Oops. I crossed my phase wires

[zro-1]

Hey guys, I'm hoping you can help me.

I'm building an ebike, and I ended up crossing the blue and green phase wires from the controller to the motor. Typically when this happens, is it more likely that the controller is burnt out or the motor.

I have fixed the wires, and the motor will run for about 20 seconds before cutting out again.

I just wanted to get an idea of what to check first before I start pulling the whole bike apart.

Thanks.

 

[dnmun]

what does crossing mean?

can you describe what happened in sequence and with specific descriptions?

 

[lbz5mc12]

I think he means he plugged the blue to the green connection and the green to the blue connection.

 

[dnmun]

he can tell me what happened if he wants to. or he can just disappear as is usual.

 

[zro-1]

Sorry for the brevity and non-descriptiveness of my first post. I posted that while at work so it was rushed.

So yes, lbz5mc12 is correct, the wires coming out of the GNG motor kit are not very brightly colored and I had trouble discerning the blue and the green phase wires. I am using a LYEN controller with the GNG motor, and the instructions call for connecting the blue to green, green to blue, and yellow to yellow. I mistook the colors when I wired it up (I have trouble with blues and greens in certain lighting) and went green to green, blue to blue, and yellow to yellow. So the blue and green wires were reversed from what LYEN's instructions called for.

Of course, like an idiot in my excitement, I forgot to double-check them in brighter daylight, and I ended up running about 4.5Ah through the controller and motor for about 30 minutes before the motor cut out.

After correcting my mistake, and letting everything cool down, I was able to get the motor powering up (under no load) with the throttle for about 30 seconds before it cut out again. I suspect based on that, that I cooked the controller, but I was hoping I could get some advice on specifics to check before I started pulling everything apart and replacing components.

 

[dnmun]

it seems like it would not run if you had reversed the blue phase wire with the green.

but you can check the controller without opening it by measuring the body diode of the mosfets on each phase. you can use the ohmmeter too.

6 measurements hiside and loside, between the B+ and B- of the controller input to the phase wires.

 

[zro-1]

Ok. I'll give that a try. Thanks dnmun!

 

[dogman dan]

First of all, you might have needed to swap b and g. No guarantee that GNG and Lyens uses matched colors. Or were you told to match them by lyens?

Generally, running a false positive is harsh on both controller and motor. The motor will get hot fast. If the motor smoked, likely you smelled it.

You can test the motor pretty easy.

 

[zro-1]

Hey dogman, thanks for the advice.

I still had the original GNG controller, so I dropped my batteries to 44V and hooked that up. The motor behaved the same as it did with Lyen's controller. So it seems I have smoked the motor. I was hauling a$$ when the motor first cut out, so I didn't smell anything.

I'm not sure about the Lyen controller at this point. I pulled it apart and everything "looks" OK. I need to take some measurements though. I have ordered a replacement motor from GNG. Once I have that I will re-test the controller with the phase wires connected per instructions.

Lyen had provided instructions via a link with my order. On the page, in the GNG section it said to swap the green and blue phase and hall wires. I did not do that.

 

[dogman dan]

I will guess you fried a hall sensor. It may have gotten very hot running the wrong combo, or maybe you just have an evil throttle hand.

Shorted phases usually stink more, smoke comes out, etc. But it could be just the solder melted on the phase wire connection. I had that once.

A motor controller tester is worth every penny of the thirty bucks. The wiki should have stuff about testing halls and such.

Don't forget to triple check the plugs, 8 hours later, OH! it was that plug contact backed out of the housing. :lol:

 

[parajared]

I will guess you fried a hall sensor. It may have gotten very hot running the wrong combo, or maybe you just have an evil throttle hand.

+1

When you run things a bit on the hot side, the hall wires get brittle. I have had a similar thing happen to me and fixed it with a sensorless controller. I personally have had enough trouble with hall sensors/wires that I flat out hate the little hellions, and solely use sensorless controllers.

The cheaper, and likely better way to fix your problem in your case would be to diagnose your hall sensors. If I remember correcly you use a multimeter to measure the resistance between the first and last wire on each sensor.

 

[zro-1]

That's awesome advice.

I will definitely check the halls out. The motor was super hot when I looked at it when it cut out. I went and sniffed around the motor and I definitely don't smell any cooked electronics odor from the motor.

 

[dnmun]

no, the hall sensors are tiny. you would not smell it if they burnt up. but check the mosfets on your controller too. wrong phases would be really hard on thme but i cannot believe you got it to go with reversed phase wires.

 

[zro-1]

dnmun: As I was digging through the wiring when I changed the controller for testing, I found that the blue and green hall wires were also reversed at the connector. Same issue: the colors used on the GNG motor are very muted and dark, so I also got them wrong. Maybe that is why it was running OK with the blue and green phase wires reversed before it stopped?

To expound on my previous post, I corrected the wiring, making sure the hall and phase wires for blue and green were properly matched when I installed the stock GNG controller. The motor had the same issue.

I opened lyen's controller and visually everything looks sound. No melted wires, scorched PCB, melted traces, or swollen caps. I still have to open the motor to look in there.

Thanks again for all the help guys. I really appreciate it.

 

[rp3]

Slim chance this is the problem, but worth looking at.
I see you have a CA hooked up, are you running the throttle through it?
I found that if I had the throttle voltage set just that little too high on the CA the motor would cut out after a little while. It wouldn't run again until I reset the power.

 

[dnmun]

dnmun: As I was digging through the wiring when I changed the controller for testing, I found that the blue and green hall wires were also reversed at the connector. Same issue: the colors used on the GNG motor are very muted and dark, so I also got them wrong. Maybe that is why it was running OK with the blue and green phase wires reversed before it stopped?

To expound on my previous post, I corrected the wiring, making sure the hall and phase wires for blue and green were properly matched when I installed the stock GNG controller. The motor had the same issue.

I opened lyen's controller and visually everything looks sound. No melted wires, scorched PCB, melted traces, or swollen caps. I still have to open the motor to look in there.

Thanks again for all the help guys. I really appreciate it.

electrical measurements of the mosfets is what you need. they may be shorted but look ok.

 

[alsmith]

Just crossing 2 phases shouldn't blow the halls if you just run long enough to how the motor is working/which way turning/etc but if you've kept trying the throttle it's a possibility.
There'll be a 5 pin connector as well as the 3 phase wires so you can check at that connector. Lyen does a small tester that is ideal for this test, but you can do it with a multimeter. It's probably the easiest way for your next steps.
A search will bring lots of threads about it, url: Lyen has a thread in the For Sale section, and there are similar testers on ebay now. The tester can also check for other problems too.
There are threads on e-s showing hall sensor changes if you need to do it. Lyen also sells quality Honeywell hall sensors.

 

[dnmun]

he has a voltmeter. he could test the mosfets if he wanted to. you don't need a tester for that or for the halls either.