The lightest/stealthiest option I've seen on ES is Kepler's friction drive, which is much lighter than a hub, inconspicuous, and provides the low level of assistance, appearing to match the OP's criteria.
Planning ultralight, stealthy, silent build, questions..
- Thread starter croowley
- Start date
So tell me the issues instead of calling me out like this. I´m here to get help I don't know why you guys have this kinda attitude?
What´s the issue exactly? What is snarky, foolish, arbitrary and fad chasing?
Should I change forum?
Simple and straightforward as in easily manufacturing a custom part?
I know my preferences and I´m here to build a bike.
I'm saying the thread overall got snarky, not pointing all the fingers at you.
No need to change forum. I hope you get the help you need.
Just suggest you keep things simple and flexible if this is your first build. Nobody's first ebike conversion is their last..
Surely we can beat that. I like it, any link?The lightest/stealthiest option I've seen on ES is Kepler's friction drive, which is much lighter than a hub, inconspicuous, and provides the low level of assistance, appearing to match the OP's criteria.
This will be my third, some things are completely new since I've had completely different bikes and I do appreciate the input I get but some seems a bit snarkyI'm saying the thread overall got snarky, not pointing all the fingers at you.
No need to change forum. I hope you get the help you need.
Just suggest you keep things simple and flexible if this is your first build. Nobody's first ebike conversion is their last..
I've been involved with, and led, a few projects that I felt had little chance of coming to fruition, but they did. The key was to invest time in a well thought out, well defined, and comprehensive goal, and ensuring any actions directly support the goal. That means if you have a solution to an issue that adds weight, no matter how little, it's not a complete solution unless you have something to offset that increase, and hopefully reduce the overall weight. You'll get help if you are serious and treat it that way. Things like aesthetics are squishy and undefined, so you'll need to address those yourself.
It wasn't a one and done solution, so interesting to see the R&D evolve.
Kepler Friction drive comes of age.
Many here are probably aware of my ongoing love hate affair with friction drives. My latest design has been tested over 5000km of commuting and has been been documented on this thread https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74269 After discussions with US interests, I have...
endless-sphere.com
Chalo
100 TW
My limited observation of bikes that use toy airplane motors is that they make a conspicuous robotic noise. Probably a sine or FOC controller would reduce this.The lightest/stealthiest option I've seen on ES is Kepler's friction drive, which is much lighter than a hub, inconspicuous, and provides the low level of assistance, appearing to match the OP's criteria.
Problem identified; possible offsetting solutions provided, remaining consistent with the goal
I haven't heard the Kepler version, but the commercial versions definitely not silent, and I think having knobby tires contributes to more noise as well.
You will all laugh and I don´t need doubt and impossibilities. Let´s see where it lands
Hey I was asking not to shame you or make fun of you but in hopes for someone to share a decent rim they know of that falls within your budget. Good luck finding a solution.
Chalo
100 TW
XC924 Carbon XC Rim - Light Bicycle
The XC924 is the lightest 29er XC carbon rim we've ever developed (it weighs only 250g). The rim features innovative hybrid hooks for extra assurance under higher pressures while maintaining a perfect tire and rim engagement. Looking to build a sub-1100g XC wheelset? Get the XC924.
www.lightbicycle.com
Thank you.
All good man but I know some will you knowHey I was asking not to shame you or make fun of you but in hopes for someone to share a decent rim they know of that falls within your budget. Good luck finding a solution.
Wow those are light! Nice!XC924 Carbon XC Rim - Light Bicycle
The XC924 is the lightest 29er XC carbon rim we've ever developed (it weighs only 250g). The rim features innovative hybrid hooks for extra assurance under higher pressures while maintaining a perfect tire and rim engagement. Looking to build a sub-1100g XC wheelset? Get the XC924.www.lightbicycle.com
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Note for your planning purposes that if "28H" means 28 holes/spokes, you may not be able to lace one with a hub motor, but they'll work for the mid drive, friction drive or other non-hub options.
As the steel on these motor's axles are crap I think torque arms are a necessity especially if you want regen. Every right thinking person should want regen. Saves on brakes, saves on battery. To be honest I can't think of a reason to not want regen other than your bike can't take it without breaking. If so, time for a different bike.
Looks like you can get one in 32 and 36. however one will set you back ~$300
I'd agree normally, but due to the weight restriction, seems like a direct drive motor is out of the running, and my assumption is the motor will be a pretty small geared hub, so steel dropouts would suffice. He could weld the clutch to get regen, but then coasting is affected.As the steel on these motor's axles are crap I think torque arms are a necessity especially if you want regen. Every right thinking person should want regen. Saves on brakes, saves on battery. To be honest I can't think of a reason to not want regen other than your bike can't take it without breaking. If so, time for a different bike.
I miss regen <sigh>. The impact of not having it is twofold; a noticeable reduction in range and an increase in charging time, the second being worse.
Chalo
100 TW
That outfit will customize rims, and drillings are just about the easiest thing to customize.
Threefold for me: (third) increased brake pad wear.
I forgot about that, and that's huge. I never changed my BB7 pads the whole time I had them because of regen. Now it seems like every couple of months, using semi-metallic pads and hydraulic calipers.
