New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[MPM]

[... the bright side is you now get to buy one of the more powerful controllers that seem to be available. Looks like future-bike.it are selling a 48v version with 500w. I dunno if that's just a different controller, though it wouldn't surprise me.

Now there is some upside

I will ask if that is indeed the case, and if future-bike would sell such a controller separately. Did anyone actually get one yet? On this thread I saw the experiments putting higher voltages on the normal controller and noticed speculation on a 48V controller becoming available, but haven't seen any confirmed purchases.

Today I'll pull the unit out again, see if it has some some obviously fried parts.

Meanwhile, pro-tip: color-code the wires with some tape!

 

[mscoot]

The error code E2.8 (or was it E02.8?) has popped up in my display a couple of times lately.
Motor works like normal and I can't really tell if there is anything wrong.

I've got 1500 kms on the odo now, and the motor works like a charm. Currently running at -12 C without any other ill effects than a slightly lower range.
The error code showed up when it was around 0 C and quite dry air, but I'm wondering if it's trying to tell me that there's moisture somewhere in the system.

Does anyone know what this error code means?

Edit: Looks like I've got another error code as well. E03.2 flashed up a couple of times on my way to work this morning. Still, the motor works like it should. There's slightly less power now as the battery is so cold. I park it indoors, so once the battery is heated up again, the power is back.

2nd edit: Got a message from my local shop today saying E03.2 is some sort of low voltage error. I was cycling in -12 degrees in turbo-mode with a half empty battery, so that's probably to be expected. Local shop also said that the manufacture had told him that I should not worry about E02.8. I still don't know what it means, but I'm not worrying.

 

[Aurinko80]

Is this motor reliable enough for a road bike? Need assist on 20-25 mph range.

But the biggest question is : does it fit a road bike ? I wanted to install one on my Cervelo R3 : no luck... bottom bracket shell is too fat !

I think I'll give it a shot. Would seem like I have a bit thinner bottom bracket than that Cervelo R3. It's not like a 1k€ Bosch drive anyway so if it doesn't fit the Cannondale Caad8 it's not such a big loss.. and I have a soft spot for "low quality" chinese mid drives. Drove around 10000km this year in my bike with a Bewo engine.

I'll post the results hopefully sometime next year.

It's winter here in Finland, so can't much about the motor quality etc. , but the ride I got was nothing short of amazing. Acceleration feels rapid and smooth at the same time. Haven't tried really high speeds or longer rides because of the ice, but considering some power calculations with the wind and rolling resistances, average speed on a ride should be ~18 km/h higher than normally. Torque sensor feels softer than the 2016 models of Bosch/Yamaha I've tried.

I might post some data/pictures after 3-4 months when I have some actual experience.

 

[mdshw5]

I'm on the line between the TSDZ2 or a BBS02. The bike is a Dahon jetstream with a shimano IGH I've laced into the rear wheel. Since I'll probably break the shimano hub with too much power, and shifting with a torque sensor seems easier than adding a gear sensor, I'm leaning toward the TSDZ2. However my bike has a strange bottom bracket layout (excuse the dirt):

The bike is folded and top of the image is the front of the bike. Rear wheel is bottom of the image. Seat post is fully collapsed and does not protrude when unfolded.

I know that a mid drive is going to block the bottom of my seat tube, and that's okay with me (I've got a really tall seat post in there right now - I could use a shorter one if I want) but the rear suspension linkage is directly behind the bottom bracket, so the chain stays and kickstand mount move independently from the seat tube and BB. Does anyone have some insight about fitment problems I might face on this frame?


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[Rydon]

I know that a mid drive is going to block the bottom of my seat tube, and that's okay with me (I've got a really tall seat post in there right now - I could use a shorter one if I want) but the rear suspension linkage is directly behind the bottom bracket, so the chain stays and kickstand mount move independently from the seat tube and BB. Does anyone have some insight about fitment problems I might face on this frame?

The pivot for your rear suspension will interfere with using the stock anti-rotation bracket on the TSDZ2. This prevents it from rotating forward under torque. With the placement of your seat tube up front - the motor will rotate into this and may be just fine in that position. Just put some loctite on the spindle nut and make it extra tight against the bottom bracket. You may want to put something at the bottom of the seat tube for the motor to rotate against. This is common on BBSxx installs as they have no anti rotation feature at all except the dimples on the bb mount bracket that dig into the bb to help prevent rotation. The TSDZ2 does not have those dimples on the bb mount bracket so will be more inclined to rotate even with significant tightening of the spindle nut against the bb. If you worry about it, you could tie some kind of tie or strap around a chain-stay and anchor that to the bolt where the anti-rotation bracket mounts to solve the problem.

