Jay64
100 kW
What will you use to actuate the caliper? Hydraulic or cable?
Motorcycle class Hub Motor
- Thread starter markcycle
- Start date
markcycle
10 kW
Thinking Hydraulic matter of fact I just order a Hydraulic Dot4 rear brake from a small motorcycle from T Motorsport. I will have to adapt it as it is designed for foot operation (or keep the foot pedal for rear braking).
Mark
Mark
oatnet
1 MW
I look forward to seeing your testing. If this works out and the price is right I'd be interested in picking up one or two.
-JD
-JD
Jay64
100 kW
If you are making it for a rear wheel, then I would suggest keeping the foot pedal. If you are making it for a front wheel, that brings up another question. A lot of bikes are coming out with "upsidedown" forks. Those are usually on the bigger bikes, but even some of the dirtbikes are coming out with the "upsidedown" forks. If that is the case what would you be attaching the torque arm to?
markcycle
10 kW
Jay64 said:
For all the reasons you mentioned plus the front wheel is the major stopping wheel on a bike huge forces on the disc which would transfer to the hubs side cover. I am sticking with the rear wheel for the Hub motor. I'd rather deal with the weight a rear wheel needs to handle then the responsibility of front wheel braking. In the rear Regen plus a moderate aftermarket disc brake for drum conversion ( where necessary) tied to a strong torque arm will work out fine.
Mark
I have a 1975 Yamaha RD350 rolling chassis for electric conversion. It has 7.75 inches room in the rear swingarm, but it narrows slightly going forward.
The weight of a hub motor will be a minus for suspension performance, but the quietness and space for batteries will be nice.
The weight of a hub motor will be a minus for suspension performance, but the quietness and space for batteries will be nice.
markcycle
10 kW
gogo said:
I took a look at the RD350 Yea that would be a good bike for the Hub Motor and 7.75 is a perfect spacing. The thing is The motor won't be for a sale for about 6 to 8 weeks I figure. It could be sooner depending. But sea shipments, customs and other obstacles encountered importing makes its a crap shoot pinning down an exact time. If you can wait I'll give you a great deal for being one of the first to buy this new motor. It will be well tested by the time production quantities hit these shores, that I can guarantee.
Mark
I won't have any riding weather for a few months anyway. Hopefully the availability and price of lithium batteries will continue their rapid improvements in the interim.
The RD350 put out about 30 HP peak and they made a reduced displacement RD250 @ 22 HP, so this hub motor should be well suited for the 45 MPH speed limits in my town.
The RD350 put out about 30 HP peak and they made a reduced displacement RD250 @ 22 HP, so this hub motor should be well suited for the 45 MPH speed limits in my town.
markcycle said:
Man, that is *spiff*!
I need to get the Lead Sled done and then own up to all my mistakes.
Then I can think about getting some kind of 350-500cc class bike and putting something together with this. 
Good idea, BTW, to keep the rear brake on a pedal. Us hardcore motorcycle types will tend to put our heads in "motorcycle" setting instead of "bicycle" in a tight spot. I know I'd be stomping my right foot if my brain thought I was on a motorcycle. (Let's set aside the fact that I learned on a motorcycle that only had a rear brake, a foot clutch, and hand shift. Try to stop on a steep uphill... 
)I'm gonna guess I just found another summer project. *sigh* I need a longer summer.
markcycle
10 kW
Skiv said:markcycle said:
Man, that is *spiff*!
I need to get the Lead Sled done and then own up to all my mistakes.
I'm gonna guess I just found another summer project. *sigh* I need a longer summer.
The consensus is in, Foot brake it is. The thing is if your bike is a drum brake bike then you will have to adapt a master cylinder to a linkage style foot pedal, so its more work for the purchaser but less for me. Getting a left hand motorcycle brake lever would be a lot more work for me. I think for those who really want plug and play I will offer a brake lever for the rear brake and a foot pedal style and let the customer choose.
The test motor is on its way I got a tracking number today and finale pictures. One great thing about a motorcycle hub motor is you don't have to worry about stealth like a bicycle. I could chrome plate the motor and show it off brag you name it. On motorcycle its the opposite of bicycles no watt limits to hide or work around.
The Hollow axle version is happening but right now my focus is testing this motor on my Motorcycle for performance as the hollow axle version is planed to have the same stator magnetic parts and rotor winding.
