Ordering tonight. Please advise

[Smoker]

Ordering from ebikes canada.

what's the fastest 4 series owned by an ES member that is stable full throttle all day long? I have a dropout clearance of 135-145mm max and also want to consider a 5 series with a 7 speed freewheel but am not sure if it will fit (I don't want to "make it fit"). Will the 72v 20 amp controller run at 36-48v to hold me off until I build my lithium pack next year?

Thanks in advance. You guys are my support group and my addiction enablers

 

[jondoh]

I ordered from ebikes canada-- great guys. the shipment came in very fast.

I too was going to go with the 72v 20a controller but was advised to get the 48 v controller for my 56v li pack because the resistance would be lower and the controller would therefore be more efficient. I don't plan to go above 56v anytime soon so i went with the recommendation of the 48v 20a controller. my only beef with the controller (i haven't got all the parts so i haven't tested it yet) is that it's much bigger in size compared to my 36v 20a controller for the gohub kit which has been reliable for over 1500 miles.

The crystalytes are reliable so you main consideration between the 4 and 5 series is speed and weight. the 5 series are 25 lbs motors. This is pretty heavy and much heavier than the 14 lbs 4 series motors. The choice of 4 series can be made by running the simulator on the ebikes web site. I have to say that i'm pretty satisfied running my 408 at 25 miles per hour on the 56v pack.

 

[BiGH]

yeah i'd say maybe try the crystalyte canon. Like the 408 with more torque. I've got the 408 at 36V - and have to say, it def needs more torque low down, however then you want the same motor to be able to scale up to high speed too - (ie no load speed).

Don't rush ur decision on the motor! I'm still not sure i bought the right one (maybe should have gone for a 5series with more torque. The ultimate would be a motor with a high no-load speed, and high torque -but doesn't really exist in a light weight package.

 

[jondoh]

actually, the puma is a light weight, high speed, high torque motor. the problem is the $200 premium over the crystalytes.

 

[BiGH]

actually, the puma is a light weight, high speed, high torque motor. the problem is the $200 premium over the crystalytes.

hmm not as high speed as i would like though.

 

[jondoh]

maytag has his puma up to 31 mph with good torque using the same e-moli set up (56v @ 9 ah) I have. He's also using a crystalyte controller instead of the stock one which is bundled with the kit. how fast do you want to go?

 

[BiGH]

maytag has his puma up to 31 mph with good torque using the same e-moli set up (56v @ 9 ah) I have. He's also using a crystalyte controller instead of the stock one which is bundled with the kit. how fast do you want to go?

60 kph (37mph +)

but yah i do agree puma is the best all round motor out there.

 

[knightmb]

Ordering from ebikes canada.

what's the fastest 4 series owned by an ES member that is stable full throttle all day long? I have a dropout clearance of 135-145mm max and also want to consider a 5 series with a 7 speed freewheel but am not sure if it will fit (I don't want to "make it fit"). Will the 72v 20 amp controller run at 36-48v to hold me off until I build my lithium pack next year?

Thanks in advance. You guys are my support group and my addiction enablers

The fastest 4xx series that I've used personally has been the 406 for me. Even with only 48 volts, it tops out at 35 MPH on my 700C wheels. I'm using the 72 volt 20 amp controller as well. I can say from personal experience, at 72 volts, that really wakes up the motor. It's not a hill climber though, you'll need to put in some effort it you are going to power up steep hills, but on the flats it's fun. Scary going downhill

 

[xyster]

I have a dropout clearance of 135-145mm max and also want to consider a 5 series with a 7 speed freewheel but am not sure if it will fit (I don't want to "make it fit").

I have a 5304 with a three speed freewheel in 135mm dropouts. It looks like there is just enough room for a 7 speed, but a 7 speed would require too much dish IMO, weakening the wheel. Not exactly a definitive answer.... A 5 speed would fit. But heck, an X5 doesn't require any gears. If there's any hill it won't climb, it's also unlikely to be able to climb that hill with the relatively minimal additional input a puny human could provide. And the power can always be increased until it can climb that hill, with little worry of overheating.

 

[deecanio]

what is your intended voltage and ampage rating in your final setup?
everyone makes a good point about all the motors out there but imho it all depends on how you want to ride and where you want to ride.
for me i was extremely tempted by the x5 - indeed i remember Xy and me chomping at the bit to get one at the same time but it was too heavy for my use (off road) so i got the puma which is super torquey and good top end - not as good as the x5 but a good trade off for my application - you see all depends on your usage.
I wouldn't put any pressure to order on any set day - tell us your intended use and expected running voltages and then we could give you a better idea?


