NEV/LSV to Highway Legal Vehicle? - Miles ZX40S

[jetpackjbd]

Marketplace Listing
So I found a Miles ZX40S for sale at a reasonable price, and occasionally find similar low-production low speed vehicles for sale. Unfortunately, where I live the main road has a speed limit of 45 MPH so I wouldn’t be able to go anywhere outside of a few local stores. Is it possible to convert (in Florida) a LSV to legally go on 45mph (ideally 55) roads? We don’t have a medium speed vehicle section here.

 

[amberwolf]

NEVs are usually a specific class of vehicle that is legally limited to certain places, speeds, etc. You'd have to check your local and state laws to see if there is a way to convert one into a different class of vehicle.

Since they're meant for low speeds and short distances, they may not have the same crash protections, brakes, etc., and so may not be convert-able without adding all of the other requirements for the other vehicle class you want to convert them to.

If it can be legally done, then you could physically upgrade it to go faster. It's probably limited to 25mph, and likely only designed with enough power to do that. To go faster for short bursts you could simply change the controller and battery for one that is high enough voltage to turn the motor at the necessary RPM, but it takes a whole lot more power to go 55 than 25 (see the ebikes.ca motor simulator for how this works and what power it would take to go that speed).

If you need that power / speed long enough the original motor (probably a brushed motor like those in forklifts) would probably overheat without some extra cooling, and possibly even with it, and you'd need to change it out. But that probably costs less than changing the controller and battery by quite a lot, since motors are a lot easier to find used in working/adaptable condition than batteries or controllers.

Since it's possibly a brushed motor (depends on the year), it has a physical RPM limit that if exceeded coudl cause the commutator to "grenade", throwing segments out into or thru the motor casing into the rest of the vehicle, etc. So you might have to change the gearing ratio to the wheels instead of the actual motor RPM; something you'd have to look into once you can see what the motor nameplate shows, etc.

Keep in mind that the motor usually drives a transmission, and may also drive pumps, etc., so running it at more than twice the original RPM may cause a problem with those devices.

Batteries you could get from places like BatteryHookup, or other used-EV-battery-sellers, and build a new pack for it from that.


Here's one thread on this type of vehicle with some pics, etc:

Miles ZX40ST refurb project

Hi all. I'm just getting into my latest project...the re-assembly of a Miles ZX40ST electric truck. Here a link to the album on Photobucket...more pictures will come as they are taken. http://s935.photobucket.com/user/mollysplayhouse/library/Miles%20ZX40ST%20Truck%20Restoration?sort=3&page=1...

endless-sphere.com

 

[Chalo]

Is it possible to convert (in Florida) a LSV to legally go on 45mph (ideally 55) roads?

Whether or not it's legal, it's probably a worse idea than it looks (for comparable reasons that converting a regular pedal bike for 50mph operation is a bad idea). None of the running gear like tires, brakes, suspension is meant to go that fast.

If you want to do that, I'd suggest getting a very lightweight road legal car (Geo Metro, Citroen 2CV, buggy style VW Beetle, kei car) and converting that instead. They're designed to do what you want.

Conversely, you could get a light agricultural vehicle that has rights to the road, like a tractor or farm cart, and convert that. Or you could get a three wheeler like a parking enforcement trike or a tuktuk, which would be registerable as a motorcycle.

 

[jetpackjbd]

NEVs are usually a specific class of vehicle that is legally limited to certain places, speeds, etc. You'd have to check your local and state laws to see if there is a way to convert one into a different class of vehicle.

Since they're meant for low speeds and short distances, they may not have the same crash protections, brakes, etc., and so may not be convert-able without adding all of the other requirements for the other vehicle class you want to convert them to.

If it can be legally done, then you could physically upgrade it to go faster. It's probably limited to 25mph, and likely only designed with enough power to do that. To go faster for short bursts you could simply change the controller and battery for one that is high enough voltage to turn the motor at the necessary RPM, but it takes a whole lot more power to go 55 than 25 (see the ebikes.ca motor simulator for how this works and what power it would take to go that speed).

If you need that power / speed long enough the original motor (probably a brushed motor like those in forklifts) would probably overheat without some extra cooling, and possibly even with it, and you'd need to change it out. But that probably costs less than changing the controller and battery by quite a lot, since motors are a lot easier to find used in working/adaptable condition than batteries or controllers.

