New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24)

[icekreme1002]

Nice Arlo
I found plenty of other posts with the fan idea and think ill definitely give it a go.
Do you happen to have the hole dimensions still arlo? Cant be bothered opening up for that right now lol. I assume you used 40mm fans yeah?

Also thought id ask here being hs is a high speed motor, has anyone tried a 24' rear with 26' front or similar combo with this motor?
I was considering it for the extra torque strength etc, and looks better in the simulator for this motor at my voltage, but reading up on pros and cons im worried about the negative effects especially on cornering.
Anyone tried a small rear and big front combo? Was it worth the gains or did you change back?
To broke to buy a rim and spokes then decide not to use it.

 

[wojtek]

Great idea Arlo!

how did you glue them to ensure they wont come off please?

 

[Bazaki]

How much current do you think you can safely draw from the 5v hall wire?

Well it seems that this is not a good solution, the controller can feed the 5v for the throttle and hall sensors but no cpu fans. So I need another solution.

I run 18s lipo. 74.5v of the charger. can someone tell me what resistor I need to get about 12v ? It is for a cpu fan that has about 4 watt at 12v.

 

[nieles]

lets do the math

we want 12v at 333mA (u=p/i -> 4/12=0.333)

we have 74.5v, so we need to drop 62.5v (74.5-12=62.5)

r=u/i -> 62.5/0.333= 187.7 Ohm

what wattage should the resistor be?

P=i^2 r -> 0.333^2 * 187.7= 20.8W (so altleast you want a 25 or 30w resistor)

so you will be using 24w and only using 4w (16.6% efficiency)


what would be a better plan is to use 5 or 6 fans in series. with 5 fans each fan will see a max voltage of 14.9v. it will work but the lifespan will be shorter (but they will not last very long anyway with all the vibration in the motor)

Niels

 

[wojtek]

but i guess having few fans INSIDE the hub motor is more efficient than a fan blowing from outside to the holes in the motor?

 

[Bazaki]

Thanks for the calculation, sorry for the off topic. it is one fan for inside my 18 fet controller, it really works great but at 5v it is running slow.

 

[nieles]

if it is for in the controller i would get a dc-dc converter. they are a lot more efficient (~90% vs 16.6%)

 

[Arlo1]

lets do the math

we want 12v at 333mA (u=p/i -> 4/12=0.333)

we have 74.5v, so we need to drop 62.5v (74.5-12=62.5)

r=u/i -> 62.5/0.333= 187.7 Ohm

what wattage should the resistor be?

P=i^2 r -> 0.333^2 * 187.7= 20.8W (so altleast you want a 25 or 30w resistor)

so you will be using 24w and only using 4w (16.6% efficiency)


what would be a better plan is to use 5 or 6 fans in series. with 5 fans each fan will see a max voltage of 14.9v. it will work but the lifespan will be shorter (but they will not last very long anyway with all the vibration in the motor)

Niels

You dont need any resistors the way I wired them. I will get some tests today to show the amp draw but it is uber low so whith a low amp draw and increased eficiency from the cooler winding temp it will give higher over all eficiency! The fans I use are rated for 12v use I use them at 28v. The fans I put in my X5 were rated for 12v use and they are run at 25v and have been in that bike for 2 years!!!!!!

 

[nieles]

yes, but you run multiple fans in series right?
i agree if you want the fans in your motor just run enough of them in series for what voltage you are using

bazaki only wants one fan (for his controller), so that is why i did the resistor calculation for him.


i am inpressed that the fans still work being overvolted to 25v after 2 years!

Niels

 

[Arlo1]

yes, but you run multiple fans in series right?
i agree if you want the fans in your motor just run enough of them in series for what voltage you are using

bazaki only wants one fan (for his controller), so that is why i did the resistor calculation for him.


i am inpressed that the fans still work being overvolted to 25v after 2 years!

Niels

Ok sorry. I would think he shoud look at other options rater then wasting energy with a resistor. Like mabe a step down dc/dc converter or a power supply or maybe 2 or three in series? They also make different voltage fans the guys I ordered mine from asked what voltage i wanted.

 

[icekreme1002]

So ive been thinking over the cooling options and I think im going to experiment with water cooling 1st. I have some very stiff 6mm OD tube i will try squeeze in and go from there. I get it in a 5mm hole for an aquarium co2 setup so thats about the size of 1 10awg... i think. If that doesnt work Ill try some 30mm fans to help boost air flow. im at 66v/75v hot, so 6 12v fans will be perfect.

Also what do you guys think of these bearings? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/17069296...NX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_1914wt_814

That's about the price of stainless over here so considering giving them a go. He doesn't seem to know much about them but has good feedback.

 

[Tincan]

You are going to machine out the axle first though, aren't you?!

I had enough trouble getting the upgraded phase wires plus the halls in. water lines? :O

Another thing you need to consider as well is having to carry enough water around with you. run out of water and pop goes your motor.