Alright people.. How´s your evenings?
List is coming together somewhat..
According to my semi-accurate estimations we are well below 10kg with the g310 and rigid fork which was my plan from the beginning but I had a very good deal on a SID XX so with another kg to add I'm now speculating how to remove some weight elsewhere.
Read some blog that I cannot find again about reducing weight in the motor by changing parts to alu..
Question is, what parts can be exchanged for different materials except the most obvious ones..?
Can I for example replace heavy disk/plate holding gears for alu or even carbon without compromising performance?
According to the blog, up to 500g could be saved on a larger slightly larger hub motor..
Don't really care if u think it´s worth it or not , just wanna know what´s possible alright
List is coming together somewhat..
According to my semi-accurate estimations we are well below 10kg with the g310 and rigid fork which was my plan from the beginning but I had a very good deal on a SID XX so with another kg to add I'm now speculating how to remove some weight elsewhere.
Read some blog that I cannot find again about reducing weight in the motor by changing parts to alu..
Question is, what parts can be exchanged for different materials except the most obvious ones..?
Can I for example replace heavy disk/plate holding gears for alu or even carbon without compromising performance?
According to the blog, up to 500g could be saved on a larger slightly larger hub motor..
Don't really care if u think it´s worth it or not , just wanna know what´s possible alright
I don’t know how feasible any of that is.
It requires a degree of mental exercise that only a person interested in implementing the idea for themselves would consider undertaking.
But if you can dig up and post a link to the blog, that would alleviate some of the brain strain and could lead to constructive comments.
It requires a degree of mental exercise that only a person interested in implementing the idea for themselves would consider undertaking.
But if you can dig up and post a link to the blog, that would alleviate some of the brain strain and could lead to constructive comments.
motomech
10 MW
I started out trying to build super stealthy bikes until I realized nobody cares.
If I was going to try to do it again I'd follow these tenets.
The bike doesn't have to be super lite or invisible, it just has to be something that when people look at it, they don't SEE it.
1) Start w/ a blk. or very dark bike and use Blk. wires exclusively.
2) The motor only needs to be slightly smaller than the brk. rotor/big chain ring to be hidden, so the Q100 is small enough. There most likely are better (Stronger, quieter, smoother) mini geared motors, but the Cute works ok and saves money to put into the battery.
3) No controller lights on the h.bars.
4) To hide the batt., it has to fit into a water-bottle shaped container that's not too big. The only way I could do that is to use Lithum Polymer custom fitted inside a spun alum Stanley single wall thermos. I could get 5 Ah.s. of 12S (44 V) inside for around 7-8 miles. But it was easy to carry another and swap them out for the trip home.
The vast majority of folks didn't realize it was an Ebike.
If I was going to try to do it again I'd follow these tenets.
The bike doesn't have to be super lite or invisible, it just has to be something that when people look at it, they don't SEE it.
1) Start w/ a blk. or very dark bike and use Blk. wires exclusively.
2) The motor only needs to be slightly smaller than the brk. rotor/big chain ring to be hidden, so the Q100 is small enough. There most likely are better (Stronger, quieter, smoother) mini geared motors, but the Cute works ok and saves money to put into the battery.
3) No controller lights on the h.bars.
4) To hide the batt., it has to fit into a water-bottle shaped container that's not too big. The only way I could do that is to use Lithum Polymer custom fitted inside a spun alum Stanley single wall thermos. I could get 5 Ah.s. of 12S (44 V) inside for around 7-8 miles. But it was easy to carry another and swap them out for the trip home.
The vast majority of folks didn't realize it was an Ebike.
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It took some heavy history digging but here it is
Xiongda 2-speed
Here, I share technical solutions that arised during the development of my solar-bike.
Thanks for that.
He posts here, you could PM him.
The thing is, it’s hard to imagine who’d put the effort in.
Those most keen to minimise weight will already be using RC motors.
The small group of people using hubs as mid-drives (to achieve large gear reductions more easily than is possible for RC motors), use mini motors, which don’t have much fat on them.
A 3.5kg motor like the XiongDa, sure, but weight weenies won’t touch this motor weight class even if they could shed half a kilo from them.
You were interested in a 2.5kg Bafang, which is sort of a large mini motor. Knocking half a kilo off that might start to interest people, but not enough for them to be bothered when they can buy a 2.1kg AKM-100H instead.
The candidate motor would need to have some hugely redeeming qualities to make it worthwhile. If you can find such a motor, you’ll get help with it.
He posts here, you could PM him.
The thing is, it’s hard to imagine who’d put the effort in.
Those most keen to minimise weight will already be using RC motors.
The small group of people using hubs as mid-drives (to achieve large gear reductions more easily than is possible for RC motors), use mini motors, which don’t have much fat on them.
A 3.5kg motor like the XiongDa, sure, but weight weenies won’t touch this motor weight class even if they could shed half a kilo from them.
You were interested in a 2.5kg Bafang, which is sort of a large mini motor. Knocking half a kilo off that might start to interest people, but not enough for them to be bothered when they can buy a 2.1kg AKM-100H instead.
The candidate motor would need to have some hugely redeeming qualities to make it worthwhile. If you can find such a motor, you’ll get help with it.
