New Mexico MVD - Other "Vehicles"

[GiantEV]

I am building a new ebike using the same MXUS 3T motor that I have used to reach 45mph+ on my current ebike. I want to use this new bike to get to work via a route which includes a stretch of road that has no bike lane and a speed limit of 35mph (although the traffic on that stretch typically goes much faster than that). I know that the federal speed limit in the US is 20mph, and that some states allow for higher speeds for electric bikes, so I decided to research my state's regulations on this matter to see how fast I can go legally. I found the following page:

http://mvd.newmexico.gov/vehicle-pr...01blogPostId=ec45f29f43944fb8a848cd27a012a8b1

As you can see, the page lists:
- A. Mopeds
- B. Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Devices (Segways)
- C. Neighborhood Electric Cars
- D. Bicycles
- E. Motorized Bicycles
- F. Airplanes

I find the descriptions of each of these sections very interesting.

A. Mopeds are defined as "a two-wheeled or three-wheeled vehicle with an automatic transmission and a motor having a piston displacement of less than 50 cubic centimeters, that is capable of propelling the vehicle at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles an hour on level ground, at sea level." At first, I thought my ebike might fall into this category, but it doesn't have an automatic transmission. Now, it does have a motor, but of course we don't typically express the power of our electric motors in terms of cubic centimeters (CCs). Also, based on the way the speed boundary is written, can I assume that I can legally travel faster going downhill and at higher altitude, since the 30 mph value is based on level ground and sea level performance, and it takes less work to push my ebike downhill through the thinner air at my altitude? Of course, I wouldn't want to be the one facing the judge asking these questions, but I'd be curious to see how a judge would respond to this logic.

B. Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Devices is an interestingly named category, which I read as an electric vehicle that helps me to get around (like my ebike). They refer to the vehicle as "Segway" throughout most of the text, so it may be difficult to classify my ebike as an Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Device. However, if that were the case, there is not a maximum speed limit listed. We can argue that Segways have a top speed of 12.5mph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segway_Inc.), but some people have modified their Segway to go much faster:
36" wheels for a potential top speed of 24mph: http://gizmodo.com/5649155/the-top-5-greatest-segway-mods
25mph on this one: http://technabob.com/blog/2010/11/15/souped-up-segway-fast-segway/

C. Neighborhood Electric Cars is an interesting category, but not applicable to our ebikes.

D. Bicycles - fairly straight forward, proclaiming that bicycles have the same rights as cars, even though I've been yelled at more than once by drivers when on my non-electric bikes to "get my bike off the road", showing the ignorance of many drivers. There is no mention of maximum speed limit here, so how fast can a bicycle travel on roads? No faster than the posted speed limit I presume?

E. Motorized Bicycles - Now this is an interesting category! The text is as follows: "By current MVD practice, motorized bicycles are considered to be bicycles and are not subject to the titling and registration requirements of the Motor Vehicle Code." No titling and registration requirements is nice. Again, there is no mention of maximum speed limit, so we might think that an ebike automatically falls under the Federal limit of 20mph and 750 Watts maximum. But the text here says that motorized bicycles are considered to be bicycles, so that should include any speed limits as well, right? Again, I would not want to be the one to go in front of the judge to argue this, but I am curious if law enforcement would take enough notice of my ebike to make that happen.

F. Airplanes - again, not applicable.

The bike I am building will be very strong and should be able to easily handle 35mph+. I feel much safer going the same speed as the other vehicles in the flow of traffic. There have been many bicycle fatalities in this city (Albuquerque) recently, including one tonight, and I don't want to be another statistic because I was going 20mph and the other vehicles were going 40mph+ on a road without a bike lane or alternate route to my destination. I know from personal experience in my caged vehicle I have come up on a 50cc scooter that I almost didn't notice which was traveling well below the speed limit and that was an eye-opening experience. I have built several ebikes and have ridden around town hundreds of miles without a problem from law enforcement, but I am a law abiding citizen and want to be on the right side of the law. So I'm posting this thread to open up discussion, because I am curious to hear what other people, both in and out of New Mexico, have experienced with their ebike in states with similar laws/statutes/regulations.

 

[dogman dan]

Since it makes no mention of federal consumer product laws in the motorized bicycle category, I see no reason to assume they apply.

I had not seen that one, revised in 2008. As you may have found, for years the link to the actual MVD statutes was broken, and it took you to the state constitution. Thanks for the link to the current statutes.

Look like they merely wrote in a catch all phrase for motorized bicycle, that would allow any judge in the state to simply do what he wants to any hooligan in his court. So if you build for more than 30 mph, any cop can drag you in at his discretion, and any judge do what he wants at his discretion. They just tell you" that ain't no bike, and it's too fast for moped" and you are screwed. Bottom line, they will focus more on how you ride, than what you rode. " He was going 40 mph" the cop says, and you are now screwed. Up to 30 mph, you can claim you are a moped if you still have a license. It fits the definition poorly, but it does not have a clutch and shifter.

