Milan SL velomobile conversion

[The Toecutter]

I'm planning to convert a Milan SL velomobile in my possession to an EV.

It is highly efficient. For the same effort to hold 14 mph on a mountainbike on flat ground, I can hold 30 mph in this thing. I can hit 50 mph on flat ground after one and a half miles of full-effort sprinting, entirely unmotorized.

It currently weighs about 70 lbs. Front wheels are 20" Alex rims with Continental Contact Urban 20x1.25" tires, and the rear wheel is an Alex 26" with a Schwalbe Marathon 26x1.25" tire. 24/38/53T gearing up front and a 36-11T 9-speed cassette in the back.

Plans are to spot weld together and install a custom-made 21S4P 1kWh pack of Panasonic NCR18650GA 3.5AH cells and run it at 2kW peak and maybe 50A max phase current, with a Grin All-Axle rear hub motor and a Phaserunner controller. Maybe should be good for 70 mph top speed with a 5T wind or 80 mph top speed with a 3T wind. Range should exceed 200 miles at 30-35 mph with light pedaling effort, and 100 miles at 60 mph.

Pics of the vehicle:

 

[Barncat]

Cool, Milans are about the top of the heap in the reverse trike velo world. Like the green/white color scheme too.

High speed with lower power input is of course all about streamlining and laminar flow. And recumbents are best suited to flat or just mildly hilly terrain. I know, I built 3 different designs many years ago. Lousy climbers, hence perfect for electric motors.

Decades ago I went to the Indy 500 race track where the Human Powered Vehicle association was holding its annual speed trials meet. Gardner Martin and his fully faired Easy Racer two wheeler were king back then. A guy from the UK, I believe Mike Burrows was there and needed a rider for his partially faired reverse trike in the hour time trial. I volunteered, and managed something like 27 or 28 miles to the Easy Racers I think mid 40's effort. Fred somebody was piloting that one...

If you don't mind me asking- how much did the Milan set you back? Did you find it used here in the US or buy new?

You've got quite a few miles on your previous trike as I recall. Any near-death events out on the roads thus far? I don't know that I'm ever going to get serious about picking up one of these and riding in heavy Pinellas county FL traffic... but I'm also never going to do the enormous amount of work to build a proper fairing. How many times have cops stopped you, if ever? They couldn't care less about regular ebikes here so that's great at least.

 

[The Toecutter]

Cool, Milans are about the top of the heap in the reverse trike velo world. Like the green/white color scheme too.

It wasn't my ideal color scheme, but it does look nice. At some point after I convert the Milan to electric, I'm going to paint over the gelcoat and have a decal made to make it resembled the Jetbike from Chrono Trigger. Except I won't have a robot named Johnny to race...

High speed with lower power input is of course all about streamlining and laminar flow. And recumbents are best suited to flat or just mildly hilly terrain. I know, I built 3 different designs many years ago. Lousy climbers, hence perfect for electric motors.

The electric motor is definitely wanted for uphill climbs. Too many places are sealed off from access without going over roads with 40+ mph speed limits, and these roads often have 5%+ gradients and no sidewalk or shoulder with lots of impatient SUV/truck operators paying attention to their phones.

If you don't mind me asking- how much did the Milan set you back? Did you find it used here in the US or buy new?

I bought it used from Larry Oslund for a bit over $8k.

You've got quite a few miles on your previous trike as I recall. Any near-death events out on the roads thus far? I don't know that I'm ever going to get serious about picking up one of these and riding in heavy Pinellas county FL traffic... but I'm also never going to do the enormous amount of work to build a proper fairing. How many times have cops stopped you, if ever? They couldn't care less about regular ebikes here so that's great at least.

The Milan also has about 15k miles on it since I bought it in June 2021.

Lots of near-death events if you count near-misses by careless people. It's also been in two hit-and-run accidents, one of them deliberate. The cops stop me very frequently. Between the custom build velo and the Milan, I've been stopped 34 times since March 2018. Sometimes, the cops had their guns drawn and pointed at me for no reason.

 

[The Toecutter]

Here's calculated performance of my proposed setup with a 5T All-Axle, limited to 50A phase current and 2kW:

Motor Simulator - Tools

Range at 35 mph pedaling lightly:

Motor Simulator - Tools

Range at 60 mph pedaling moderately:

Motor Simulator - Tools

 

[Barncat]

Ya gotta be pretty hardcore to drop 8 grand on a trike... And you've had a very high number of sketchy traffic and cop events. Unfortunate. As you are acutely aware, these vehicles occupy a very gray area in terms of road use and safety. Some a-holes would just as soon run you over.

There is essentially zero motorist/cultural awareness of what a velomobile is, and the incredible energy efficiency they are capable of. E-powered or E-assisted fully faired reverse trikes would make outstanding 3 season personal transportation, but we're generations away from acceptance of that, which is why I abandoned that idea 30 years ago. Hang in there.

 

[The Toecutter]

There is essentially zero motorist/cultural awareness of what a velomobile is, and the incredible energy efficiency they are capable of. E-powered or E-assisted fully faired reverse trikes would make outstanding 3 season personal transportation, but we're generations away from acceptance of that, which is why I abandoned that idea 30 years ago. Hang in there.

I've been using mine as dailies in all 4 seasons, as car substitutes.

