buddhafish
100 µW
Hello all, I just put a new bms on my ping 48v 15 ah. Got a few low cells, but where do I place the single cell charger on it? What I need is a pic of a single cell charger on a ping bms. Thanks for any help
ping bms issue
- Thread starter buddhafish
- Start date
dnmun
1 PW
what kind of BMS did you get? post a picture. what was wrong with the original ping signalab BMS?
you should put the leads from the single cell charger directly on the terminals of the cells.
did you measure the voltages while charging or after you disconnected the charger? which ones are low? have you actually measured capacity or you think there is something wrong because the voltage is low on some cells and not on others?
you should put the leads from the single cell charger directly on the terminals of the cells.
did you measure the voltages while charging or after you disconnected the charger? which ones are low? have you actually measured capacity or you think there is something wrong because the voltage is low on some cells and not on others?
buddhafish
100 µW
Got a new Signalab from Ping a few days ago. Put it on, charged it. Only 4 leds lit up. Ping sent me some diagram that I do not understand. If anyone can post a pic or a link to a pic of a Signalab bms with a single cell charger on it that would be a HUGE help.
Rassy
1 MW
Hi Bud and welcome to the forum.
Since you have just put the new BMS on, you can safely, easily, and rather quickly balance the battery without using a single cell charger. Just unplug the charger from the battery until the four LED's turn off, then plug in the charger again (leaving the charger on until it shuts off). Repeat this process until all LED's light up, indicating all cells are fully charged. Of course, this assumes there are no totally shot cells.
You can carefully probe with your multimeter right where the 16 pin mini plug attaches to the BMS to check and watch the progress of each cell (sub parallel pack of 3 cells).
After my Son and Daughter-in-Law let a 48V 15AH battery get way out of balance it took several days to get it fully charged using the above procedure.
Since you have just put the new BMS on, you can safely, easily, and rather quickly balance the battery without using a single cell charger. Just unplug the charger from the battery until the four LED's turn off, then plug in the charger again (leaving the charger on until it shuts off). Repeat this process until all LED's light up, indicating all cells are fully charged. Of course, this assumes there are no totally shot cells.
You can carefully probe with your multimeter right where the 16 pin mini plug attaches to the BMS to check and watch the progress of each cell (sub parallel pack of 3 cells).
After my Son and Daughter-in-Law let a 48V 15AH battery get way out of balance it took several days to get it fully charged using the above procedure.
buddhafish
100 µW
Thanks for the welcome. I been here for a few years but never post until now. I checked the cells with my multi all were at 3 or better, the pack is at 51v total. Took a ride around the block and it droped to 47v so my ride was ended. Gonna try it your way but I still need to know where to aply the single cell charger to the board (need a pic) thanks again
Rassy
1 MW
Sounds like your pack will be ok.
I did do some single cell charging on my first Ping copy V1 LiFePO4 when it was going south. What Dnmun says is all good, but I just made an adapter to a low voltage wall wart by adding a straight pin to each wire and inserting the straight pins into the appropriate points of the 16 pin connector at the BMS. Saves unwrapping the entire battery and possibly damaging the sense wires or pouches, however it doesn't allow you to examine the basic connections or test actual individual pouches. Frankly, I found it a lot easier, quicker, and safer to use the procedure I mentioned earlier to rebalance a good but neglected battery.
Here's why the new BMS with the LED's works so good. When the charger shuts off it means at least one of the cells (sub packs) has reached max voltage. By unplugging the charger from the battery at that point, the LED's will drain the higher cells down to a lower resting voltage. Then, when you plug in the charger again all cells will receive a higher current (until the charger shuts off) then they would if you just left the charger plugged in.
I did do some single cell charging on my first Ping copy V1 LiFePO4 when it was going south. What Dnmun says is all good, but I just made an adapter to a low voltage wall wart by adding a straight pin to each wire and inserting the straight pins into the appropriate points of the 16 pin connector at the BMS. Saves unwrapping the entire battery and possibly damaging the sense wires or pouches, however it doesn't allow you to examine the basic connections or test actual individual pouches. Frankly, I found it a lot easier, quicker, and safer to use the procedure I mentioned earlier to rebalance a good but neglected battery.
Here's why the new BMS with the LED's works so good. When the charger shuts off it means at least one of the cells (sub packs) has reached max voltage. By unplugging the charger from the battery at that point, the LED's will drain the higher cells down to a lower resting voltage. Then, when you plug in the charger again all cells will receive a higher current (until the charger shuts off) then they would if you just left the charger plugged in.
buddhafish
100 µW
Still only getting 4 leds after 6 or so plug in/outs. Takes a while for them to turn off, then less then a min to lit up the 4. Multi reads 52.7v off charger with only 4 leds lit.
