of Tree of Life - which deals with these themes!

 

[Joseph C.]

Sorry I doubled posted before I saw your response

Let's hypothetically imagine that you are in a room with this guy and you want to convince him that his actions were wrong or perhaps some other thing.

The best case scenario you could hope for in that situation is to emerge with your belief system in tact, irrespective of how strong your personality is. The chances are high that you could end up accepting his viewpoint, that is what makes them so terrifying and why they shouldn't be given a voice.

These people can zero in on all your weaknesses as they try to destroy you. Thankfully, he doesn't have the ability to talk to you face-to-face but he is trying to do the exact same thing with that document. Just a warning, in order to persuade people you first have to meet them on common ground then gradually you turn them over to your view, very subtly. These people are fully rational but everything is superficial.

Is this Morph talking to me? That really sounds like a Morphism, I am crying with laughter.....

So I get in a room with crazy Norway dude, and I decide that ripping Dum Dum bullets into Young Labor students is a good idea?

Mate I have dropped serious quantities of acid with hardenned robbers, but I have never done a blagging my friend.....

My belief system in tact?

Dude my belief system is pretty bare. If it emerges "in tact" it emerges that I believe that existence precedes essence. That I think, therefore I am. Nothing more. Geee..... after the brainwashing..... I still seem to be the ardent existentialist I always was. I don't need to persuade people about shit. I couldn't give a f*ck what people think. People are (in my experience) pretty stupid (they believe in god). If the mad guy displays racism or xenophobia (in my mind), he isn't "wrong" he is "irrational".

Morph certainly not, I gave him some advice on how to lose weight once - I won't be repeating that! 'Pissing' and 'wind' comes to mind.

The theists could be right, you never know - though the 'God' could be very different from what they imagine.

Fair enough you could have an iron-clad belief system but every account I have read/watched from people who interacted with these people suggests what I have said. Off the top of my head Stan Walters is one. Although his book 'The Truth About Lying: How To Spot A Lie' is a bit misleading - after reading you quickly realise that you won't be spotting lies too quickly without a lot of practice!

The goalpost of killing 76 people (numbers were revised downwards) would be too far but he would probably know that. He would move it to somewhere more reachable.

Anyway, it was a pleasure debating with you. Good luck, off to do some work, at last...!

 

[jonathanm]

I did read what you said and I stand by everything I said. He should be shut up. Nothing he says will be true, unless he wants to lead people down a false path, let the authorities check out his story, that's their job, we don't have to know about it. The guy is highly manipulative, I don't believe in pathological liars but I believe he would lie whenever it suited him. Getting information out of this guy is a no-win situation.

You see this is what I'm talking about.I am quite capable of checking out his story myself. I will do so and come to my own conclusions. I am aware he is highly manipulative. But many of his assertions can be checked very easily. I am not going to sit with my head up my arse getting spoon fed info by the media, the police and the government. You on the other hand are happy to take what you read in the media, make a bunch of assumptions, and let someone else deal with the problem.

I strongly believe that there is no global terrorist organisation coordinating attacks. There certainly wasn't with Al Qaeda. This may come to a shock to you but they didn't exist. There was no specific group called 'Al Qaeda' until the US gave them that name and there certainly was no global organisation with sleeping cells located in every country. Not one single cell has ever been found, not one member of Al Qaeda was ever found in Afghanistan either, Bin Laden was just there to make propaganda videos and even for that he had to pay soldiers to appear in these.

Now you're off on a tangent. This has nothing to do with Al Quaeda. I am in complete agreement with you about Al Quaeda. In fact the media will have a field day about a shadowy organisation behind these attacks, and the "sleeper cells" waiting etc. But I this is not the case here at all.

But THERE IS a tiny minority of Europeans who are prepared to commit atrocities to promote their xenophobic world view.