I'm only weary of this after spending many many years with water injection in highly modified street cars, not as big of an issue on them as you just put a low level alarm in and ease your foot off. On a bike, you wont want to be carrying a load of water all the time etc.

Just food for thought.

And anyone who says that the HT35 doesn't need any form of cooling.... BITE ME!
Mine lasted an hour!
But i will admit, it was a fkn fun filled hour!

 

[icekreme1002]

yeah I already dremeled it out a little when I did my wiring.
I really dont expect it to work, the biggest problem will be getting a corner piece in or finding a way to get around the 90 degree turn where the wires exit the axle.

All im going to do is see if it will fit, if so, ill hook up a bottle of water and see how long it takes to drain gravity fed, if at all. If 2 600ml bottles can get me through a 20 min offroad run with significant improvement then awesome, but like I said no idea if any of it will be worth the effort or work.
Just looking at non-powered options 1st. If it required pump I will probably go the fan route.

Bummer about your motor! What were you running it at?

 

[sn0wchyld]

And anyone who says that the HT35 doesn't need any form of cooling.... BITE ME!
Mine lasted an hour!
But i will admit, it was a fkn fun filled hour!

lol mate, how many amps were you running?

And if you still got the motor open, can you do me a major favour and measure the diameter of those holes? Or perhaps someone already knows? Just trying to figure out what size fan is gonna work... cheers.

 

[voicecoils]

And anyone who says that the HT35 doesn't need any form of cooling.... BITE ME!
Mine lasted an hour!
But i will admit, it was a fkn fun filled hour!

What sort of power, current and wheel size were you running?

I'm about to get my HT fired up on 104v in a 26" wheel & trying to decide on a current limit :lol:

 

[Andje]

65 amps if you want it to live without cooling holes imho. with them maybe 8500 which should see saturation. But don't hammer the accel.

 

[Nanoha]

And anyone who says that the HT35 doesn't need any form of cooling.... BITE ME!
Mine lasted an hour!
But i will admit, it was a fkn fun filled hour!

What sort of power, current and wheel size were you running?

I'm about to get my HT fired up on 104v in a 26" wheel & trying to decide on a current limit :lol:

180A

 

[wojtek]

that is the smoking spirit!

 

[Skippic]

This surely has been discussed previously, but wouldn't putting some non conductive liquid inside the hub solve the heat transfer problem?

You meen sealing it in? It will leak out lol it can't be sealed in! And if the hub was full it will create great drag. But go ahead and try it maybe i'm wrong and you will help make some progress!!! Im currently cross drilling a X5 axle to run watter though it from a windshield washer pump to spray on the windings. Who cares if it is conductive the windings are insulated and from one winding to the next they voltage difference is not so great! eg a 6 turn motor with 100 volts has 100/6= 16.6666v difference from one turn to the next so with the insulation and the low voltage difference it will never hurt a thing. When i do dyno runs I spray water in the motors all the time to keep them cool!!!

I thought about it and giving the inside of the motor a protective paint surface should protect all but the bearings. Therefore using water is out of the question. My idea was to use maybe 1 cup of some oil should be enough to transfer the heat from the stator to the cover. At speed it would just be sprayed all over the place. I admit there might be some minor oil leaking through the bearings when the motor heats up. I'm just not comfortable with drilling the cover and letting dirt inside.

On the other hand, if you protect all the inner surfaces with paint the only problem after drilling holes would be the bearings and they are already exposed from the outside.

I think we all agree the inner diameter of the bearings should be bigger :wink:

 

[Arlo1]

I have had Huge holes in the covers of my X5 for 2 years and there is no dirt in side it!

 

[wojtek]

+1
EXPERIENCE AND TESTING REIGN!

 

[Skippic]

I have had Huge holes in the covers of my X5 for 2 years and there is no dirt in side it!

The oil inside is somewhat messy. It might work with a motor designed for it.

From what you say it seems like drilling it and giving it a protective pain job would be the best way to go. And maybe also buying spare bearings ^^

 

[icekreme1002]

180!!?! Like a king!!

I to was skeptical about dirt and rocks getting in the holes skippic, but after doing some heavy off roading/power sliding and thread reading i'm not worried at all. It is possible, but extremely unlikely.

snowchyld, i havent opened my hs35 again yet, but i opened and measured the holes on my 9c 8x8 which im sure would be very close to if not the same size. 9c holes were 23.5mm.

If someone does measure a hs in the meantime please let us know! Otherwise i will report back when i do mine.

Edit: Ps i bought those ceramic bearings offered the guy a best offer of $15 each for 2 and he accepted so $45 delivered for ceramics isnt to bad Hopefully they turn out alright.

 

[Ypedal]

If you guys are making that much heat and still not satisfied with the output, you need a bigger motor, not more cooling.. wowzers..

 

[wojtek]

If you guys are making that much heat and still not satisfied with the output, you need a bigger motor, not more cooling.. wowzers..

yes exactly like crystalyte 54xx !!! 8)