|Pen E-Board| Smallest E-board ever|Friction Drive|

I just noticed these scrapes on the three wires of the motor. I was careful to tape the wires up and stick it up to the board so that it wouldn't rub off the ground while testing.
But looks like i wasn't careful00 enough :(

2gwauds.jpg

Do you guys think these minor scrapes will mess with the performance of the motor? what should I do? Should i wrap it up with regular insulation tape?

(Disclaimer: I've never seen a brushless motor in action except in youtube videos)
 
for esthetics you could remount the motor shaft and make it a "pusher" and switch it so it'll stick out the other side.

plug it in and see what sounds come out. I think the sound the motor makes is amazing : electric motors are similar in construction to speakers and the sound it makes isn't a hidden speaker but the motor itself vibrating the wire windings...like a speaker.

to be safe you should connect everything with something else in the circuit the first time just incase one of the motor windings is shorted to something. If that were to happen you can burn-up your esc as well as your motor. probably good from the factory but it's recommended by people. Not that I took the safe route though. I think you can add just about anything. research it more though because i didn't do it.

get some heat shrink tubing you now have another reason for it.

I hope it's under-geared!! because then my world will make sense and you can reterminate it to wye and tell me how that goes.
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
for esthetics you could remount the motor shaft and make it a "pusher" and switch it so it'll stick out the other side.

plug it in and see what sounds come out. I think the sound the motor makes is amazing : electric motors are similar in construction to speakers and the sound it makes isn't a hidden speaker but the motor itself vibrating the wire windings...like a speaker.

to be safe you should connect everything with something else in the circuit the first time just incase one of the motor windings is shorted to something. If that were to happen you can burn-up your esc as well as your motor. probably good from the factory but it's recommended by people. Not that I took the safe route though. I think you can add just about anything. research it more though because i didn't do it.

get some heat shrink tubing you now have another reason for it.

I hope it's under-geared!! because then my world will make sense and you can reterminate it to wye and tell me how that goes.
Click to expand...

Turning the Motor into a pusher- would mean the Motor shaft would be on the inside? Is that correct?

Well I saw a video of pull to pusher conversion of a brushless motors- Involves opening up the whole motor and a lot more complicated things. I don't think I'm ready to open the motor up :s- it all seems too complicated.

What do you mean by ' to be safe you should connect everything with something else in the circuit the first time just incase one of the motor windings is shorted to something.'? Everything with something else?? Why would the motor windings be shorted? Does it happen for real that brushless motors come from the factory with windings shorted?

I sure hope it isn't under geared and works well- cuz I'm not pro enough to figure out and actually reterminate a brushless motor. :(
 
papertriping said:
Thanks Pediglide! :) Nice board btw!- is there a build log for it?
Click to expand...

You're welcome. Thanks, but nah, no build log...you're the only one who asked actually. :D
 
The safer way, adding something in the curcuit, I was told about here and someone else would be better at explaining since I don't really know and didn't do it.
Actually the reterminating outside the motor I can't find on the web and haven't heard of anyone doing it I asked about doing it on rcgroups and was told its doable. Taking the motor apart to do it is really difficult if not impossible sometimes. But look at this. U can see the windings are the same and its just ending part that's different. In theory u should be able to find the starts and ends of all the thin wire threads and then turn all the ends to a bundle and solder them together. You have delta likely. And in also assuming you have the delta termination.

Open your motor up!!! And them you'll see what you have. Easy to open especially if you have the special c-clamp too that holds it. U can use thin metal spokes though.

I like the idea of using a zip or Velcro cd case for electronics compartment.
 

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It's easy to find which wires go to each winding. The problem is finding their polarity, or if it matters. I have a motor opened up, that I have been waiting to find this info out. If the polarity of each winding matters and there is a method of finding it it will be easy to convert and I can provide some pictures.
 