If you choose to go with the BBS02 you may want to grind off the part of the seat tube that protrudes down in front of the bottom bracket to allow the BBS02 to rotate forward and up to provide better ground clearance. Looks better too.

 

[Speady]

Just discoverd this new offer on ali:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Torque-Sensor-Max-65N-m-48V-350W-Mid-Motor-Electric-bicycles-conversion-kits-for-electrc-bike/32768370583.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10065_10068_10000009_10084_10000025_10083_10000029_10080_10082_10081_10000028_10110_10111_10112_10060_10113_10062_10114_10056_10055_10037_10054_10059_10099_10078_10079_10000022_10000012_10103_10073_10102_10000015_10096_10000018_10000019_10109_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051,searchweb201603_3,afswitch_5,single_sort_3_default&btsid=669be55e-d386-4f06-8e1a-

They say it spins 110 to 140 Rpm at 48V. That would be nice, because the 36V version runs a little too slow for some.
Let's see if they can provide a bare 48V controller also.

If someone tried this version yet, please report.

 

[Instigater]

Hello!
I would like to share experience with this motor. I bought it from manufacturer. 36V 350W version for 73mm wide BB with coaster brake option. It is on my selfmade fatty beachcruiser. My bike is on 26" 3.5" wheels low pressure wheels with 42T front and 22T sprockets rear now with Nexus 3 speed hub gears + coaster brake. I had one showstopper when motor arrived. My bottom bracket is American/BMX, so I could not install with centric adapters as motor hit the frame. Had to fabricate specific adapters for this and it turned out perfect match. BTW, I fabricated 2 sets so one is on sale!

I knew I would like to run it with more volts. First test at 36V really showed the lack of assistance in hi cadence. Then a friend lend me his LiPo bricks and I could test it with 44V (12S) too. It really gained more torque and assistance in higher cadence yet I could still feel it letting down a bit in high speed. Top speed at this setup is about 35 km/h as I cannot spin faster. Anyway one day I tested energy consumption of my bike as my goal is to fabricate battery pack that can deliver me 25km range (which is the range I occasionally drive on bike to work in other city). It wasn't clear test on straight flat road. It was mix of tarmac, beach sand, forest trails so this is almost worst case scenario. I managed to average 11.56 Wh per km with average speed 19 km/h. I can climb without taking off from the seat about 20 degree inclination in 1st gear. The best thing is that this kit deliver clean look.

Acceleration 3rd gear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EFslNBeTsg

 

[Instigater]

Installed today 52t sprocket in front and went testing in tough conditions. I can still manage climbing toboggan track in first gear (picture of toboggan track steepness), and now I can cruise with 35 km/h. Maximum achieved speed on flat road was 44.x km/h. Today was about 5 cm wet snow on the beach and I could not reach more than 29 km/h. I averaged 19 km/h during the tests and achieved 14.35 Wh/km energy consumption. It really feels that fat-bike is not meant for speed as achieving 30 km/h is reasonably quick giving the dwarf specs of motor. Motor got slightly warm after 3 km of cruising at 35 km/h. I estimated +20C above ambient.

 

[daenny]

Hi,
Thanks for your overview. Where did you get your motor from? I have tried with 12S LiPo, and the motor controller cuts off above 45V... So it's hardly usable. I am running now on 10S. Does you controller work with a full 12s LiPo (50 V)?
Cheers

 

[mdshw5]

The pivot for your rear suspension will interfere with using the stock anti-rotation bracket on the TSDZ2. This prevents it from rotating forward under torque. With the placement of your seat tube up front - the motor will rotate into this and may be just fine in that position. Just put some loctite on the spindle nut and make it extra tight against the bottom bracket. You may want to put something at the bottom of the seat tube for the motor to rotate against.

Thanks for sharing. This is pretty much what I'm prepared for, and I think bracing front or securing the back of the motor with a tie or clamp is the best bet.