This is not happening in some far off land, in a cave or some hollywood hideout. It's happening "down your street" and mine. They went to my school, and sat next to me in class. These people did not go to romanticised terrorist training camps to learn their ideology, they developed it in the pubs and on the football terraces of Europe. They hang out on well know internet forums, and attend rallies by the BNP and the EDL (in the UK) and similar groups in other countries. I know them (some of them) and they know me.

Al Qaeda didn't exist ... innocent people ... prison ...no evidence...

Agree totally.

After ...9/11 ... Bin Laden's group took the opportunity...

Agree this is plausible and lots of people have "evidence" to support it, but I have nothing to allow me to form a concrete opinion. I do know however that the official line is BS

....The Power Of Nightmares...BBC not Fox.

Watched it, agree with, no arguments there. But be careful - the BBC is not Fox, true, but it has it's own issues and problems.

It is easy to lose sight of reality when you are presented with a picture of a highly dangerous world with individuals lurking everywhere trying to kill innocent people at the behest of a secret organisation. The evidence doesn't support these facts. What really happens is extremist individuals, usually working alone although sometimes in a group, adopt the flag of global terrorism and carry out atrocities.

Ok, you have got it partly correct here. but I'm afraid the evidence DOES support the facts. Not the facts you made up or assumed, but the facts that I am talking about. Some of which are in his writings. And there is no "flag of global terrorism" This is totally naive. This image of danger lurking round every corner, you are in fact helping to perpetuate by bringing it up here. No-one else mentioned it.

EDL and BNP members have been climbing over each other to distance themselves from this guy. But he was friends with some of them. He came to visit them, talk to them, go to football matches with them. AND march with them. He marched with them in my home town. I doubt they knew the extent of his plans, but they knew him and shared the same views.

Searchlight magazine has evidence that it will publish showing his links to the EDL. Police FIT teams and anti fascist activists have thousands of photos of these people. His connections to the far right mainstream will be uncovered.

This is why it is important that people know his views. Unless the connection is made between the ideology of nutjobs like him and the ideology of the outwardly respectable fascist-lite BNP and EDL and their counterparts all over Europe, then naive people will continue to support xenophobia and fear the shadows lurking in the corners.

Television is censored,

No it isn't. Television broadcasters have an agenda. This is not the same as censorship.

No, you can't censor the Internet, nor should you, but you certainly can censor this murderer.

If you disagree with censorship, you cannot apply it selectively. Who gets to decide? IF we want free speech then we have to accept the unpleasantness that may sometimes come with that freedom. This is why the liberal (and largely Jewish) ACLU defended the Illinois Nazis in 1977. Because they understand that once the censorship starts, it is at the whim of whoever has been put in charge of it.

As for the xenophobes being crackpots, they're not. They are just misguided and prone to lazy-thinking. Rudderless young men with no guiding hand, which probably comprise the majority of these groups, can be very difficult. This happens all across the animal-kingdom with the higher animals - we are no different. Unchecked testosterone is a very potent hormone.

Again you put words into my mouth. The crackpot xenophobess are a subset of the xenophobes (in this case). Not all xenophobes are crackpots and not all crackpots are xenophobes.

Huge chunks of populations are not insane but they can be misguided.

Yes indeed, so lets show them what his ideology is and how it stacks up with other xenophobic philosophies. We can counter his arguments and point out the flaws in his logic. We cannot do this if his writings are censored.

 

[Joseph C.]

Very hard to argue with the main trust of your argument. They are well-formed.

I don't agree that freedom of speech should be placed above justice and I already mentioned the concerns that you brought up about this. Justice should be the highest freedom, its is the freedom which allows all other freedoms to exist and it is the only freedom that is absolute. It isn't the other way round.

Your point about xenophobes being everywhere is well made but a little off-point. The real question is how many of those would be willing to murder people, to do what that extremist did? I am betting not many.

It is pointless censoring what is already in the public domain, I'm not advocating that. Rather I am saying that he should be prevented from saying anything else to the public.