I looked into rewinding my ntms into delta wye configuration to get the ooooo-aaaaaaa effect on my outrunner i get on my 100 hp mill and pulverizer on the factory floor..., but after a lot of reading gave up since the lower rpm phase does not have more torque than the higher rpm phase. There is no mechanical advantage to the lesser rpm'd motor.. just the capacity of over amping it for long periods of time without burning it...
Hence no real advantage to our design needs, with a igh risk of damage to the motor or motor and esc if the thing isnt connected correctly.

If this is not the case and there is an actual increase in torque as a response to the lesser rpm someone please comment on it as i would rethink my previous motor for a motorized drift trike proyect...

Also dont run your motor with the phases connected or you will get a dynamic-brake effect as your motor shorts itself... no damage but it will slow down your board making it feel slugish.. It is a good idea to tape them together to protect them.... just dont short them.
 
I can imagine half a windin would be overlapping if u terminated outside the motor and that's not good but i thought a lower kv would be more efficient with less gearing and give more torque per amp. That's what I read. Similarly we can't use a 600kv motor on a skateboard without a much bigger gear otherwise it wouldn't have as much torque. I'm still believing this until someone can explain how it's not the case
A motor's ultimate capability is determined by size but at what rpm it can supply that power efficiently is decided by kv. Low kv motors are used in rc planes with direct drive and without a gearbox, if u tried to do a direct drive in a plane with a higher kv...wouldn't be good.
 
I believe we should wait for someone who has done this to intercede before PT tears apart his motor, or before we assume that a different winding alters the torque, as i said before in large delta wye systems the function of the recabling is not to provide extra torque but to safely handle higher amps for several seconds till inertia has been broken and the regular amperage can be safely held.

From what I read PT has access to a single motor... so we should be very carefull in our recomendations regarding things we have no experience with...

also PT looking at your setup... remember you will need to connect your batteries in series to get your 6s so you will need a nother connector or weld your batts together and recycle your connector
 
I looked at the comments on the board talking about effciency..
Im talking survivability... also neither is skateboard oriented.. airplane flight is not the same..
I dont agree... I had over 2830 kms on the velociraptor's ntm 5060s before it died.. and it died because it smacked into a rock at 40 kms and a magnet flew out. Every single mile was ran at 6s, not the recomended 8s...
The destroyer's Tacon has over 2000 kms on it on 12s max speed 68kph and Ive never gotten past 45 kph max.. except for the day i went for max speed and did 54kph... and before it went on the destroyer it was on my original alum board, you guessed it at 6s...
So I say nope it does not matter... so do my motors...
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
The safer way, adding something in the curcuit, I was told about here and someone else would be better at explaining since I don't really know and didn't do it.
Actually the reterminating outside the motor I can't find on the web and haven't heard of anyone doing it I asked about doing it on rcgroups and was told its doable. Taking the motor apart to do it is really difficult if not impossible sometimes. But look at this. U can see the windings are the same and its just ending part that's different. In theory u should be able to find the starts and ends of all the thin wire threads and then turn all the ends to a bundle and solder them together. You have delta likely. And in also assuming you have the delta termination.

Open your motor up!!! And them you'll see what you have. Easy to open especially if you have the special c-clamp too that holds it. U can use thin metal spokes though.

I like the idea of using a zip or Velcro cd case for electronics compartment.
Click to expand...

Hummina Shadeeba: I am not going to open up the motor- so lets just put that to rest.:)
 
beto_pty said:
I believe we should wait for someone who has done this to intercede before PT tears apart his motor, or before we assume that a different winding alters the torque, as i said before in large delta wye systems the function of the recabling is not to provide extra torque but to safely handle higher amps for several seconds till inertia has been broken and the regular amperage can be safely held.

From what I read PT has access to a single motor... so we should be very carefull in our recomendations regarding things we have no experience with...

also PT looking at your setup... remember you will need to connect your batteries in series to get your 6s so you will need a nother connector or weld your batts together and recycle your connector
Click to expand...