I built and started riding my first trike in 2016. It was a Thunderbolt purchased for $500 in non-ridable shape in 2015 and restored. I did not get to finish it as intended. It was run over by a truck weeks after getting it ridable while chained up in a parking lot of a restaurant, and the body shell I was working on got destroyed during an attempted home break-in and ensuing fight after one of my roommates was thrown on the plug/mold with fiberglass layed on it by one of the burglars. I got about 7 months out of that trike before the front of the frame completely failed as a result of having been run over. I got maybe 800 miles out of it after spending over $1,000 total.

I built the KMX in the kitchen of an apartment in 2016. It is approaching 80k miles on the original frame. It was turned into a front-suspension velomobile in late 2017, received an upgraded body shell in 2020, and finally converted to electric in late 2020. It has been upgraded to DOT rims/tires, more power, hydraulic disc brakes, and full suspension since its electric conversion. I'm set on eventually getting that thing to hit over 100 mph and converted to AWD(for both performance and snow riding) and 20+ kW so it can accelerate like a Dodge Charger Hellcat. I promise to commit all sorts of hooliganism, hooning, and general jackassery with it.

The Milan will be there as a second vehicle. I use it as one, even unmotorized. It doesn't need to be particularly fast, but it will be fast enough, and extremely efficient.

I also have a mountainbike conversion in case both are down.

I might build one more ebike after all these. Perhaps an enclosed 3-wheeled adult delta trike made for about 20 mph, as I need something that can substitute for a pickup truck and to haul stuff. Thinking of making something akin to Amberwolf's build for this application.

 

[Papa]

Yo TC.... Does that rig have suspension? I'm guessing not.

 

[The Toecutter]

Yo TC.... Does that rig have suspension? I'm guessing not.

The Milan has full suspension. McPherson struts up front, a gas shock in the back.

 

[Papa]

Reason I ask, was I noticed the skinny tires you're using... on the street no less. Have you given much thought to slightly wider rubber.

Roads here are infamous chip-seal. That said, I'm closely eyeing Big Apples or their Super Motor 2.40's to help absorb the harsh vibrations. The difference in rolling resistance is negligible, if you chose carefully.

 

[The Toecutter]

Reason I ask, was I noticed the skinny tires you're using... on the street no less. Have you given much thought to slightly wider rubber.

Roads here are infamous chip-seal. That said, I'm closely eyeing Big Apples or their Super Motor 2.40's to help absorb the harsh vibrations. The difference in rolling resistance is negligible, if you chose carefully.

Wider rubber won't fit in the wheel wells. With the front wheels, wider rubber reduces my possible turning radius with rubbing, and a wider rear tire will rub inside the wheel well.

I have the widest that will fit.

I ride on poorly-maintained roads littered with debris. My tires are fairly puncture-resistant. I get a puncture once every 4,000 miles on average. The tires chosen are intended for ebike use, but the thing is unmotorized at this time.

Lack of sufficient ground clearance is a worse problem than the narrow tires. I find myself having to do carbon fiber repair of the underside once a year.

 

[amberwolf]

Perhaps an enclosed 3-wheeled adult delta trike made for about 20 mph, as I need something that can substitute for a pickup truck and to haul stuff. Thinking of making something akin to Amberwolf's build for this application.

There are two versions of the SBC that were open-bed "trucks" that might be adaptable:

 

[Papa]

AW, why such a humongous trailer hitch? I use air hose couplings - most of mine are used, but you can snag them at HF pretty inexpensively. Just use a short (maybe 2-3") length of hydraulic hose between the trike's frame, and the male coupler. IIRC, Bike Friday, ages ago, used a similar trailer hitch setup.

 

[amberwolf]

I used the automotive ball hitch because I knew they would not fail under any loading situation I would be able to haul with CrazyBike2, and I could attach "any" trailer I might run across that needed hauling (realistically would only have been the one my friend BIll had, that he pulled behind his Kawasaki). The first one I used because i already had the ball, found on the side of the road, and harborfright had a clearance trailer-end hitch for a few bucks....
https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/threads/amberwolfs-flatbed-kennel-trailer-mk-iii.63781/


Then I used it on SB Cruiser when I built that because I was already using it for my trailer for CB2....

By then I'd already learned about pintle hitches and such that could probably do what I wanted even better, but I already had the hardware.

Will air hose couplings do this? If so, I could use them...if not, no. I rarely but sometimes need to haul several hundred pounds on the trailer (and would like the option to haul twice as much as either of those loads, up to at least half a ton, without any risk of hitch failures...I expect my frame work / design would probably fail before the hitch, and I know that none of my existing trailers could physically handle that much weight).

 

[Papa]

Just thinkin' in terms of weight reduction. As you already know, reducing vehicle weight is equivalent to increasing HP. Will discuss further in a more appropriate thread.

 

[The Toecutter]

Got a Grin All-axle 5T rear on the way for the Milan. I have to build the 21S pack for it. I decided on the 5T because wiring is my bottleneck with a faster wind. Since there's only going to be one motor powering it, I opted for electrical reliability over an extra 10 mph top end(which I'm almost never going to use anyway). With stock Phaserunner wiring and the L10 connector, I could in theory do 45A continuous, so I want that 45A to make as much torque as possible, and it should still be sufficiently low so as not to damage my irreplaceable dual-sided rear swingarm. At 75.6V, the Milan should still be good for 70 mph or so, which is plenty. That motor will never overheat when limited to 2kW with Statorade in it, and probably won't even use 2kW at top speed on flat ground. If I decide I want more speed, I'll go with a higher voltage controller/battery at a later date.

This thing is going to be cool...