Rassy
1 MW
Well, it sounds like it's working, since you reported 51V earlier, and now its almost 53V. I know it's a pain, but the battery does need to be recovered. You would also have to invest a fair amount of time and effort to charge and monitor each cell individually.
You didn't say why the battery got so far out of balance, but for my son, since they don't ride regularly, we put the charger on a little timer that turns it on for a while once a day. Now the battery is always fully charged and balanced and ready to use when they want it. May affect it's life though. Their battery got out of balance because they used to just partially charge it before each ride and never let it fully charge and balance.
You didn't say why the battery got so far out of balance, but for my son, since they don't ride regularly, we put the charger on a little timer that turns it on for a while once a day. Now the battery is always fully charged and balanced and ready to use when they want it. May affect it's life though. Their battery got out of balance because they used to just partially charge it before each ride and never let it fully charge and balance.
buddhafish
100 µW
My old bms had leds that didnt turn off. After a few emails with Mr Ping we deduced it was a bad bms. 3 weeks later the new one got here. Last night I put on the new bms charged it up and thats when the charger stoped with only 3 leds lit. After more emails with Mr Ping he said to keep it on the charger until more leds came on. Today the 4th led came on. The pack is 3 years old with only 3000 miles on it. Dratz! I hope this thing is not on its death bed.
DAND214
10 MW
That's better than I got!
Leave the charger on till they all light up. Or single charge them as you asked about.
Dan
Rassy
1 MW
Sounds like the bad BMS caused the imbalance when it let some LEDs stay on. Too bad but that's history now. I think someone else on the forum reported the same problem a while back. I guess if anyone notices that problem they need to monitor the cells and probably disconnect the BMS until they can replace it.
I still think your battery will be fine since all cells were 3V and higher. If it does fail sooner than you would like it just gives you a good excuse to get a newer/better battery.
I still think your battery will be fine since all cells were 3V and higher. If it does fail sooner than you would like it just gives you a good excuse to get a newer/better battery.
dnmun
1 PW
there is no evidence he had a bad BMS. unless he can investigate more clearly it is impossible to say why his pack is so unbalanced. his title is ping BMS issue, but instead he asked how to charge up the pack through the BMS with a single cell charger which is nothing to do with a BMS issue. just more bad press for ping sucked up by the google bot.
buddhafish
100 µW
dnmun, Mr Ping told me that I needed to replace the bms. Also the issue is HOW do I charge it with the single cell charger. The diagram Ping emailed me is very hard to understand. Thats the issue. So If you have a pic of a single cell charger on a Signalab please share it so I dont place the clips in the wrong place.
dnmun
1 PW
i explained in the first post that it is impossible to use the single cell charger to charge the battery from the V2.5 BMS.
there is nothing on the BMS that you can attach the single cell charger leads to that allow you to charge the battery from the BMS.
you can do like rassy and pull the sense wire cable off and then make a connection to the cells through the sense wire cable but the wires are tiny and the connections on the adjacent pins are 2.54mm apart so it is impossible not to short them.
when you jam a big needle into the sense wire plug to use it to charge, you will bend out the clip inside the plug so that it will never seat properly on the pins of the BMS again and will lead to failure of the BMS to balance or even shut it down when the connections open later from being to loose to make contact any more.
you never presented evidence there was anything wrong with the BMS but you ran a thread with a title that says you do have an 'issue' with the BMS.
your issue is that you do not wanna put the single cell charger on the cells to charge. there is nothing wrong with the BMS.
there is nothing on the BMS that you can attach the single cell charger leads to that allow you to charge the battery from the BMS.
you can do like rassy and pull the sense wire cable off and then make a connection to the cells through the sense wire cable but the wires are tiny and the connections on the adjacent pins are 2.54mm apart so it is impossible not to short them.
when you jam a big needle into the sense wire plug to use it to charge, you will bend out the clip inside the plug so that it will never seat properly on the pins of the BMS again and will lead to failure of the BMS to balance or even shut it down when the connections open later from being to loose to make contact any more.
you never presented evidence there was anything wrong with the BMS but you ran a thread with a title that says you do have an 'issue' with the BMS.
your issue is that you do not wanna put the single cell charger on the cells to charge. there is nothing wrong with the BMS.
Jason27
10 kW
Is ping sending you a new bms?
999zip999
100 TW
Just plug in the charger and charge the battery the bms will discharge the high cells at a low rate so leave it on the charger and let the BMS do it job. This can take over nite. If you are good you take a light and discharge the high cells and charge the the low cells with a single cell charger. But must be very careful as this is where something goes POP. Leave on the charger and walk away.
Rassy
1 MW
Good advice and it works, but it may take days, not just overnight. Once the charger shuts off and goes into balance mode a very small current is supplied, for all practical purposes the amount it takes to light the LEDs.