Yup I got a series connector harness for the Lipos
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18603__HXT4mm_Battery_Harness_14AWG_for_2_Packs_in_Series.html

I have a question
If One were to weld the batteries together- that would mean the batteries would permanently be in series- wouldn't this be a problem while charging? I've seena few videos about Lipo charging- they say the batteries should be connected in parallel while charging- is this true?

How should I be charging my batteries, series, parallel or separate?
 
You can charge in series just as long as you have a battery charger capable of charging the voltage you are using in series.

Typically, this is 6S and/or 8S. To charge at higher voltages would require much more expensive chargers. Most people tend to rewire their packs or have cable adapters to convert them to 6S for easy charging purposes.

Most people charge in parallel. You can buy parallel charging cables almost for any connector and/or create your own. The max they seem to have for charging is a 6 battery pair - at least one you can buy.

In other words, you wouldn't want a 24S battery as you can't charge with a 6S/8S battery charger. You would need to reconfigure the pack for charging at 6S/8S. You could charge at 12S but your talking about a $500+ charger or so. What people will do is have (4) separate 6s packs easily removable for charging and wire together in series to create a (4) 6S = 24S pack when using the pack.
 
Wait. In my defense I'm not suggesting PT tear apart his motor. Opening the motor isnt a dangerous procedure and I'm sure he could do it and put it back together. From there he could tell how many poles and magnets he has and from that narrow-down the winding pattern and possible termination. He could see a wye bundle if he opened it for all we know since rarely does HK tell whats inside.
The reterminating I was suggesting he possibly try outside the motor and as I wrote if it doesn't work and he can't find all the starts and ends that way he can just shrink wrap it back up. He's got it cut open anyway from grinding the sidewalk. Id have done it myself but the motor I plan to do it with is jammed. Ill find out if its doable for sure or do it myself

Beto I wish you'd spoke sooner as I've been trying to find someone to tell me I'm wrong about PT's kv being an issue. Over on rcgroups they're insisting a motor should be run at 80% of the no-load kv max for best efficiency. With PTs mount he has around a 1:1.25 gearing with a motor that would roughly hit 25mph if the kv were right but I think with the kv he has its like 40mph which isn't going to work

About your experience Beto I don't think there is a recommended 8s and 6s is fine but tell me if I'm wrong on that. (Maybe it needs enough emf feedback?) 12s though would be an annalogeous situation to PT's maybe. With what motor, kv, gearing and did it get hot or get as good a range? Did you adjust any setting?
I definitely don't want PT to ruin his motor and Im not suggesting anything that would risk that, but I'm also trying to understand how his 1:1.25ish gearing should be dealt with
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
Wait. In my defense I'm not suggesting PT tear apart his motor. Opening the motor isnt a dangerous procedure and I'm sure he could do it and put it back together. From there he could tell how many poles and magnets he has and from that narrow-down the winding pattern and possible termination. He could see a wye bundle if he opened it for all we know since rarely does HK tell whats inside.
The reterminating I was suggesting he possibly try outside the motor and as I wrote if it doesn't work and he can't find all the starts and ends that way he can just shrink wrap it back up. He's got it cut open anyway from grinding the sidewalk. Id have done it myself but the motor I plan to do it with is jammed. Ill find out if its doable for sure or do it myself

Beto I wish you'd spoke sooner as I've been trying to find someone to tell me I'm wrong about PT's kv being an issue. Over on rcgroups they're insisting a motor should be run at 80% of the no-load kv max for best efficiency. With PTs mount he has around a 1:1.25 gearing with a motor that would roughly hit 25mph if the kv were right but I think with the kv he has its like 40mph which isn't going to work

About your experience Beto I don't think there is a recommended 8s and 6s is fine but tell me if I'm wrong on that. (Maybe it needs enough emf feedback?) 12s though would be an annalogeous situation to PT's maybe. With what motor, kv, gearing and did it get hot or get as good a range? Did you adjust any setting?
I definitely don't want PT to ruin his motor and Im not suggesting anything that would risk that, but I'm also trying to understand how his 1:1.25ish gearing should be dealt with
Click to expand...