It's vague, and honestly I kind of like it this way. Cops are free to ignore me, provided I don't look dangerous. I have never gotten the look from a cop when going less than 30 mph. However, 30 mph on a multi use trail is not cool, if anybody else is on the trail at the time. I just try to stay under the moped limit, and stay ignored. I agree, too slow in traffic IS more dangerous. But much above 30 mph not descending a mountain, I would expect a cop to stop you and investigate. Something that looks too much like an off road motorcycle, I'd expect a cop to see it as riding your off road vehicle on the street.

But since it's vague, I can build a moderately fast bike, with shitloads of power, and ride the speed I want up to 30 mph even up a mountain. No pesky 1 hp limit. I do like that. But I do not think anything in that statute will be interpreted by any judge, as a 40 mph ebike is still a "bicycle" They are going to call it a home made motorcycle or off road vehicle I bet.

I'm not saying build to limit your speed, but I am saying, ride sub 30 mph as much as possible, and look no faster than a moped as much as you can. Save that burst of speed you have for when you must use it, and find alternate routes as much as the streets will allow. I don't know where you ride, but stuff like Candelaria instead of Menaul will help a lot. Find the streets with lower speed limits if possible. But if you need to ride 528 to get anywhere at all, not much in the way of another route! Between the river, the interstates, and the arroyo golf course, you can get funneled into high traffic high speed streets with no other choice. But given a choice, Edith before 4th street for sure.

 

[dogman dan]

After about 6 re reads, I agree, the law does have NO speed limit for "bicycle" other than the posted speed limit.

However, I still bet you a cop that sees you doing 40 mph on the flat, ( it will take 50 to keep up with traffic on a 35 mph Albuquerque street) will tell you "that ain't no bicycle, it's an off road vehicle". Or call it an un registered motorcycle. Then the judge will do what ever the hell he wants, since the law does give him total discretion to call it what ever he damn well feels like.

It's definite, that your bike is not a personal mobility vehicle. Interesting though, that no limits are stated to modifications to a Segway.

In Phoenix, Amberwolf has a 20 mph speed limit for his electric bikes. But he gets drivers all pissed off and honking at him if he really rides that slow on many streets. In practice, he rides 20-30 mph, tries to stick to 25 mph streets, and gets by. Any slower is a nightmare on a big street.

Here in Las Cruces, plenty of safer bike routes to nearly everywhere. Traveling 18 mph is my norm, just for longer range. But if I get tired of pedaling, then I ride 25 mph or so to get home. I don't really need to ride faster than 25-30 mph to stay alive here.

 

[amberwolf]

In Phoenix, Amberwolf has a 20 mph speed limit for his electric bikes. But he gets drivers all pissed off and honking at him if he really rides that slow on many streets. In practice, he rides 20-30 mph, tries to stick to 25 mph streets, and gets by.

Actually, no, I ride 18-20MPH, because if someone in charge ever decides to pick on me for riding faster, I'd lose the bike itself (which I couldn't replace, and couldn't afford to get out of impound even if I won the court case and didn't have to pay the 4-digit fines (which i also couldn't afford) that they have put on plain bicycle-looking gasser bikes caught going faster).

On CB2 I have once seen the speedo up to 30MPH because I panicked when I saw a huge fire in the direction of my house on my way home from work...but quickly saw that it was not my house or even anything but someone's yard waste at the base of a utility pole, and stopped. On my own side street I've tested it up to an instant's peak of I think 24MPH during an acceleration test, with a clear street and no one out and about.

I'd *like* to be able to ride faster, and CB2 can definitely do it if it has to (I call it GTFOOTW power), but it is very rare for me to have to use it like that. Mostly people give CB2 respect and the lane, because it is large and motorcyclish and I don't think they know quite what to make of it. And I give them the room to pass if it's safe to, or take the lane if there's nowhere else to be / not enough room for cars *and* me *and* safe passing distance for them to me.

Mostly though I do avoid main streets when they are busy, but there are times and places that's not possible. :/


Drivers pissed off and honking? Not much, but very very occasionally, on CrazyBike2.

On the new SB Cruiser, pissed off, yes, honking, a couple times, because it can't accelerate very quickly (unlike CB2) and it doesn't look quite as motorcyclish as CB2 so they don't treat it with respect, whcih is teh same way they act toward regular bicycles and my more-bicycle-like ebikes. But I also haven't had it on major streets when there's any traffic to speak of, *because* it can't get out of it's own way yet.



Now....we don't have a *power* limit in AZ, so I pack as much as I can on these with what' I've got to work with, so I can accelerate at least as fast as many cars (faster than quite a few, from a stop light), so that if I'm out front of them waiting for that red light to turn green, then when it does I don't have them bottled up behind me and impatient, cuz I'm already across the intersection and at or near 20MPH by the time they are halfway thru it. Of course, at that point they have to deal with me being there, but a lot fo the time since I'm in the righthand lane most of that traffic behind me was turning right and is no longer behind me anyway. Except for the ones that sometimes sit there blocking traffic wondering what the heck that red thing was.