Since it's possibly a brushed motor (depends on the year), it has a physical RPM limit that if exceeded coudl cause the commutator to "grenade", throwing segments out into or thru the motor casing into the rest of the vehicle, etc. So you might have to change the gearing ratio to the wheels instead of the actual motor RPM; something you'd have to look into once you can see what the motor nameplate shows, etc.

Keep in mind that the motor usually drives a transmission, and may also drive pumps, etc., so running it at more than twice the original RPM may cause a problem with those devices.

Batteries you could get from places like BatteryHookup, or other used-EV-battery-sellers, and build a new pack for it from that.


Here's one thread on this type of vehicle with some pics, etc:

Miles ZX40ST refurb project

Hi all. I'm just getting into my latest project...the re-assembly of a Miles ZX40ST electric truck. Here a link to the album on Photobucket...more pictures will come as they are taken. http://s935.photobucket.com/user/mollysplayhouse/library/Miles%20ZX40ST%20Truck%20Restoration?sort=3&page=1...

endless-sphere.com

Right, I forgot it’s brushed. Normally I like brushed motors, but for something that I can’t easily swap gears on it might be very difficult to get it to go fast enough. Apparently it’s speed limited to 25 and presumably could go faster. Not sure how much I should expect though, maybe 40 going downhill if I’m lucky? Guessing based on almost nothing.
As for a LSV with a brushless motor, I should be able to use a different controller to get higher speeds, right?
And do you have any experience in the process of registering something like this? I imagine if I wanted to convert it to “highway capable” legally the process would be similar to building a car from scratch and registering it.

 

[PaPaSteve]

My 2 cents . . .
We've owned several NEV's
A couple GEM's and an IT Car
They ran DC sepex motors (separately excited magnetic fields for armature and field)
The Gem's controller could be reprogrammed to make the car run 50mph which was too fast for the brakes and suspension.
Limiting the top speed to 40 worked OK.

The IT Car would only hit 40 after reprogramming, had better suspension, the brakes were better then a GEM but still not great.

New batteries will cost approx $1500 for sealed lead.
Range will be 30 ~ 40 miles.
Flooded batteries are too much maintenance.
We used sealed standby style from large computer banks.
Charger needed to be reprogrammed to match the battery chemistry. $100

Hand held controller programmer cost $350 and some tinkering required.
Improved brush cooling is mandatory.

Last I looked, clean used older Leaf's can be found for $4,000 ~ $5000 in California / Oregon
It will have slightly more range but is a much better car.

 

[amberwolf]

Right, I forgot it’s brushed. Normally I like brushed motors, but for something that I can’t easily swap gears on it might be very difficult to get it to go fast enough. Apparently it’s speed limited to 25 and presumably could go faster. Not sure how much I should expect though, maybe 40 going downhill if I’m lucky?

To find out what it does without experimentation on the actual vehicle (time, money, etc) you need to know:
What is the power available? (what is the battery/controller voltage, and it's current limit)
What is the RPM/volt (k/V) of the motor (what is it's native RPM at a specific voltage)
What are the road/terrain/wind conditions it must perform under?
You can then use calculators or simulators like those at ebikes.ca to figure out what it can do with the existing system, assuming you can defeat the speed limiter.

As for a LSV with a brushless motor, I should be able to use a different controller to get higher speeds, right?

Only if you already have enough power available from the battery, and you have enough RPM available at the available voltage from the motor, and the motor can handle the required power to go the speed you want. Same is true regardless of motor type.

If not, you have to change the battery for one that is higher voltage or higher current or both, and/or change the gearing from motor to wheel and/or change the motor itself, etc.

And do you have any experience in the process of registering something like this? I imagine if I wanted to convert it to “highway capable” legally the process would be similar to building a car from scratch and registering it.

Possibly. You'd have to check your local and state laws; they vary a lot around the world even within a specific country. Your DMV / MVD should have whatever info is needed for this process, including forms. If there is no process then it's probably not legal to do, but they'd be the ones to ask.

There are a few threads about the process in various places over the years, but the info is not useful except for the same vehicle in the same place (and even that can change over time).