Nightdiver13
10 mW
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2019
- Messages
- 27
TL;DR - 400lbs gross vehicle weight, 25% hill, long john bike. TSDZ2, BBSHD, BBS02, or hub motor?
For the last couple of years I've been planning on adding a motor system to my long john, but I've got complete analysis paralysis and could use some help from folks who have first hand experience with some of the options that are out there. Every time I'm about to pull the trigger I second guess it and go back to the research.
My bike is a long john with 26" rear and 20" front. Typical rides will involve a total vehicle weight of about 400lbs, carrying two kids and myself over various terrain including a 200m long, 25% hill and many other less steep (but longer) hills. I currently own a longtail with Bosch Cargo motor (85Nm) geared to about 26" on the low end. With that bike and same load, I can just barely get up the 25% hill by grinding it out and/or doing a bit of zig-zagging. With the long-john geared to 17" on the low end I can crawl up that hill, but it is brutal.
I've owned other Bosch system bikes so have lots of experience on what a pedal assist torque sensing system feels like. I've used a couple of Bafang BBS02 bikes, but that was a while ago and I don't recall being particularly impressed with the experience. But I know that how you configure those motors can have a big impact on ride quality. I've never used a hub motor bike so have no frame of reference for that.
My research has focused on the TSDZ2, BBSHD, BBS02, and a couple of front hub motors with slower winds to take advantage of the 20" front wheel. My budget for the motor system, not including battery, is about $700 which rules out some things like the Grin All-Axle. I can't really imagine ever wanting to use throttle, and the riding experience is important to me. But I'm also open to new things.
TSDZ2 on paper is perfect. Torque sensing, claimed 100Nm of torque for the 750W version, relatively cheap and light. But it sounds like a total gamble in terms of reliability. So many different and common issues with that motor, not to mention the Bafang lawsuit which leaves it in a weird place.
BBSHD and BBS02 next runners up. Most recommend the BBSHD as soon as cargo and hills is mentioned, but I'm never sure how folks use the motor. Do they typically just go full throttle with minimal pedal input and/or gear shifting? As I plan to ride the bike in a typical bike fashion, is the BBSHD still required, or is the BBS02 plenty? The specs put the BBS02 at 120Nm of torque which is massive already.
Down side to all of these mid-drives is the extra wide (and sometimes offset) Q-factor, and of course the extra wear on the drivetrain, which I'm not too bothered about. Often certain hubs get recommended, but generally not with the load and hill I'm dealing with. DD hub regen sounds nice on paper too since I have a long descent and it sounds cool to get that hub braking effect.
Since I've never used a hub motor (and can't test any on my bike) I never know how to interpret what people claim about them, especially since I'll read just as many folks saying that they just aren't up to it and stick with mid-drives. I've run the Grin simulator and some of the motors seem to pass the test, but I'm skeptical about the user experience. It's not enough to just not fail from overheating.
So, any help is appreciated. I'm sick of thinking about this and just want to move forward. But at the same time don't want to spend the time and money on a system that I'll either hate using, or won't be up to snuff, and want to swap out for something else.
Thanks!
For the last couple of years I've been planning on adding a motor system to my long john, but I've got complete analysis paralysis and could use some help from folks who have first hand experience with some of the options that are out there. Every time I'm about to pull the trigger I second guess it and go back to the research.
My bike is a long john with 26" rear and 20" front. Typical rides will involve a total vehicle weight of about 400lbs, carrying two kids and myself over various terrain including a 200m long, 25% hill and many other less steep (but longer) hills. I currently own a longtail with Bosch Cargo motor (85Nm) geared to about 26" on the low end. With that bike and same load, I can just barely get up the 25% hill by grinding it out and/or doing a bit of zig-zagging. With the long-john geared to 17" on the low end I can crawl up that hill, but it is brutal.
I've owned other Bosch system bikes so have lots of experience on what a pedal assist torque sensing system feels like. I've used a couple of Bafang BBS02 bikes, but that was a while ago and I don't recall being particularly impressed with the experience. But I know that how you configure those motors can have a big impact on ride quality. I've never used a hub motor bike so have no frame of reference for that.
My research has focused on the TSDZ2, BBSHD, BBS02, and a couple of front hub motors with slower winds to take advantage of the 20" front wheel. My budget for the motor system, not including battery, is about $700 which rules out some things like the Grin All-Axle. I can't really imagine ever wanting to use throttle, and the riding experience is important to me. But I'm also open to new things.
TSDZ2 on paper is perfect. Torque sensing, claimed 100Nm of torque for the 750W version, relatively cheap and light. But it sounds like a total gamble in terms of reliability. So many different and common issues with that motor, not to mention the Bafang lawsuit which leaves it in a weird place.
BBSHD and BBS02 next runners up. Most recommend the BBSHD as soon as cargo and hills is mentioned, but I'm never sure how folks use the motor. Do they typically just go full throttle with minimal pedal input and/or gear shifting? As I plan to ride the bike in a typical bike fashion, is the BBSHD still required, or is the BBS02 plenty? The specs put the BBS02 at 120Nm of torque which is massive already.
Down side to all of these mid-drives is the extra wide (and sometimes offset) Q-factor, and of course the extra wear on the drivetrain, which I'm not too bothered about. Often certain hubs get recommended, but generally not with the load and hill I'm dealing with. DD hub regen sounds nice on paper too since I have a long descent and it sounds cool to get that hub braking effect.
Since I've never used a hub motor (and can't test any on my bike) I never know how to interpret what people claim about them, especially since I'll read just as many folks saying that they just aren't up to it and stick with mid-drives. I've run the Grin simulator and some of the motors seem to pass the test, but I'm skeptical about the user experience. It's not enough to just not fail from overheating.
So, any help is appreciated. I'm sick of thinking about this and just want to move forward. But at the same time don't want to spend the time and money on a system that I'll either hate using, or won't be up to snuff, and want to swap out for something else.
Thanks!