If you choose to go with the BBS02 you may want to grind off the part of the seat tube that protrudes down in front of the bottom bracket to allow the BBS02 to rotate forward and up to provide better ground clearance. Looks better too.

I thought about grinding this part of the seat tube away, but I'm a bit hesitant. I guess it can't be a structural component but it's an alloy frame and as much as possible I want to keep it in one piece


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[Aurinko80]

I decided to buy this motor over the well proven bbs02 and Q100H motors.

+ Feels as smooth as a Bosch motor
+ It is light and has more than enough power for most cyclist (I'm 200lbs and got to 53 km/h on a bad road)
+ Less cables than other motors (just one to speed sensor and one to display)

- Quality uncertain
- If and when the motor breaks there will almost certainly be problems in getting cheap spare parts

 

[manneokoko]

Finally installed the motor. Its very very nice. But i notice that the speed meter is not correct when compared to speed meter with gps app on the phone. The tsdz2 shows about 4-5 kmh faster speed then the gps app.

Also, i have went through the menu and set the correct wheel size, (28 ) so thats not the problem. Anybody else had this problem and a solution?

 

[r0mko]

Hi all,
I have registered here specially for writing this report. Have read this topic last summer while deciding which motor to purchase for upgrading my wife's and my bike. Benefits of TSDZ2 overweighed the Bafang's and I bought two upgrade kits. It has neater look in terms of machining and design, it has less wires and so on. What can I tell after six months everyday commuting and >2000 km overall distance? First of all, it definitely satisfied my expectations. Installation was easy and even a dumb would have managed it. It delivers massive torque and accelerates me (85 kg) riding a good old heavy all-mountain/enduro full-suspension bike (say, another 23 kg with motor and battery) to 30 km/h nearly instantly. Riding home to the 110 meter high hill became a joy instead of violent punishment. Noise is present and only seems to be bit annoying while climbing really steep grades at 10-12 km/h. My wife even likes it At speeds exceeding 20 km/h I can't hear it anymore through wind and tires hum. I couldn't find any significant flaw, everything worked like a charm until recent.
This happened right after Christmas, I rode to work and stopped at the crossing to pass the traffic. When I started moving again I gave it a little more thrust because another approaching car gave me a road. I just pushed the pedal gently but strongly, not even speaking of standing up on it with full weight. But happened the catastrophe. The crank just fell off with a part of an axle. Further investigations shown that there was a welding defect. Yes, there was a welded seam in the axle! I am not a mechanic guru but having in mind torsional loads of this unit, I can figure out that the axle of a bottom bracket is not a good place for welded seams. Probably the water soaked the seam and then freezed that caused its weakening. I attached some pics to display the scale of disaster.
I sent this motor back to the supplier (he confirmed that this was a warranty case) and now expecting the Bafang BBS02. So that was my sad story.

 

[Chalo]

That spindle had been cracking for some time before it let go. It's a classic case of progressive fatigue failure.

 

[r0mko]

Anyway this would never happen if the axle were done as a single part without any welding.

 

[mscoot]

Anyway this would never happen if the axle were done as a single part without any welding.

I'm not so sure about that one. It doesn't need to be because it has been welded together. A small hairline crack starts to develop and off it goes at some point.
I've had a two-stroke crankshaft snap the same way due to high rpms and a very slightly off balance flywheel. Bad quality metal, not properly tempered (or in my case, just running the motor out of tolerance).

 

[Rydon]

Just discoverd this new offer on ali:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Torque-Sensor-Max-65N-m-48V-350W-Mid-Motor-Electric-bicycles-conversion-kits-for-electrc-bike/32768370583.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10065_10068_10000009_10084_10000025_10083_10000029_10080_10082_10081_10000028_10110_10111_10112_10060_10113_10062_10114_10056_10055_10037_10054_10059_10099_10078_10079_10000022_10000012_10103_10073_10102_10000015_10096_10000018_10000019_10109_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051,searchweb201603_3,afswitch_5,single_sort_3_default&btsid=669be55e-d386-4f06-8e1a-
They say it spins 110 to 140 Rpm at 48V. That would be nice, because the 36V version runs a little too slow for some.
Let's see if they can provide a bare 48V controller also.
If someone tried this version yet, please report.