Mark
thomas
10 W
looks great but shouldnt the spokes be crossed for more strength?
evmotorcycle.org
10 mW
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2008
- Messages
- 32
One of these would be ideal for a Yamaha DT80 or Suzuki TS80 chassis. I have swapped rear wheels on my old DT80LC with a few other bikes, when I was a poor student back in the day! Once the rear brake drum will connect to the linkage then you are in business!
markcycle, if you have details of when you will be selling these and where to buy one from I would be well interested. Might look at this option for a build after the Varadero and Mito.
markcycle, if you have details of when you will be selling these and where to buy one from I would be well interested. Might look at this option for a build after the Varadero and Mito.
markcycle
10 kW
thomas said:
I would have preferred crossed spokes but alas I didn't specify the spoke pattern for the prototype so I get what I get. It'll be OK for testing
Mark
drewjet
10 kW
Any idea on the KV rating?
Trying to guess voltage required for speed.
Trying to guess voltage required for speed.
markcycle
10 kW
drewjet said:
Should be the same KV as a 5302
I'm concerned about the increased wire length caused by a wider stator. I need to explore using the same number of turns with more wires in parallel.
Right now I'm finishing up the Mods needed to my motorcycle so I can begin testing
Mark
drewjet
10 kW
From my memory, and I am certainly no expert on this...If you double the width of the stator the KV is 1/2
markcycle
10 kW
drewjet said:
You may be right if the increase in winding resistance is a factor in KV. The winding resistance is greater in this motor than a 5302 due to the wider stator.
The motor has the same number of magnet poles as a 5302 and turns.
Mark
shinyballs
1 kW
very good concept and will definitely be a "must buy" for the doityourselfers when it comes into fruition. Also would be nice if you can use upto 8g spokes to make the wheel build really beefier.
markcycle
10 kW
Jay64
100 kW
I really like that. That would be perfect for a Honda Rebel.
michaelplogue
10 kW
Good to see progress on this. However, I've got two concerns:
1st - I see that your prototype is using a standard bicycle disc on the left side of the wheel (understandable since your test-bike is modeled to use a bicycle hub motor). Motorcycles use a heavier disc on the right side. What will the final config be?
2nd - Because a motorcycle has much more mass than a bicycle, a lot more force is needed to stop it, and more force it put onto the disc. I'm assuming that the discs are being mounted to the motor cover. Is the cover of sufficient strength to handle these forces?
1st - I see that your prototype is using a standard bicycle disc on the left side of the wheel (understandable since your test-bike is modeled to use a bicycle hub motor). Motorcycles use a heavier disc on the right side. What will the final config be?
2nd - Because a motorcycle has much more mass than a bicycle, a lot more force is needed to stop it, and more force it put onto the disc. I'm assuming that the discs are being mounted to the motor cover. Is the cover of sufficient strength to handle these forces?
pgt400
1 kW
Better to have a small back brake then small front.....I hardly use my back brake. But you're right, it does look a little wimpy as does the mount.
markcycle
10 kW
michaelplogue said:
1st Anything I call a motorcycle hub motor will have the disc on the right side and be at least 2mm thick and come in varying diam. for different bikes.
2nd The disc must pick up the spoke hub directly for a motorcycle. Your right about the forces being much greater with a motorcycle, not to mention the risk and liability if its not done right. The design interface for the brake disc isn't finished but your concern is justified and it won't be overlooked.
Right now my focus is getting it test electrically there are real concerns about KV which I can address by connecting the motor Delta instead of Wye, which it is now.
Please feel free to ask me anything and suggest freely
Mark
shinyballs
1 kW
markcycle said:
Hub Spoke holes big enough for 8g spokes.
michaelplogue
10 kW
Groovy. I figured you would have it manufactured using standard motorcycle discs - no offense intended. I think that this will be a great product.
I'm thinking the biggest hurdle with mounting the disc to the cover would be to have enough thickness and be of a strong enough material for the disc mounting bolts to have a good enough bite. Rather than putting the mounting holes in the cover itself, I wonder if it would be possible to make an outer ring that is connected via the existing cover bolts, and then have a smaller ring with the disc mounting holes, the two rings attached together via radial arms. Instead of having a dished cover, make it nearly flat (widening the outer shell) to make this sort of disc adapter easier to attach.
Alternatively - depending on the manufacturing process used for the covers - you could include some solid, thick ribs in the cover where the disc mounting holes could be tapped. Stamped covers I don't think would work. I'm guessing It would have to be either cast or milled.
I'm thinking the biggest hurdle with mounting the disc to the cover would be to have enough thickness and be of a strong enough material for the disc mounting bolts to have a good enough bite. Rather than putting the mounting holes in the cover itself, I wonder if it would be possible to make an outer ring that is connected via the existing cover bolts, and then have a smaller ring with the disc mounting holes, the two rings attached together via radial arms. Instead of having a dished cover, make it nearly flat (widening the outer shell) to make this sort of disc adapter easier to attach.
Alternatively - depending on the manufacturing process used for the covers - you could include some solid, thick ribs in the cover where the disc mounting holes could be tapped. Stamped covers I don't think would work. I'm guessing It would have to be either cast or milled.
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