RICK
10 mW
I charged an unbalanced cell (on a ping 48v 15 ah) thru the sense cable by folding some stranded copper wire and jamming it into the plug, It did not hurt the socket. It isn't something you should do all the time. Be careful not to overcharge, the response is not linear and you need to keep an eye on it.
The unbalanced cell was due to a damaged BMS (user error). A new BMS fixed that problem. Mr. Ping was prompt and helpful with the new BMS.
I did end up replacing the charging FET but that is a different thread.
The unbalanced cell was due to a damaged BMS (user error). A new BMS fixed that problem. Mr. Ping was prompt and helpful with the new BMS.
I did end up replacing the charging FET but that is a different thread.
999zip999
100 TW
Ping send me a extra set of 16s wires I used for monitoring. I would just put sense wires on it that could hook in to a meter or for single cell charger.
RICK
10 mW
I also got a set of 16s wires. To use them for monitoring/charging individual cells wouldn't the connector have to plug into the existing sense wire connector from the battery? Mine is all taped up/shrink wrapped so its hard to see if that would work.
It would be great in general to have a second connector for monitoring purposes...
It would be great in general to have a second connector for monitoring purposes...
dogman dan
1 PW
Many of the smarter ones have added a balancing and monitoring plug to their ping or similar lifepo4 batteries.
I keep meaning to do that to mine too. Now that it's getting older I may want to watch it closer. When new, All the bms led's lit up so good, all within a few minuites of each other, I clearly didn't need additional monitoring.
But once you have a cell that clearly needs more time to balance, it would be real nice to have a way to check that cell as you discharge, and a way to single cell charge it easily.
I keep meaning to do that to mine too. Now that it's getting older I may want to watch it closer. When new, All the bms led's lit up so good, all within a few minuites of each other, I clearly didn't need additional monitoring.
But once you have a cell that clearly needs more time to balance, it would be real nice to have a way to check that cell as you discharge, and a way to single cell charge it easily.
buddhafish
100 µW
Thanks everyone for all the help. Mr Ping emailed me the photos I needed a few days ago. Got the pack on the main charger the last 2 days. Pack reads 55.8v now- with only 5 leds lit. Cell 16 threw 12 are lit. Gonna leave it on the charger a day or 2 more before I try a ride. Mr Ping gets 5 stars from me, his customer service is wonderful!
Rassy
1 MW
Glad to hear your battery is still recovering. No matter what method you were to use it would take time to get it balanced.
Short rides that only consume 1 or 2 AH should not hurt anything at this point, and of course the LVC should protect the cells if you overdo it.
+1 on Ping always being helpful.
Short rides that only consume 1 or 2 AH should not hurt anything at this point, and of course the LVC should protect the cells if you overdo it.
+1 on Ping always being helpful.
dnmun
1 PW
the only thing people will see about this thread when they google ping is that there is a report of a problem with a ping BMS. add that to the dozens people have posted up over the last few years wit the same title of something wrong with the BMS. nobody would buy a ping if they actually googled it and saw how many claims of bad quality and bad BMS issues were made.
what amazes me is that he thinks there is something wrong with the pack enuff to make ping give him a new BMS but doesn't wanna see if there is any evidence of damage to the pack by pulling the tape off.
the first thing i do when i get a ping pack is pull off all the tape so i can see it. the 48V20Ah pack i just got has already been untaped and inverted to help it last longer.
if you leave it taped up as it expands then the tape distorts the corners and damages the pouches where they swell up with time.
what amazes me is that he thinks there is something wrong with the pack enuff to make ping give him a new BMS but doesn't wanna see if there is any evidence of damage to the pack by pulling the tape off.
the first thing i do when i get a ping pack is pull off all the tape so i can see it. the 48V20Ah pack i just got has already been untaped and inverted to help it last longer.
if you leave it taped up as it expands then the tape distorts the corners and damages the pouches where they swell up with time.
Rassy
1 MW
dnmun, I really disagree with you here. Even though you are way more capable and inquisitive than the average Joe, we mostly just want our stuff to work. There is a definite risk in opening a pack, from breaking small sense wires, shorting cells, and tearing pouches.
The OP had correctly determined his two year old BMS had failed and that his battery was unbalanced but no cells were discharged into the danger zone. There was no reason to open up the pack, and Ping agreed (correctly) that replacing the BMS should correct his problem.
As far as the name of the thread goes, there was a Ping BMS issue, it was fixed, and Ping was given 5 stars.
The OP had correctly determined his two year old BMS had failed and that his battery was unbalanced but no cells were discharged into the danger zone. There was no reason to open up the pack, and Ping agreed (correctly) that replacing the BMS should correct his problem.
As far as the name of the thread goes, there was a Ping BMS issue, it was fixed, and Ping was given 5 stars.
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