Hummina You need no defense you are not under attack, if it sounded that way Im sorry and will try to phrase my objections in a gentler manner in the future... this is an open forum and your input is not only required, valuable but also appreciated, and is what makes this invention/tinkering soup work. I am far from having all the answers.. but i ride over 100 kms a week so things that are problematic vs those which probably aren't...do tend to jump out at me...

My knowledge in airplane design and running is as limited as many rc group's knowledge and experience in e-board design and running, the theory might be there and efficiency wise there might be a difference, my comment is to the effect that at sustained sub 50% and even less they do not burn up and they show no sign of the electrical equivalent of wear and tear. I have no idea if this is or inst important to an airplane, but my board does not care... :D

From the 6th post I made it clear that there might be torque/slippage issues that needed to be addressed, associated with the use of a direct drive NTM 270 Kv with a 50 mm motor. Hopefully the weight difference between PT (130 lbs) and I (200 lbs) will make it all right but it should be addressed none the less.. in case heavier riders decide to apply the idea.

The tacon (suitable for 14s) runs well on 6s and 12s... just connected to the appropriate 6s-8s-12s esc...just always on high (or second to highest) timing.

PT welding the batteries is a good alternative since it allows single connection/disconnection of the system. However if one battery dies you need to re-disconnect them to save the good one. However if you already have the series connecter you do not need the added complexity. I live outside the US and Europe as well and don't always have the parts I need so welding is a good immediate alternative which might not be considered by someone who is 30 minutes away from a hobby shop or has overnight delivery from hobby king. You would also need a 2 3s to 6s plug so you can balance them on your charger, as well as connect to your low battery alarm such as this http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18588__Hobbyking_2_8S_Cell_Checker_with_Low_Voltage_Alarm.html which will save your batteries from draing if/when one of the cell gets weak. That has been my single largest problem.. and the weakest link in this hobby. This alarm wil make it a little less problematic.

I use xt60s to connect the hobbyking to the batts. Your 6s charger will not care.. as the amps will be halved charging at 6s as compared to charging at 3s.. so the time would probably be roughly the same... you'd just have to reconnect/disconnect some more cables.
 
Thanks Beto. feeling insecure with my lack of an actual board. Soon I will reemerge from poorness and get my board finished and I will be hunting for your speed record. The board is going to be awesome: Tacon160 motor off the front, drop board with 44 degree caliper dropped through. Found my flexy bamboo and gullwing sidewinders not good for...beating your record.

I am interested in this debate though but am out of knowledge. I'm trying to find answers to how things go with your mount PT and might have to wait for your first-hand experience. Your motor mount and the questions it raises are my pet interest as you can probably tell by now.

Wish someone would throw us a thought.

:D
 
torqueboards said:
You can charge in series just as long as you have a battery charger capable of charging the voltage you are using in series.

Typically, this is 6S and/or 8S. To charge at higher voltages would require much more expensive chargers. Most people tend to rewire their packs or have cable adapters to convert them to 6S for easy charging purposes.

Most people charge in parallel. You can buy parallel charging cables almost for any connector and/or create your own. The max they seem to have for charging is a 6 battery pair - at least one you can buy.

In other words, you wouldn't want a 24S battery as you can't charge with a 6S/8S battery charger. You would need to reconfigure the pack for charging at 6S/8S. You could charge at 12S but your talking about a $500+ charger or so. What people will do is have (4) separate 6s packs easily removable for charging and wire together in series to create a (4) 6S = 24S pack when using the pack.
Click to expand...

Thanks Torqueboards!! I've never worked with Lipo's, Brushless motors etc up until now- I'm gonna have to read what u said many time over to fully get it. But thanks a bunch!!
 