TV is censored as they are regulated by broadcasting standards. Speaking about station's agendas is irrelevant - they aren't the regulators. The system may not be perfect but it is censored, especially in Europe. Could you imagine a station like Fox disseminating propaganda and passing it off as news over here? It wouldn't happen. That's not to say that this element isn't creeping in and narratives aren't being spun but it is not as extreme yet.

Edit: Just to add that your distinction between complete and partial censorship in terms of wondering about who decides is erroneous. All censorship is partial. Once censorship exists to any degree - select people are choosing what is acceptable and what is not. It doesn't matter if it classed complete or partial all censorship is part censorship.

I honestly believe that this guy's actions will get a lot of these people to come to their senses.

"Yes indeed, so lets show them what his ideology is and how it stacks up with other xenophobic philosophies. We can counter his arguments and point out the flaws in his logic. We cannot do this if his writings are censored."

Ordinarily, I would agree with you. But psychologists maintain that the quest for fame or infamy is one of the chef motivating factors as to why these people commit these crimes. It would irresponsible to promote him and you would be inadvertently promoting more of these types of crimes.

 

[MikeFairbanks]

Hey Aussie guy: There are not communists running the Australian school system.

There really isn't a strong communist movement anywhere. It died out long ago. Look at the big picture. The only two nations still holding on to a shred of that ideology are N. Korea and Cuba. Even Fidel Castro has gone on record recently as saying that their economic system is failed, and North Korea is just the hermit kingdom.

The truth is that there are no communist nations and there never were any. Communism was just a vehicle for people to gain power, and once in power they abandoned it.

If you want to see an example of real communism (but without that label) visit the Amish in America. They literally share everything they have with each other. But they are not considered communists because they believe in God and their system isn't mandated. Anyone is free to leave.

Capitalism is the way of the world, and always has been. When the first caveman had three fish, and his buddy caught two rabbits, a trade happened, and the rest is history. Then the first caveman traded another fish for a pretty shell. When he returned to his cave, he had fish for dinner, rabbit for breakfast the next day, and something nice to give to his wife. Pure capitalism at its finest.
---------------------------

About the Norway guy: His fifteen minutes of fame will end soon, and he'll just be another piece on the trash pile of history. Jim Jones, the Heaven's Gate cult, Charles Manson, etc. Just selfish people with violence as their only means because that's all they are good for. They may or may not burn in hell. I don't know and it's not my decision. But they don't get the glory and they are soon enough forgotten.

They are the losers of society. The best way to strike back at them is lock them up, throw away the key, and ignore their existence. They want attention. That is what they crave. It's their drug.

Don't let them have any.

 

[Philistine]

Hey Aussie guy: There are not communists running the Australian school system.

I presume that is a reference to me? Go back and read my post, I didn't say it was run by Communists, I said it had been coopted by Marxists - there is an important difference. Did you get your education in Australia? I did. And my wife is a school teacher and I got to watch her go through teacher training. So I think I might be a bit more qualified to talk on the matter than you are. I am not saying all teachers in Australia are Marxists, I am just saying that there is an extreme and obvious left wing bias in the Australian education system (the public system anyway, I can't comment on the private education system as I have never been to a private school or experienced them in any way), I don't think it is a controversial point to make - noone with experience of it or any basic intellect in Australia would argue otherwise.

 

[jonathanm]

I am just saying that there is an extreme and obvious left wing bias in the Australian education system

I think that tends to be the case in most countries.

 

[MikeFairbanks]

I'm glad there's a left wing bias in education.

And it makes sense, because education is what cures poverty and frees people.

 

[John in CR]

I'm glad there's a left wing bias in education.

And it makes sense, because education is what cures poverty and frees people.

These statements are totally unrelated. The simplest correction is to add "no" just before "sense".

Left wing bias has no more place in education than the idiotic push by far right loons to add creationism to science class. Other than in Civics class, politics has no place in school. Thank goodness the effects of this bias rapidly wears off for most out in the rear world.