Cheers

D

 

[mvadventure]

Problem is there is no definitive answer to your question, at least in my limited range of experience. My 5304 is mounted on the front with a 48volt pack, 12 ah (soon to be a 20AH LIPO$) and it provides a top speed of 32 MPH with a 26" wheel. Range at that speed, which dips to about 28 or 29) is a safe 9 or ten miles.

Problem is a consistent 30 MPH is too fast for the bicycle frame while 20 MPH has two benefits, it's not only legal the frame was designed to go that speed as were the tires and wheels. I've never heard anyone complain about the hill climbing capability of the 5304 however the next fastest wheel doesn't do the hills as well.

The bike is heavy, motor is heavy, batteries are heavier yet. Any more power and it would be hard to call it a bicycle. I have made one 18 mile run with temps in the 90's and the motor showed no sign of heating up. The Crystalyte 4840 controller is mounted on top of the battery pannier and the only heat it showed was from the sun.

Make your decision and rest easy with it. There ain't a battery pack made that will give you full throttle all day long on anything so you simply have to decide on the adjustments you're willing to make.

Fun, ain't it.

Mike

 

[greasypants]

I have a 5304 with 7 speed freewheel and my dropouts are 137mm.Highly recommend the x5 at high voltage (they really need 72v volts at 35amps + to be worth while ) if you want to ride fast on the street . When you say all day how many km are you talking about?

 

[Smoker]

Thanks for your reply everyone I decided on a 406 rear hub and 72v 20a controller and a 48v to 12v dc converter. Even with extra parts for my friends bike the total was only 500ca. Beats the crap out of WE prices.

Will the DC coverter run at 72v when I do my battery upgrade? I only plan on pulling 12v 2amps from it and a 16v output would be acceptable for my application.

 

[Smoker]

I got a response from justin at ebikes canada today:



Thanks for your order. The 406 Rear comes with a 7-speed freewheel by
default; did you want the 6-speed instead?

The 72v controller, though, is really not a good match for the 406
motor. If you're planning to run at 36-48 volts, the 36v controllers
are much better suited to the task, have lower resistance mosfets, and
are cheaper to boot. We would not warranty the 72V 20A controller with
a 406 hub motor, as the mosfets would be quite liable to fry with this
combination. If you did want to run at 72V, then we would suggest the
72V 40A controller instead.

Finally, the 12v DC converters are not in stock right now. They were a
new item that we got surplus at one point and have not been able to
find them at near that price ever since. It's possible to take 2 5v DC
converters and put them in series, since the output voltages float.
Let us know your preferences here and we can send an invoice
appropriately.

Thanks,
Zev and Justin


________________________

I see other members here using the 72v 20amp controllers herewith the 406. I don't really care about warranty either. Why are they not recommending this? I plan to run it at 48volts until i get my new battery next year. What does he mean the lower voltage controllers are cheaper? I only see a $10 price difference.

Any advice would be great.

 

[knightmb]

________________________

I see other members here using the 72v 20amp controllers herewith the 406. I don't really care about warranty either. Why are they not recommending this? I plan to run it at 48volts until i get my new battery next year. What does he mean the lower voltage controllers are cheaper? I only see a $10 price difference.

Any advice would be great.

Well I always say "Experience trumps logic" in that the worst thing that's happen to me with running my 406 @ 72 volts on my 20 amp controller is that the thermal shutdown might happen if you don't have good ventilation for the controller to keep cool or it's 105 degrees outside and you decide to go for a full throttle ride around the city :wink:

I don't understand why they would sell it as a 72 volt controller if it's going to fry when you run 72 volts ? So running a 406 vs. a 408 or 4012 is going to fry it faster somehow? From my memory (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), it seems in the past it was the 35A controllers that were frying at 72 volts not the 20 amp controllers from crystalyte?

 

[DeeL2003]

Smoker: good choice on the 406. I'm glad there are others using the 406. SO far mine's been running ok . I got a rear 406 with 36-72v 35a controller and a 48v 8ah Nimh pack. Pretty much went with Justin's advice on this setup. I just need to update my batteries to LiFePO4's soon, the dreaded voltage sag is bugging me.

I'm sure you're gonna have fun with your new bike. Enjoy!

 

[oatnet]

how fast do you want to go?

60 kph (37mph +)

but yah i do agree puma is the best all round motor out there.

I believe I read that knoxie was running a Puma at 72v and exceeding 37mph... Still waiting for mine to get laced to see it for myself.

-JD