So, I got a plastic box that seems to fit right. It' a little too tall- I intend to cut it down to size (for maximum ground clearance possible)

2i9ik1v.jpg


I'm thinking of drilling holes into the Plastic box and Cable tie all the components (Esc- Lipo, Reciever) to the base of the Plastic box (the side resting on the skateboard)

Is this a good idea? Will the esc get too hot and melt the Cable ties?

aw22py.jpg


Now, at this moment my biggest question is what connectors do i use?

Here are the components
671ied.jpg


Here is my charger (and the chords it came with- none will fit the 4mm bullet connectors on my Zippy Lipos)
2cz6il1.jpg


The only local option I have for connectors is 4mm Bullet connectors with case.
This
zluf5c.jpg


How many of these will i need? in order to connect the below listed

1. Series 6S lipo battery to the ESC
2. Motor to ESC
3. Lipo to Charger for charging (i was thinking of cutting off the XT60 connectors that came with the charger and soldering on a 4mm bullet connector in it's place- so i don't have to buy wire- is this a good idea?)

Please correct me if I'm wrong
Based on my limited knowledge I think i will need 5 x 4mm bullet connectors so that

1. 3 female from 3 bullet connectors to be used on the ESC to connect to the 3 male bullet leads from the motor
2. 1 Bullet connector (Male and female)- to be soldered to esc to connect to the series 6S lipo
3. 1 Bullet connector (Male and female)- to be soldered in place of the XT60 connector on the chord that came with the charger- for charging the lipos

Please could someone confirm whether i'm right about this? so i can go ahead and place the order for 5- 4mm HXT bullet connectors (and some heat shrink tubing)

Thanks in advance! :)
 
beto_pty said:
PT welding the batteries is a good alternative since it allows single connection/disconnection of the system. However if one battery dies you need to re-disconnect them to save the good one. However if you already have the series connecter you do not need the added complexity. I live outside the US and Europe as well and don't always have the parts I need so welding is a good immediate alternative which might not be considered by someone who is 30 minutes away from a hobby shop or has overnight delivery from hobby king. You would also need a 2 3s to 6s plug so you can balance them on your charger, as well as connect to your low battery alarm such as this http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18588__Hobbyking_2_8S_Cell_Checker_with_Low_Voltage_Alarm.html which will save your batteries from draing if/when one of the cell gets weak. That has been my single largest problem.. and the weakest link in this hobby. This alarm wil make it a little less problematic.

I use xt60s to connect the hobbyking to the batts. Your 6s charger will not care.. as the amps will be halved charging at 6s as compared to charging at 3s.. so the time would probably be roughly the same... you'd just have to reconnect/disconnect some more cables.
Click to expand...

Yes I'm very much considering getting an alarm soon. I'm scheduled to travel to hong kong end of october- so I'm gonna get all the stuff i need then- for now I want to get the board up and running so i can have it in running condition when in Hong kong! :D

Thanks Beto for your guidance! my respect!
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
I am interested in this debate though but am out of knowledge. I'm trying to find answers to how things go with your mount PT and might have to wait for your first-hand experience. Your motor mount and the questions it raises are my pet interest as you can probably tell by now.

Wish someone would throw us a thought.

:D
Click to expand...

You and I both Hummina Shadeeba- u and me both! :)

we'll know soon
 
Here's an old video of me with my friction-drive:

[youtube]rH5Lt2EVcVE[/youtube]

Tacon 245 KV, Hobbywing ESC
110mm Zboard rear wheel
80mm generic urethane front wheels
Generic Penny (nickel-size) board

I had the trigger at full, but as you can tell its not going that fast.
It was 6s lipo, maybe it'll go faster with 8s or 10s (maybe I need to diet).
 
Zboard wheels don't have lots of rolling resistance but that's pretty slow compared to what others are getting with that motor. Same diameter as PT. does it get hot an get bad range? How's it on hills ? With 2:1 or about people are getting almost 30 on flats.

Or sorry I'm confusing it with the tacon160.
oo and also yes the zboard wheels have a lot of resistance. dont know what I'm writing and thinking here but that's what I meant
 
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