I am pretty sure this is either a typo or they got their hands on some TSDZ2 motors with 48v firmware. When future bike in Italy and another ebike company in Korea started selling a 48v 500w Tongsheng motor last year I contacted a guy I know at Tongsheng Bicycle. He confirmed that it is the exact same motor as the TSDZ2 but with different firmware. He said the firmware upgrade can only be done at the factory and that he could provide me with motors with that firmware - just need to order a boatload of them. He said he doesn't recommend it because it pushes the motor past its 350 watt design. The good news is they are working on a new 500 watt motor that was supposed to be out last year but it is late being released. He will let me know when it comes out.

The weird thing about the aliexpress link you provided is that it is 48v but still 350 watts. That makes no sense so I think the 48v is probably a typo.

 

[mlongpine]

I was researching ebike kits and thinking about purchasing this one. I would like the option of throttle only mode for my ride to work, and then use a very light assist (torque sensor only) on the way home to get a workout. It doesn't seem like anyone has mentioned hooking up a throttle successfully, so I wanted to ask if it has been done?

In this video it looks to be a TSDZ2 w/XH18 display hooked to a throttle demonstrated on a bench. I also was wondering do all XH18 display volts and watts as shown?

I can't understand a word of what is being said but maybe someone else here will.

 

[Squirrelpie0]

Why not just get a Bafang BBSXX that has a throttle and set the PAS at a low level on your home route to get a workout? At least then you have a tougher, reasonably reliable mechanical unit.

 

[r0mko]

I was researching ebike kits and thinking about purchasing this one. I would like the option of throttle only mode for my ride to work, and then use a very light assist (torque sensor only) on the way home to get a workout. It doesn't seem like anyone has mentioned hooking up a throttle successfully, so I wanted to ask if it has been done?

In this video it looks to be a TSDZ2 w/XH18 display hooked to a throttle demonstrated on a bench. I also was wondering do all XH18 display volts and watts as shown?

I can't understand a word of what is being said but maybe someone else here will.

Definitely not all XH18 screens display watts and volts. I owned one and and it had no such display modes. Also I wouldn't say that I've been satisfied with it. The most annoying thing was I had to switch it off manually every time before switching power off. Otherwise it resets the trip counter and odometer is not updated (rolling back to previous stored value).

 

[mscoot]

I was researching ebike kits and thinking about purchasing this one. I would like the option of throttle only mode for my ride to work, and then use a very light assist (torque sensor only) on the way home to get a workout. It doesn't seem like anyone has mentioned hooking up a throttle successfully, so I wanted to ask if it has been done?

In this video it looks to be a TSDZ2 w/XH18 display hooked to a throttle demonstrated on a bench. I also was wondering do all XH18 display volts and watts as shown?

I can't understand a word of what is being said but maybe someone else here will.

Definitely not all XH18 screens display watts and volts. I owned one and and it had no such display modes. Also I wouldn't say that I've been satisfied with it. The most annoying thing was I had to switch it off manually every time before switching power off. Otherwise it resets the trip counter and odometer is not updated (rolling back to previous stored value).

Even the VLCD5 has the text POWER and CONS(umption?) pop up at startup. I'm thinking there's probably something hidden in the software that would allow it to display that information. On a long ride that sort of information would be nice to have.

 

[r0mko]

Even the VLCD5 has the text POWER and CONS(umption?) pop up at startup. I'm thinking there's probably something hidden in the software that would allow it to display that information. On a long ride that sort of information would be nice to have.

Yes, it has. Probably it was done as a key to the future. It is always easier to update the software than the hardware. Hopefully some day the new firmware becomes available and VLCD5 and XH18 users benefit from having handy watt- and voltmeter.

 

[Ilpo]

Hi,

I have now tested my new tsdz2 for about 10 km.
I like tsdz2 more than BBS2 which I have had for 3 years.

I have 28" wheels, but had to set the wheel size to 25 on tsdz2 to get same speed what GPS is showing.

What is the 6km/h (off/on) setting?

 

[r0mko]

Hi,
What is the 6km/h (off/on) setting?

Hi, this is a "trolley mode" setting. When this option enabled, you can push and hold the throttle grip down, and your bike will creep slowly, which can help pushing uphill it or upstairs.

 

[r0mko]

Hi,
I like tsdz2 more than BBS2 which I have had for 3 years.

Could you please share your experience? What do you like more in TSDZ2?